As someone just finishing one of these potentially classified high end "poser" cars, I have to chime in. Michael's Prodigy will have everything that one would use to go fast on a road coarse, but it will never see a road coarse. It may do some cone racing, it will drag race, autocross, even RSE, but it will not do any road coarse's or top end events. And the reason is very simple, until a person has a car worth maybe north of 6 figures like the elite cars here are, they cannot judge someone for not wanting to risk wiping it out. I, like Tony, am a drag racer, and Michael is as well, and while we both have been in the other lane when we shouldn't, for the most part, it is a bit safer then a road coarse both to body and machinery. Even though we will have power to weight, and gearing to run 200MPH, We will not prove it, at least not on a road, maybe a dyno. Reason is very simple, I do not think a accident at that speed is survivable in a car not built (cage / safety wise) to do it, but it will be fun to know it can! Also insurance won't pay, and if you did live through a wreck, you lost 100 grand! And Prodigy won't see a road coarse, again simple, I do not think a accident at the potential speed it is capable of is survivable in a car not built (cage / safety wise) to do it. And we are not interested in climbing over all that **** and trying to drive a race car on the street, just so it can go to the track, And it that makes someone a poser or a *****, then so be it.

Additionally on these road coarse's, it is common place to get damage like Elky is talking about to the car from stones and stuff coming off other cars. You should see the E 55 Mercedes a customer of mine took to Sebring for track day. It is f__king pelted with stone chips, but hey, what the hell, it's only $100,000 car! And even though he can afford it, he still cannot stomach the thought of it being peppered again.

Could you just imagine your $100K ProTouring project you just finished after years of building getting peppered at the track? I am a painter, it cost me pennies to fix that ****, and it makes my stomach sink. How about sliding off a corner into the gravel, or worse, a wall? A nice soft wall, but a wall never the less!

See, what I notice, is 99% of these comments come from people that financially will never be pushed into the decision of weather or not to race, on a road coarse, their mega dollar PT car. So it is easy to cast stones knowing they are in no danger of that decision. it is much like opening the bid on a car on ebay that is worth $50K, and bidding the opening $1000 bid!

And what I most want to know, is what makes these judgmental buffoons think for one second these cars are not beat on once in a while. What makes on think that just because it is not on a road coarse, it does not get thrown around a bit, or that the 1000HP isn't used? You can look Charlie's eyes and know if you give him a back road, he's going to make a pass in any of his cars. I have seen video of Jody's old car getting all goofy in front of the house, I know damn well Michael will be checking his mirror often to see what he can get away with. And what makes someone think that just because it is not put on a road coarse, we do not enjoy the 14" brakes, or the independent suspension, or the creature comforts? We do not have to race it on a track to enjoy those features!

In reference to no PT cars at drag week. Why show up to a gun fight with a knife? Did you guy's see the wheel standing 8:50 Chevy 2 (s), 2 of them! Yeah, I am going to show up at a competition with a 10 / 11 second car in a 8 second class! NOT!

As a red blooded, testosterone filled, competitive Alpha male, I personally have a tendency to avoid competitions where I know in advance I am guaranteed to get my ass handed to me.

A few years ago, I was hanging with some of my customers, which happen to have money, and they play golf. It was easy to figure out if I could play golf, I could network through the mega dollar community. So I bought killer equipment, and tried my hand at golf. But see, I am a car guy, and I absolutely suck at golf. I tried, but it Ain't my thing. So I elect to stay off the golf coarse and not get my ass kicked, knowing I am not qualified for the competition. And yes, it is very much a competition, even though the players may say otherwise.

Personally, I do not choose to do things if I suck at it, it aggravates me. Much like watching wheel standing race cars with liscence plates run 8s, while I would try to compete with my 10 / 11 second PT Car, simply because it is not set up to maximize the quarter mile.

On the other hand, I am lucky enough to have another car that could do Drag Week, so there! Nana, Nana, Boo Boo.

Hey Race-Rodz,
I respect you more if you speak your mind and we disagree from time to time. It adds strength to our club.

I went to a lot of trouble to make my car different--That should be obvious. My car has a dent in the rear quarter and my front wheelwells are bulging ever so slightly from repeated tire rubbing. When I'm done driving my car into the ground, I will tear it apart and start over--again. And yes, those little orange cones are perfectly capable of scratching paint (who knew?) One of the reasons I am moving to the southwest is to have greater access to race tracks and open road events.

I prefer your clarification stating that track use scores extra points. That's a lot more accurate than "you must track your car or you are a poser". Extra points--I like that.

So, I don't disagree with your overall philosophy. I just have a real problem with anyone who demands track use. I'm all over that. Not because I am against racing or afraid to scuff my car, but because as a racer, I know that our hot rods make mediocre race cars at best. If racing is to be the primary goal, build a Miata Cup car a Challenge car or a Super Pro bracket racer. But if your platform is a 30's pickup or an old Camaro, it's a hot rod first. You're building that old pickup because you WANT a bad ass old pickup. Katz Tsubai's 64 Rivi is the perfect example. Not exactly the best platform for a race car, huh? It's a hot rod that races--not a race car.

Jody Bernard will show, through the use of traction control, that it is entirely possible to harness big power in a street car. He will lead the way there. It will (should) quiet a lot of the "big power is useless" rhetoric. That's big news!!

WOW, I can't wait for this. However most cars with traction control post better exhibition of speed numbers weather it be slalom, standing start, etc, with the traction control turned off. So it will be interesting to see no doubt. Still a cool idea, WOW! I am already behind the times!

Call me sensitive if you want..
But I cannot help but believe that when someone drops the "Poser" bomb it is meant to be inflammatory and insulting. It is almost like challenging ones manhood because you do not take your car to the track!
Even though I have many different interests in life I do not think it is possible to love and enjoy cars more than I do. So when someone
wants to label me as a second class citizen in the car world I take offense.

I think it is time to put up or shut up..ZZZZZZIIIIIIPPPPP
Lets lay them out on the table so we can see who really measures up!
:eek:
Next time you want to beat on your chest think about what you saw here today. :)
Scott

well said frank! :thumbsup:
we build a lot of high end street rods that are trailer queens for first few years but usually after the new wears off they get used!

tool?
 

What Frank and Steve said....



Scott(steemin) so what you are saying is "longest tool takes the pool?"

What movie was that from? "Last American Virgin"

Scott(steemin) so what you are saying is "longest tool takes the pool?"

What movie was that from? "Last American Virgin"[/QUOTE]
I think that you are right..

I had to inject some humor here.
The term "POSER" is an insult..(and it is meant to be insulting)
You might as well call me a Ricer..
I felt like I had to post up the ultimate "I am a real man" contest.

By the way I am also extremely competive as well..
I once finished 1st and 3rd in a circle **** contest.
These guys don't know what they are up against! :D
Scott

Wait, so what y'all are saying is "Poser" is a bad thing? :willy:
And here I am a self professed Poser-LOL
I have to agree with Cody's sentiments that if the word bothers you, you have issues. I took the name on after someone claimed anyone with 20" wheels was a Poser. As deep as I am in my car, I could care less what anyone thinks it is. When I first heard the word-Protouring, I associated that with a touring car, one that is driven and enjoyed on the road. Not one that has to be raced or is a PITA to drive because the suspension is too stiff. Even after over a year of being on forums associated with the term, I still feel much the same way. Like others have said, it is your car, build it to suit you. You would not let anyone dictate to you how to build your house or what to put in it, so why is your car any different. I try to read and learn about different set ups and feel I have learned a bunch this last year, but when I start spending my money, sorry, but I will do it my way. If that makes me a Poser then I will wear my DILLIGAF shirt at SEMA. :D
I will say this, if you put TTII's on your 1st gen camaro, then list it on ebay as a "Protouring" car, then you probably are a Poser. However, as long as you try to upgrade your car with some modern improvements, I feel you are as much a part of the club here as anyone else.

im the king poser around here. i have global west a-arms with airbags in them and 22s, what am i thinking :willy: wait, i don't care what anyone else says.

i think he was just taking jabs at everyone that wasn't there. he took it out on the supras also that said they were going to come dominate drag week. my buddy took his turbo truck and won the small block power adder class with it. there was a daily driven class for cars that ran a 12 i think. it sounded like a real fun event though and im going to build something to go next year, if not i'll just take my chevelle and show everyone what posing really is.

Slownova, you know Parish?

I have been reading this discussion all morning and I personal say do with it what you will. But to be truely honest I would love to some of the PT car to go out and just see what the car can do once. Not to prove anything but to be the stepping stone for others. You see I am on this site all the time just to get ideas about my car and what I would like but if others that have completed there cars for the most part dont try and show some of us young pups how its done then there are really no Pioneers of the sport.

Who cares about beating this guy and being faster then that one. If you have a
thousand horse power car how did you know? Obviously you have to strap it to a dyno to get those figures. The same thing goes for lap times and even Quarter mile, maybe 0-60 and braking. Not to prove a point but so we can see what your
ride does and try to achieve that same goal without all the guess work.

I'm only a step behind then.....lol
20's and bags

you still goin to KC goodguys?

That was my original point. It would be cool to see some of the cool cars that I see on here "participate", no one said you had to own drag week. I think it would suprise people on how well executed PT cars really are.

I think in order for most of us to "See what It'll do" will first require "Us" to get our cars done :yes:

I can agree with that. My car is not even close and I took it to the track and laid down a terrible 15.5 with nothing more then Dyno max Long tubes and no 3rd gear from my th350. I didnt realize that it was out until I was at 80mph and the car was still 300 feet from the end of the track and I was red lining.

Jim you mean :yes: yea ive known parish for probaully 3 years now and talk to him on a daily basis. trucks crazy for sure. :willy:

no, gotta skip goodguys, car had a tranny failure. :mad:

Awesome, you should have Jim stop by and say hi. I know myself and several others are big fans of what he's accomplished with that truck. :thumbsup:

will do.