For what it's worth...
 

I think there is no definite answer to the original question. Far too many variables involved. The cars can not be compared "apples to apples" because the PT cars are so unique , no two are the same. A true race car can only be equally compared to another in it's own class (they are almost carbon copies of each other). So if you can't compare the cars, how can you determine which would hold it's value better than the other? How many NASCAR teams are spending the cash on leather interior, sound systems, air conditioning or let alone even carpet ? And how many PT cars are running ZERO interior except guages and a seat, crappy paint jobs, quick fill fuel systems (real ones), anyway you get the idea.
Not that my two cents is worth it but there ya go....
Thanks for reading my rant,
Eric:cheers:

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Eric:

No Problem, I appreciate the dialog and you opinions. I'm putting some money away to start a new project, and I wanted to get an idea of the parameters of a PT car based on this group, and what was in their opinion the most valuable aspects of these cars. I for one enjoy these far more tat other kinds I have seen because of the latitude of options possible, and the fact that it is always evolving. Several years ago it would have been somewhat a rare site to see anything other than a 67-69 F-Body. Now there are many other cars having the, "Treatment" done to them. It's much more common to see cars up to and sometimes beyond the 1980's.

Anyway, I appreciate all who have contributed to this and helped me focus my own thoughts better.

BTW: Lateral-1 is Getting a Facelift, and a New name. More details will follow as soon as I have my renderings back and a few odds and ends finished.

Take care,

Ty

I say the market numbers are 95%-plus in favor of "toned down" street style (to use your words). Based on that percentage, there is, essentially, no market for "racing style" pro-touring cars. Building a racing style pro-touring car is therefore a greater investment risk.

That won't stop me from building streetfighters or helping friends with their projects. The thought of changing II Much to make it more visible at a car show makes me GAK in my Yogurt Burst Cheerios.

I think you're right.. nonetheless I get pretty regular offers to buy Penny.

I still say that this is a hobby, not an investment.. build what makes you happy and if you make money in the end just count that as a bonus.

:yes: There is no better advise than that. :thumbsup:

Well... let's put it this way: from a marketing point of view one should work to make one's product as attractive as possible, no?

I'm certainly not changing the car to win car show awards. However, there's no doubt that the car is very subtle, and much of what makes the car cool to me (and hopefully others) is that it is different. As I've learned, different hurts value.

So what am I doing to the car? So far, just the A/C (and it took months... word of advice: if you want A/C in your car, do it before wiring and paint). I redid the stereo because of the A/C, but it already had a stereo. Now the car boasts real working defrost, heat, and A/C, and a killer stereo (based on my iPhone). I can actually cruise in comfort now, and I've had the car out for some nice drives recently. I'd like to get to Sebring for a weekend of racing, but there's a new road race course right here in Orlando that I need to check out.

Wheel changes, and some trim and color changes are kind of in the works, though I really don't have funds for a full-boogie II Much v2 or some such.

As much as it might make the purists ruin their breakfast cereal :) , without selling the car, I have to find cool projects to do on it.

And remember, if you can't stand the thought of a more mainstream II Much, it's still for sale. Buy it and stop the madness!

:cheers:

jp

:question: Ok if II Much isn't sellable as it sits (even after adding the A/C) where does that leave cars like the runner up CAR '69 LeMans Road Racer Corvette, the '69 #6 Sunoco LS2 Fikse Wheels Camaro, and George Poteet's '68 NASCAR Charger? Those cars are very much "racing influenced". It's just very hard to accept that there is no market for these cars. Limited yes but when you're talking 100K+ isn't the market limited anyway?

Trade you.. :)

Thanks very much for the implied compliment, but I don't think my car belongs in that league. I'd love to play with those guys, but I can't/don't.

jp

So let's talk. :)

jp

lol... so tempting.. and I do write for a Nova magazine.. ;)

The irony is that Penny is more "race" that II Much.. it's just packaged in a more "mainstream" way.

When people want to buy her I generally end up working to talk them out of it.. "you do know there's no AC or heater.. right?" The door bars don't come off you know.. No, that's not a radio, that's a track computer. :lol:

Just like my earlier post....you have proved your car is a beast to be reckoned with and reliable. Every win adds to the cars history. I wouldn't be crazy about it on the street just because of the cage. However, it's a great street performer and mops em up on the race track. What more can a buyer ask for? I plan on doing the same. Not sure on you level but it will be respectable.

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ALWAYS make what you like.

I agree 100%.

As the Economy has changed, I try to keep an eye on, "Mainstream", vs., "Out There". I enjoy the damn things so much if it was up to me I'd do one both ways, but any way you slice it, putting together a nice '69 Camaro, PT car together is not something for the weak of pocket book. In economic uncertainly, I tend to take less risk.

I will buy and put together something I'm crazy about, with a touch of "Out There" blended in, that can be toned down if needed. When I see a car that someone has just poured their heart out and money out into a killer car and something happens to them financially, and they have to get rid of it, I really feel for them when they are looking at $50,000-$100,000 Loss, when at that particular time in their lives they are needing the money the most.

I always give this some thought when I start anything that's going to take $70k+ money. I know many people, "Get your enjoyment out of it", that said however, when there are other people involved I am responsible for, I don't think it is a bad Idea to know going in a possible "OUT" plan in case something happens.

If the Economy firms up, so will my wallet, even thought I know at this point things will be a $100k or more when things are done.

Thanks

TY O'Neal

Who said it's not "sellable"? Maybe the asking price is just too high. We are in a recession/near depression after all....


Yes, even in a good economy it is limited. And as mentioned above, we are not in a good economy.

Obviously the asking price is higher than buyers want to pay, or it would have sold. Of course that's true. In other words, the OP's premise seems to be on the money (pardon the pun): too much racing influence can hurt the value of your hot rod.

jp

There is more true beauty hiding in II Much's hood hinge/latch assembly than there is is most cars. It's a design conceived, fabricated and refined by the car's owner. Ditto on the front suspension, exhaust hangers and myriad other examples.

And there are people who appreciate this art form. There are people who can sniff it out from a casual "50 footer" glance. The know it when they see it.
The car's design elements were intentional. A reflection of the artist who created it.

The Mona Lisa's a hag! But she gets top billing. She has mainstream appeal. I'll pass, thank you.

Thanks Steve! Your opinion matters a lot to me. Makes my whole day. :woot:

jp

Mona is a Babe...you just need to squint.

With all due respect, I don't think it's a given that the "racing influence" is the reason for it not selling. It could very well just be the price. What was your last asking price, like $150k or 175k?

FWIW, I saw your car at SEMA 07 and absolutely loved it.

Send the prospects you turn down my way. I've got A/C and heat. :thumbsup:

Thanks! No, the current price is $115k.

I think that price is fair, but I realize as the car ages, it's value continues to decline. Oh well. FWIW, I'm having a lot of fun with the car, and my reason for selling the car (to build another one), might not have worked out so well. Life is busy these days with two active teenagers and all that entails. So just puttering around on the car, doing some "consulting", and the occasional fab job seems like enough for now.

jp

:yes: The car is a terrific example of a purpose built pro-touring car with a "road race" theme. The car is outstanding. Anyone who has any clue of what they are looking at can see the craftsmanship and detail. The car has the "look". :drool: I believe it's the economy and it's overall effect on every day life that is holding back a sale not the painted bumpers or the black wheels. It's a h3ll of a lot of car for 115K. I hope things work out for how ever you want them to John. :thumbsup:

To All:

I don't know if any of you read PHR, ;-) but there was a right up recently about a guy taking a standard Laguna and gave it the, "Racing" Pro Touring, look.

Here is the article, give it a read and bounce it around. I think the car looks really cool. I certainly think it would be more expensive from it's initial appearance than one would think. Now of coarse the Truth you find in the details, but in any event, someone who is in the market for a 100k+ car may be wanting A LOT of attention.

Anyway here is the link and the ideas;

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tec...ies/index.html

I'll have to admit, some are pretty clever.

Enjoy.

Ty

Not to get off track
 

But I know what you are speaking of John.

When I finished my car I was ready to sell, so I could move on and do the next one. Lots of ideas runnning around in my head. I found that after it was finished I have little to no time to build another. I spend most of my time tinkering and improving what I have....so I am with you on that one.

I've already found myself tweaking this or that from an aesthetics point of view. There are always improvements that can be made. It's going to take a while before I'm ready to build another. It's nice to go out and turn the key vs. lay on a creaper.

That price is very reasonable for that car I agree. :thumbsup:

But hey, sometimes things like your car not selling work out well and you just get to enjoy it for that much longer.

This is exactly what happened with me...Sold my car(s) to buy my first house back in the early 90s, thinking I would just jump in and do it again, and with work/family/etc, have not had time to devote to it until these last few years. It will take me a long time to get it done the way I want it, but when it's done I am not going to let it go and be without having any hobby car around to enjoy...For me, 80% of the enjoyment is building them....So buying a finished car won't scratch my itch...

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Steve:

Hyper-analyzing. Yes, your right about it, but I thought it would be interesting to get other peoples take on things. Whether my car "Gets" its money back or not is my kids problem as I'll be enjoying PT up in heaven. (Hopefully)

The Riv, (Roadhouse Riviera) which I got from my Grandfather, its paint and body work alone are twice what they paid for it new. I do think a lot of these cars were are enjoying and making, will be part of car history. I bet it was hard for the Guy's in the Sixties thinking the, "Trans Am", cars they were racing would be worth anything someday, or how about the original Grand Sport Vettes. In the late sixties-early seventies, were "Has Beens". Old technology, uncompetitive junk that was kept outside in many cases. Now look at them.

I find everyones opinions real insightful. If you go on Youtube and check out all the American cars being enjoyed in Europe it is amazing. There is something about the American cars of the 50's-early 70's that hit a passion in people all over the world. Not sure what it is, but I find I'm proud about how they have been kept and enjoyed all these years. There are a few from Russia that by our standards are very so-so, but over there, they are the Cats Ass of Cool.

Back to your comment, I guess when I don't have the pleasure or opportunity of driving the cars, they stay on my mind as part of my enduring passion for them. I think it's a mix of DNA, Testosterone, and Adrenaline, that cause my Hyper-ness in this area.

No excuses, just a fact of maybe being a car geek/gear head or ???

Take care.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Ty

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Thanks for the comment, Your Trans AM is or they definitely can be Great PT cars. The TA's and the Camaro's were about all there were back in the later 70's (Other than the Vettes) that still has the roots of the earlier cars. Look at the Mustang II's that came out. Ouch, Ford really lost their way on those I think. The "F" Bodies were the exceptions.

The old Nova's, Monte Carlo's, Chevelle's, Torinos, Grand Prix's, Comet's, Falcon's, Sebring's etc. etc. (The list is very long) were just absent other than some emasculated shells with just the name left on them. I had a 1979 T/A, and my Dad drove a 78 T/A, and yes those were and still are cars with visual and litteral PT/Hotrod/Kick Ass roots.

I just chose 1976 because at least GM went through a profound change in their styling and performance of 95% of there offerings. Even the Vettes of the mid 70's I think were lost and still are. Look at the price for the 74-79 vettes. They are still not thought much of.

My overly broad statement did not include the exceptions to the rule. that was a mistake on my part, no offense intended.

Ty