Ok, twin turbo big block.......:thumbsup:

I almost started wavering back to the Old School SBC after see the new short block DART is selling with thier SHP blocks. Then I ran the numbers again and I am back to the LS. Which really stinks cause I like the underdog..

The Dart SHP block is a great foundation. But as good as it is, the newer technology behind the LS series with thier efficiency, durability and ease of making more HP is really hard to beat. If I was not going BBC I'd be doing an LS motor. I have always wanted a big block and now is my chance to do one right. Next project will be an LS for sure though. The prices just keep falling too, bonus!
I say to each his own. Any one of the three can make good power and be a ton of fun. They all have thier place in the hobby.:cheers:

X2 well said. Additioannly I am seeing more and more Alum block avail for GEN big and small block. Even on the used market. If the Super mods and other classes move to LS platforms we could see the market fall out of Gen1 stuff.
Like Alum SBC 18 Degree.. on the cheap.. I am all over it]
I constantly troll RacingJunk.com for deals

I agree. There is alot of good stuff getting cheaper by the day for the old platforms. It was not too long ago that you could not touch a set of BBC aluminum aftermarket heads for under 3k. Now they are everywhere. But the LS stuff is following suit. It is all coming down with time. By the time I am ready to do another project the LS engines will be very affordable. They are not too bad now.

Good thing for us huh Eric???:cheers:
lol:thumbsup:

Yes it is. If the clock were turned back 5-10 years on BBC pricing for cool aftermarket stuff there is no way I could build this the way I am now.
But then again, naturally aspirated small blocks pumping out 550 plus hp were REALLY rare and VERY expensive. It's like anything else, time and competition in the market place bring prices down. Look what a new microwave cost when they first came out in the '70's to the mass market. VCRs, DVD players, CD players for our cars. Can you imagine paying close to $100.00 for a Sony Walkman? (That's with a TAPE player inside LOL). I am old enough to remember asking my parents for one and them saying something along the lines of "when hell freezes over" !:lol:
So now we have top quality parts available at prices that allow guys like me (on a budget) to go play with the big boys. To come to the party with a respectable level of power and reliability and on pump gas to boot!
I do believe the small and big blocks will always be around, but the LS is going to take full charge of the Chevy power end of the hobby. It is just a better mouse trap (no pun intended).:thumbsup:

I will stick with my set of GMPP 18 degree head set up, massaged over and flowing more than 325 cfm. Mated to a nice SHP block or little M 427-454. Just have to crunch the numbers on everything to make the best selection. Lookin at about 671 hp with current cam and 11:1 compression. But I'm gonna go with a smaller more tame cam and about the same comp. so in the ballpark of 600hp.

Do what makes you happy. and a mean muscle car idle makes me happy :hail:

If you include the possibility of an aluminum version of the LSx (probably NA only and possibly in restricted displacement), I would choose that.

Of the traditional SBCs, I'll keep my EFI 4-bolt 350 with AFR heads. I could see doing a 400 block with a 350 crank and keeping the good stuff that I already have, but going no bigger inside.

I don't particularly care for long stroke geometry or forced induction. I'll just look for a smaller car to put it in instead.


Norm

LSX all the way. It is popular to people on these web sites but overall you will still won't see that many. Just too good of a platform to start with.

I vote LS the prices are getting very affordable, I just purchased a complete LS-7 w/ all the accy. and oil lines for the dry sump and 7400 miles on it for $6500. off of one of the corvette forums I think it would be hard to match the power level of an LS-7 w a sbc for that much money. The weight of the LS motors is another advantage for handling and straight line performance, you don't need to make as much power if you're lighter to achieve the same performance level. I will have to disagree with Rodger about being able to match the torque of a BBC I have an iron ls motor w/ a Harrop blower that is making 750 lb/ft of torque peak and it makes 650 lb/ft @2300 rpm, most forced induction set-ups are going to make boat loads of torque.

SBC if I listen to my heart
LSx if I listen to my brain

BTW-
I'm building a DART LittleM 406 w/ EFi so I am biased:cool:

ls all the way
 

everyones going with the ls motors because the gm finaly took care of all the issues that all of the had.pull one apart and you will see why everyones doing it.myself personaly after just opening one up I sold all my old big and small block stuff.price out building the small block with the fuel injection and all new accesories on the front of the motor.alum heads ,oh and lets not forget the roller cam,and the roller rockers.how can you argue with 400 rearwheel hp.@only 4 lbs of boost out of a 5.3 and still 20mpgs.dollar for dollar you just can't beat the ls motor.
http://i643.photobucket.com/albums/u...our2009018.jpg
:D

what the heck is that awefull plastic injection stack look alike you have on top of your engine... it just looks wrong... the picture just screams to heaven that either the blower, or the stacs are FAKE..

The blown SBC will cost more.. make less power and get worse mileage.. and weigh more.

Other than that though... lol

Just kidding.. but seriously, the factory EFI stuff is a snap compared to the aftermarket and replacement parts are easy to find, even i the middle of nowhere.

only true to a point.
 

starting from scratch you can make as much power as much driveability and as much fuel economy from a SBC but unless you are building a serious engine its just easier and cheaper to do the el es jaun ..

the statement you made is ONLY true when comparing a stock style vs stock style setup

yes a carbed sbc vs a efi ls1 is going to lose out

but when building with aftermarket heads ... aftermarket cams aftermarket efi etc you can do anything with a sbc you can with a ls1

the ls1 has the advantage on milder combos where you are not going to change out the heads going to leave the stock efi etc

But if you are looking to build something wilder 400 + cubes aftermarket efi turbo or supercharged etc 550 + horsepower then he sbc can hold its own all day long with the aftermarket parts that are available out there.

the only reason the el es jaun in my opinion wins out is for a driver with mild performance upgrades you can buy 5.3 drop outs complete with auto transmission and the efi for around 900-1400 bucks all day long if you look and by time you add everything you need to install it etc your sitting around 3 k for a late model efi drive train ..

with forced induction but stick a blower on that bbc and you now got 1000 pound feet of torque

I'd like to see some kind of equal comparison(s) on a couple different levels.

Check out airflowresearch.

383 makes 500 hp at 5500rpm

stock ls makes 530hp at 6500rpm.

I'd take the 383, better torque and would beat that ls all day long.

LS better technology, all around, no doubt.

I realized that I typed that last one and have not even considered proper displacement. I was thinking off the top of my head that I could get a 383 with roller cam and afr heads for an ls1 with afr heads?

Would this be an equivalent price to price setup?

Open up the LSA on the 383 cam setup to rev to 6500 like the afr setup and you are making 550+ easy and the tq curve would be so much juicier.

The small block may make more power or torque but the LS will almost always be more efficient. I don't know this to be true in all cases but I think if you compare the cost of each HP per dollar I believe the LS will be cheaper in the long run because of the edge it has with efficiency. It is just a better design overall. But that is not to say there are not plenty of high HP small blocks out there. It is a proven design and has been a staple in hot rodding for decades. No one will dispute how well it can do. But back to the HP per $ and the LS may come out on top.
If you are going by just displacement then how do you compare? Stock VS stock? Say a 327 VS a 5.3 LS because they are close in size. Or a LS6 VS a LT1 350, the LS6 was factory rated at 405 HP in stock form out of the ZO6. The LT1 was never rated that high. Throw a cam and good set of heads at the LT1 and you will get there, but do the same thing to the LS6 and it will beat the LT again. So how do we do an equal comparison?
One way would be to use all factory parts, even the GMPP heads and cams. The LS will still come out on top.
I am not an engine builder or expert by any stretch of the imagination. So if I am wrong here please go easy on me.:lol: :cheers:

Not sure if you've made up your mind or not, but to give you an idea of what my L92 that I'm putting into my 68 Acadian (Nova) will cost. It should be close to 560 - 570 hp when I'm done, which is what you were asking. I'm keeping the VVT so it might cost me a bit more. I'm using the Mast Motorsports controller and cam set up. http://www.mastmotorsports.com/page....Packages&id=70 It runs about $2500. It includes their SS cam, valve springs and their controller. For an extra $299 you can get the software and usb cable to program the controller your self. For another $500, you can get a controller that is already set up to add a turbo down the road. I'm going to add the Speed Tech/Stainless Works long tube headers (about $1400 but are the polished ones, $950 not polished, I'm using those as they are designed for the Speed Tech Subframe). I also have the new FAST 102mm intake ($800) and will be adding a 102mm Nick Williams DBW throttle body ($500). You can use the stock truck intake, which apparently flows better than the stock car intake. This should put me around the numbers that I hope to get...which seem to be around the same that you want.

I know Frank was doing a L92 deal where he replaced the VVT and put in a new cam and springs and a stock LS3 intake. They were making 525hp so as you can see...doesn't take much.

I know I voted for LSX but at the end of the day....you need to choose the way you want to go. I decided to go LS because the last few sbc's I did...I was constantly playing with the carbs, timing, etc. I'm sure part of it was cause everytime I adjusted something, I made matters worse. I really like the idea of having big power, good fuel mileage, reliability, etc. But I decided that's how I wanted to go. If you like the old school looks with the charger...than do it. It's your car...you need to be happy with it. Good luck with the decision if you haven't already made up your mind.

Lsx !

Not even close the 400 all day long and twice on sunday!

I tried to vote for a 427 Ford side oiler but the option wasn't on the poll...... I'm three years late anyway :lol:

I voted LS but you cant really compare the SBC to the LS, sure there both chevy V8's, but they do everything completely different, power delivery, torque curves, sound, Idle characteristics, weight, length and so on

my car (Plain Jane) SBC powered 2011
http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/x.../Photo0016.jpg

my car (Plain Jane) LS powered 2012
http://i752.photobucket.com/albums/x...p/IMG_0021.jpg

Now that.....is a radiator hose.:cheers:

I voted LSX. :thumbsup:

I know i'm in the minority here on this site, but I still love the gen 1 smallblock. LS motors def have the advantage in the hp department, but to me the gen 1 engines look better and sound better. I personally love the sound of a high compression, cammed, gen 1 smallblock.

LSX

http://www.homebuiltairplanes.com/fo...ll-forward.jpg

Just an update I’m putting the 400 sbc in an 85 camaro. And I am going to get a 427 short block from dart and put the supercharger on it. I must say things have been going a lot slower than I hoped. I’ve got big ideas [dreams] and empty pockets but it’s getting there

What can a sbc do better than a ls. I can't think of anything.

Microwave popcorn or hot air, ls if you want to drive it sb 400 if you want to work on it.

With this build an LS seems like a no brainier. When I bought my engine 3 years ago, I went with a TPI/SBC (tune port) for a few reasons:
1. I wanted fuel injection without breaking the bank.
2. The price of a used LS engine was considerably higher than a TPI SBC
3. I had to be able to find headers to fit without them being a $2000 custom set.
4. The difference in price for the wiring harness and computer from SBC to LS was considerable.

Today, none of these are issues. Everything is available and priced the same. I gave $1100 for a running TPI engine out of a Vette. You can find a good running LS for that now.
The headers, for my car (a 77 Impala, Project Impulse) are still not available and probably will not ever be. For a 1st or second gen Camaro, they are available all day long.

When the LS was introduced, it was dubbed "the next 50 year engine". The SBC was a 50 year engine. So the question becomes, do you want an engine designed for the next 50 years or the last 50 years.

Last thoughts, pull the pan on a SBC and an LS. Take one look at the main caps and see what you think. The LS engines are designed throughout to run higher power, and still remain reliable and streetable for 100G miles or better.

my 2 cents... I spent a lifetime supporting the SBC... absolutely love the engine... and after much internal dialog i am going LS...

Now if an aluminum block Gen1 SBC were affordable i would be leaning in that direction... 18 degree, hell yeah... but since that is cost prohibitive compared to the LS... its LS all the way for me...

if you want around 500 HP or below and money is tight SBC is the way to go...