Also I wanted to add that when I block body filler and primer I usaully use a one gallon and 5 gallon paint stick. They really seem to come out a lot flatter than the durablocks and are pretty much free! They still have slight flex to them which really helps on curved surfaces like roofs!

How do you fix the low spots? Just add more primer and reblock?

Great thread! the paint job is nothing more than the reflection of the quality of prep work. it looks like there are some talented paint & bodymen on this forum.

Good luck with your paintjob.... KT

Instead of using the paint stick as a bolck, have some lexan cut to the same size and thickness. It's stiffer,flatter and will last a life time.

you could also make whatever length you need.. great idea...

if youve preformed your body work teadiously then you shouldnt have that problem. if you do, then i would suggest some metal glaze and a spot prime..

[QUOTE=GM Muscle;226838]first and foremost you want a straight, flat canvas. body work and prep are going to be the key to straight car then the paint comes. if you think about it logically, think about a million tiny balls of paint. as you spray, you are "stacking" these particles across the panel. since you have reducer and they are liquid they will melt into each other but not completely they still dont lay out 100% flat. layer after layer will build up and while it may look flat youve actually created a very mellow ripple.

Great example GM. I have never painted a car but that puts a visual perspective on the process. Hopefully I will be able to help out on my car when it comes time to prep the body for paint. (I have put in many hours helping in the area's I am capable with like cleaning, cabinet media blasting, etc.) I hang out at the shop watching and trying to learn all that I can.

Ron
1969 Firebird, 4-speed Coupe

once you get the car ready for paint, id clean it as best you can a few times over.. its nice to get in all the knooks and crannies with an air blower and a tack cloth. then tape her up tighter than dick's hatband. i usually backtape every hole with 2" then stretch the paper as tight as i can and trim it out with my pocket knife(razor would be better) the less paper you have flapping, the better. the paint will dry on the paper and when you shake it on the next coat with the air coming out of the gun. it could come off in your paint causing "trash". also try to avoid and folds in the paper and if you do have them, tape them shut. the paint will float around in those pockets and dry up.. then on your next coat you blow them out of the pocket and they end up causing more trash. also dont forget that 75% of the trash in a paint job comes from the painter himself. cloth and dust off your clothes, hair, etc. a paint suit isnt only for personal protection. using the right reducer will help reduce trash and nibs but all theses little precautionary steps really add up.

How many coats of paint does a car get or need. The thinner the coat the better, right?

I did not think about the paint coming off the paper.

Thanks,

Ron
1969 Firebird, 4-speed Coupe

it all depends on the color, paint line, painter, etc. i use ppg deltron and usually 4 coats. just mix it and spray it like the p sheet says.

But in general is thinner paint better than thicker paint when it is applied to the car?

it would be better to do 4 medium to light coats than to do 2 heavy coats if thats what you are asking..

Yes, thanks GM.

Paint thickness is measured in mils or thousandths of an inch. OEM paints are typically 4 to 8 mils thick. With basecoat/clearcoats, the basecoat is approximately 1 to 2 mils thick, which is approximately the thickness of a piece of typing paper. The clearcoat is about 2 to 4 mils thick. The primer is another 1 to 2 mils.

If a panel has been repainted, paint thickness will increase. If too much paint is already on the vehicle, it may have to be removed prior to refinishing. Paint buildup should be limited to no more than 12 mils. The OEM finish and one refinish usually equal just under 12 mils. Exceeding this paint thickness could cause cracking in the new finish. Chemical stripping or blasting would be needed to remove the old paint buildup.

I hope this answers your question.

In short when applying base coats, your coats are not heavy wet coats, they should be medium coats, repeated until you have achieved coverage, and a consistant look. What I mean by that is you have to be cafeful when spraying any metallics so that you do not end up with Tiger Stripes, or Paint Mottling.

Clear coat is to be sprayed medium to wet coats, but this is where the fine line comes in, you want to spray clear to the point of running, but not running. You have to push the limit.
Reducers and spray technique play a huge roll in painting a car or any part of a car, practice, practice, and good quality paint are key to having a great paint job.

The idea of clear coating a car, letting it dry, resanding it in 600/800 grit to flatten the flutter out of the panel, is the way to achieve a stunning paint job. It can be done with out this process, but when you are painting a custom paint job IE: Kandy, Metal Flake, Crushed Glass, it is a must to level the paint out for that show room finish.

The reclear will take a few more hours, and cost more, do to the added hours of sanding, masking and painting. But it is well worth the end result.

Just my 2 cents.

Aaron

agreed... but i wouldnt let the 12mil thing scare you.. its like any text book.. thats the standard for the cars that follow gravel trucks and drive long hauls at night with grasshoppers and have little kids with bicycles around them! haha.. its just like anything else in this world.. if its special, take care of it and it will last! you also have to concider on primers and stuff that you are sanding a lot of it back off to level it out..

The 12mil part, is straight out of the "Auto Body Repair Technology" text book. Is it the right answer, No. But it gives the layman the idea of what the paint film thickness is compared to factory specs.

My company is in the buisness of doing custom paint jobs and we are never really to concerned with the thickness of the paint, not to say that I do not keep it in the back of my mind while laying out a paint job.(too much paint can change the gaps and fitment that you have worked so hard on) When you are doing a Metal Flake job you have no choice but to load the paint on to achieve the desired finish, when you consider all the levels of paint products on a custom, it far exceeds the recomened paint film thickness set out for you in the text book.

This thread started off as is it possible to remove all of the orange peel, the answer is YES, but it will take some time and serious skill. Wet sanding a 100 dollar paint job is one thing, but sanding out a paint job with thousands of dollars in paint material alone takes skill, and the straightest sanding block you can find or make.

Sanding the car is only one step, once that polisher is in your hands thats a new game all together. Watch those EDGES!!!

For all those that are in the trade or just doing it yourselves, the blocking process before paint is the key, the more times that you have your eyes and hands on the panel the straighter it will be.

Here in the shop we switched over to Sherwin Willams paint, from PPG a few years ago. I have used most of the major paint manufactures over the years and not trying to sell you, but the Sherwin line has come along way. Most important product that everyone should look into is their High Build primer
"P30".Unbelieveable product. Lays down smooth and dries to a glossy finish. Having a high build that dries to a glossy finish allows you to see your work just as if it was clearcoated.

Well my fingers are tired, too much sanding today, so thats all you get for now.


Cheers

Aaron

Considering orange peel, is it best to leave a small amount that is not so noticeable or to go ahead and spend the time and money to get the orange peel free paint job?

Will other blemishes show up in the paint if there is no orange peel?

well put

you need to differentiate between texture and orange peel. texture is what you would see in a new factory car. orange peel will look like... well, the peel of an orange. its a lot worse situation that just texture from spraying.

honestly if the painter is decent there shouldnt be any "orange peel" you may notice a tad bit of texture but look at any factory car, they have texture but are shiney when going down the road and no one complains.. if you have the time to wetsand and polish the entire car then by all means go for the show finish. if you plan on parking at walmart and local diners i wouldnt waste my time. i would make sure the car is super straight before paint, make sure the painter took his time, and denib any trash nibs then drive it. the first time some one door dings your 100hrs worth the sanding and buffing your going to have a heart attack so just make sure its straight and shiney.. show car finishes arent for cars that will be driven everywhere...

what color you go with will also make a difference. red, yellow, white(brighter colors) are going to really hide alot of flaws and imperfections in the clear. darker colors are really going to show them. you just have to decide what level of perfection youre going to be satisified with and go from there. determine whether this is going to be your show car or your baby.. or just a driver for you to enjoy..

You're right, that P30 is amazing, also if you haven't noticed,it's very flexible,feathers like nothing else and it's so easy to sand,but I guess that's what you'd expect form $400+ per gallon primer:D

i think i need to try this stuff.. sounds too good to be true. how is the hold out (i.e. shrinking, etc)

You are right the P30 is not cheap, but it is worth every penny.


"SpectraSeal Color Sealer is a premium quality 2K-urethane primer-sealer that utilizes state of the art Ure-Flex™ Technology to provide the ultimate in performance, versatility, and productivity. The P30 system offers seven FPC colors that can be used by themselves or in combination with each other to provide an unlimited color pallet.

SpectraSeal provides the best in gloss holdout, resistance to sand scratch swelling, easy sanding, and does not require the addition of a flex additive for plastic parts repair/refinishing. From underhood topcoats, direct to OEM E-coat, direct-to-metal recommendations, plastic repair process, to typical collision repair scenarios, the P30 system is the most versatile product on the market."


If you are not using this product I recomend a change. IMO


Aaron

well in order for our shop to be under "warranty" we have to use ppg from start to finish. but i think im going to try this product out on my side jobs.

I was patching a quarter panel on a car today. Man, I didn't realize how thick all the paint and primer was, it was about as thick as the metal I was welding in.

Thanks for the information. You guys don't relize how much I have learned from this one thread.

My car is originally Antique Gold. I want to go back with some sort of Gold color. Should a lighter color primer be used with Gold?

I only plan on driving on sunny days and hopefully not get caught in the rain. Leaving my car in the parking lot a Walmart is not an option. I will never leave my car unattended and I will always have one eye on her (do I sound crazy or what?)

Thanks.

I'd use gray or buff color primer if going with gold

we always use grey then use what ever value shade sealer the paint calls for. value shade two is almost white and value shad 7 is almost black. you can mix them to acheive what you need..

At the moment the car is in black epoxy. Will this have any type of effect on the Gold color?

Stupid question here: will the black epoxy stay on the car and be under the primer when the blocking begins?

I want to have a light Gold color and not a darker bronze color. Anyone have a good Gold color paint codes?

Thanks.

yes, most of that black primer will stay,I'd spray a few coats of high build primer for blocking,epoxy does not like beeing blocked:lol: and you'll know it when you start sanding on it:yes: spraying tintable sealer is also an option,

as for the color,I'd take a trip to your local paint store and check out their color chip books, IIRC,2000 Honda has a very nice candy-like deep gold,it was on their hybrid Insight

Tintable sealer? Tell me more please.

I have not done any research on Gold paint colors or codes but will start in the near future. I will look into the 2000 Honda color, thanks.

Thanks.