Tyler you better get in here quick and clean up this mess...

I ran out of popcorn, I be right back.....

Curtis,

If people don't want to be labeled as liars - then they shouldn't lie in the first place. If someone asks a direct question - is then given a direct answer - which is not true... then what would we call this? The customer asked if the parts were in stock - he was told YES... and they weren't. That is lying in my book. Or at least - that's what I've always been taught...

Funny thing is - he'd probably still have gotten the order even if he'd have said - No, sorry, I'm having some supplier issues (or whatever) right now - but I'll ship them just as soon as I can!

Once you loose the trust... game over.

Greg,

Like I said it sounds like lack of communication on Tylers part to me. Unless I missed it there really isn't any proof that Tyler lied. It appears to me that it has been assumed that he lied because the parts didn't show up right away. Was it just a late night shipping error in which those items where missed? The guy is working two jobs. We are only hearing only one side of the story. Like you I only know what I've read here, but I'd like to give Tyler the benefit of the doubt till I know both sides....just like I would any other member of our community. If you think he has lied then that's fine. You are entitled to your opinion. You have to do what's right for you.

:captain:

I was talking about small businesses. Its pretty obvious a company like ATS/Prodigy/Fesler isn't going to stock a warehouse full of parts they offer for sale on their website.

As would I, but these problems happen with small business's. The key is communication, and apparently the ball was dropped and continues to be. If this thread isn't addressed, I don't see this being good for ATS.

Some sort of damage control might be good. :_paranoid

yea no kidding but tyler has to know about this oh well it's his baby

Heres the PM with the date, I guess I was wrong. Its been longer then 5 weeks. The last he was logged in here was 8/25. Hes been posting on pro touring though.
Teetoe_Jones's Avatar
Teetoe_Jones Teetoe_Jones is offline
Lateral-g Supporting Vendor

Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: La La Land, CA
Posts: 570

Default Re: Hey
07-09-2009, 01:54 PM
Oil pans are back in stock.

Tyler
If anyone would like to see any other PMs let me know.

All I can say is if there is smoke there is fire. Between the Festler title issue and threads like this comming up over and over it sure would give me 2nd thoughts of ever wanting to deal with him.

you act like your his father with all the excuses spiff.
tyler can respond for himself if he chooses to

Oh my...how small of you. In no way am I acting like his father or making excuses. ALL I have done is is state that I personally find it hard to believe that Tyler would intentionally lie. We are only getting one side of the story and I feel that until we hear from the accused we will not have the entire story. People are often quick to knee jerk or jump on topic just to sling a little mud. Don't be that guy. Why don't you try keeping an open mind and avoid making comments that make you look like you're being a dick till you have all the facts. You haven't seen me bash camaro2nv or any other member here. Many of those who have posted in this thread are people that I have spoken to on the phone or met and interacted with. They are not just an Avatar and some script to me and even though we may have a different opinion on an issue I still respect them.

I too have been wondering why Tyler hasn't posted in this thread. From what I've seen in the past he will only let things go only so far before jumping in. Once he does post it always seems to be game over when he posts his side of things. I am not defending Tyler in anyway or acting like his father. Rather I am just stating what I've seen happen in the past. Late last night I finally heard from Tyler. To avoid being viewed as "Tylers excuse maker" all I will tell you is that I doubt he is near a computer and that he may not know the heat level of this thread. That's not an excuse..it's just a hunch.

I fully RESPECT anyone who posts their opinion or share's the good, bad and ugly of an experience with our community and you will never see me bash that person for doing so. After all that is what Lateral-G is all about.


FOXTROT UNIFORM

Well I sure cant wait to hear his side also and what it could be. Ive posted a couple PM's that prove that what Im saying is true! Something tells me posting the rest wont help?
As for him being away he has posted on Pro Touring:_paranoid . As days go on and Fedex doesnt seem to be showing up anytime soon the heat rises. Man Im getting PISSED! There was such a simple fix to this! Its just that when I PMed him about the fix, his first words were " Your welcome to return it but theres a 20% restocking fee" Nothing like getting hit with a $100.00 fee for someone not holding up their side of the bargain!

I too have been wondering why Tyler hasn't posted in this thread. From what I've seen in the past he will only let things go only so far before jumping in. Once he does post it always seems to be game over when he posts his side of things. I am not defending Tyler in anyway or acting like his father. Rather I am just stating what I've seen happen in the past. Late last night I finally heard from Tyler. To avoid being viewed as "Tylers excuse maker" all I will tell you is that I doubt he is near a computer and that he may not know the heat level of this thread. That's not an excuse..it's just a hunch.






Good point Curtis,
Its only been a coulple of days (8/25) since this thread started. I would not expect anyone to sit in front of a computer full time lurking at posts. Ex-specially since he's not a full time vendor anymore. If they are, they have way to much time on there hands.

I too would be upset if I where in your shoes.

I am sure there is some sort of reason behind it, but it is suppose to be about customer service first. As the owner of a New Company with a new product line, I have run into the unknown issues. It is unavoidable, and I have been appreciative of my customers understanding. Luckily, it has only been very small issues or delays. Hopefully, this issue will be resolved in a way that everyone is happy.

The restocking fee is a bit out of hand with out an explanation. Was it not in stock, and a special order for the retailer, so he doesnt want to eat the fee for the cancelled order? Communication is key, but fairness is most important.

On the Drop shipping note.. Classic Industries is now selling my line of product, and on their website states it is Out of Stock, allow adequate shipping time. This is because they do not stock our items in their warehouse, because we drop ship for them.

That may be something that the larger business's do, and the smaller ones should adopt. They process their order, and I give them the confirmation of a shipping date.

Alright I'm going say something in the middle of this pointless discussion. The reason I think topics like this are pointless is your never going to get to any kind of conclusion. If Tyler got on here and took his lashings for whatever he has done or not done, is that going to solve anything? There are 2 sides to every story. I'm not choosing sides I'm just sick of seeing more and more people think it is OK to bash someone before they have done all they can to investigate the problem, good or bad. People bitch about shipping and parts that show up not how they expect, even before they contact the vendor they just post away. Then come to find out the Original basher just miss understood or ordered the wrong part. I have been on both sides of the fence with these issues and they really get no where, even if your Mother Theresa, or Charles Manson you cannot prove either side.

Sure Tyler has been through the ringer with some tough times and his customer service I'm sure has slipped from what it used to be. Heck the guy moved from Las Vagas to LA to get another full time gig, to survive and is doing ATS on the side, while relying on GM parts suppliers who's stability is questionable day to day. Have you seen how much the price of Corvette hubs have increased in the past year? Supply and demand, the price has gone through the roof to the Point that the ZR1 hubs are considerable option at 300 bucks each so there must be some demand.

Either way at the end of the day, if the oil pan gasket is all that held you back on your time line to get it installed before the baby, then drive down to your dealership and buy the 30 dollar ( I think it is ) gasket. Maybe Tyler thought he had it on the shelf when he sold it to you on the phone and went to fill your order and found an empty bin. Should you have to do that? NO WAY, is 30 bucks cheaper then a restocking fee? ( I think so let me take my shoes off :D ) We get parts in my shop all the time that I have to work on to make work like they were supposed. Could or Should I have sent them back, YES SIR, but the show must go on so we fix it. Or maybe he was totally descieving you to rip you off. But at least you got the main part you needed and could do something. If you do anything with cars you will find lots of people sell crappy stuff everyday. Some companies sell crappy stuff for 100's of years and make tons of money, will those parts ever make it on my car or my customers, ONLY ONCE.

I send Tyler pm's and emails and I never hear an answer and I have his 50/50 project sitting in my shop. Is he avoiding me, I doubt it or I'm going to have pretty nice tube chassis camaro. But we are all busy and drop the ball from time to time.

Camaro2nv we have spoken on the phone a few times and I'm not trying to defend anyone. Apparently you should have bought an Autokraft pan, and motor mounts. ( Just stating matter of factly ) But if at the end of your project this is the worst story you have tell from your build, You are doing well. Quite Well.... CAN I GET AN AMEN....

Moderators, could we have a special forum for people who just want to rant and bitch about valid or invalid points. I come to this site to see the cars and builds and join togther with other people who share the same addiction, but does anybody need to get on here just to rant about someone or some vendor in the open discussion? Maybe I'm alone on this but I'm sick of seeing members and moderators start thread to bitch and then turn into pointless beauty shop drama. Things happen and we all make mistakes, some intentional and some unintentional.

IN CLOSING, If I wanted to hear all this drama I would listen to all the stories my wife tells me everyday after work about how this person is 2 faced and this girl did this to that girl and Blah blah blah blah blah blah.............


If you don't like what I said, SORRY, I put my size 15 foot in my mouth quite often, just don't start a thread about it......:D

AMEN BROTHER:thumbsup:

LOL.....this is about the cleanest forum on the net and these threads usually are deleted. Should they be when there is a valid point? I hate to see a vendor protected by a website just because they fund the owner. If there is a valid complaint, then I want to know about it so I don't spend my hard earned money with that vendor. Should a dog that's not in the hunt have a word in the discussion like you and I? :D It's a gray area. At the end of the day when I make a mistake, I own up to it and fix it. Everyone makes mistakes, it's how you handle them.

Maybe this should just get locked for now and once Tyler responds (if he responds) then open it up again. Not choosing sides but this is going no where until we hear both sides of the story.

Just my .02

I agree 100%. I am at the start of my build and knowing how the vendors handle themselves will make a big difference in where I spend my money.

I not sure I agree with your philosophy. I don't see this as a pointless discussion. As a consumer, a HUGE benefit of the internet and a web site like this one is people with a common interest and goals can learn from each other.

One of the last thing I want to do is put myself in a position were I'm dealing with somebody that going to put me through the ringer. So if these discussion can avoid another member from going through the same serious, than this is just as beneficial as knowing the experience our members had with different control arms........

I think Camaro2nv has made a case for himself, just my opinion.

I'm not choosing sides here either, and I understand vendors don't want people just throwing up threads as soon as they aren't happy or don't get a response within 24 hrs from someone..... but this poster seems to have been more than patient and has provided what looks to be pretty detailed and damning evidence to support his beef.

These are exactly the type of posts I WANT to see about vendors when a problem like this happens. If you have a complaint, back it up and support your case.

Again, I am not siding with anyone - I almost sent my car to Tyler for him to finish last year and had some really good discussions with him - but members need to know what to expect based on others' ordering experience with these paying vendors.

Like I said I know both guys and can and never will know the story, I don't have a dog in the fight.

All I'm saying is, what does all this prove? Can we know for sure That Tyler lied to him? Or was there just major communication issues. There have been some pretty substantial judgements made about peoples character. Does Tyler have to get on here and defend himself? If the Internet did not exist would anybody approach anybody like they do on a forum in real life? I would hope not.

If it will help I have an extra oil pan gasket sitting in my back room you welcome to have for "free". Maybe I look at Lateral-g as my Disneyland, but the reason I like this site is because it is not like the others.

I think alot of the people are focusing on the lying part... Sometimes things happen and it isnt on the shelf like it should be.. I seriously doubt it was a lie... When the realization that the part wasnt there, perhaps a heads up or notice would have been the thing to do... Scratch the lying part and focus on the customer service part. Definitely lacking, and I dont think anyone can argue that point...

Not absolutely sure the full story, but waiting Months is too long... Missing parts without notification is wrong. No call back is wrong. P.M. without Responses is Wrong. Quite frankly, charging a restocking fee on an incomplete order is wrong, unless it is a special order scheduled to be delivered in a stated time.

Hell, I had two special orders that I returned the customers money in full, because they fell on hard times. Also had a couple of damaged kits that I replaced at my cost even with questionable cause of damage, because the customer didnt verify the content at delivery.. I would rather endure a little bit of expense to have a happy customer, than give a negative experience.

I dont know if anyone in here is calling out character...If they are, business is business, and outside relations is totally something else.. We all go home and seperate ourselves from our work, business, or career if we are lucky. Personally that doesnt work in my case. I have my contact number, and I am available 24/7. Believe me, some take advantage..LOL

Heres the last PM I got from Tyler
OK, if you read the part about filling back orders that tells you that if he had back orders for gaskets then he knew that the part was not in stock when he said it was. That right there gives it away.
Rodger, I wont go into your post and break it down line by line. I will just say this, Ive received four PM's from other members about problems with ATS. For some reason they didnt want to post, maybe their waiting for parts, I dunno. But I will say if there would have been other posts like this one I wouldnt have ordered from him to start with! Thats why we have sites like these. So we know what Parts, Vendors are good. Now if its keep getting swept under the rug then no one will know.
Those who know me know Im not here to bash anyone just because. I didnt "jump" to anything, I waited for weeks.
As for going to buy a pan gasket and fittings.
1. I didnt get the part until a couple weeks ago.
2. I assumed it was just a pan gasket so the part would follow soon, maybe a week.
You know the crazy part is. I paid extra for this setup. I didnt try and get a deal or skimp. In the end I got a pan that has been cleared over rust and Im still out parts.
I have to go change the baby,lol. :cheers:

If we lock it then Tyler can't respond...............

Not sure how you can say it isnt going anywhere.. There is a healthy debate here on whether or not this type of information should be shared. To be honest, it appears he has representation on here, and I am sure this thread is known about by now..

Only a couple of people have made Claims, and more have stepped up in defense. So, it does appear to be fair so far.

As far as Tyler, from what I've read it seems that Tyler is being called out and he hasn't responded which starts to raise some doubts. I can understand when parts get backordered and that, with Tylers new schedule, he's backed up but to NOT RESPOND AT ALL is unforgivable in my book.

Rodger, whenever I have a question you respond to me in less than 24 hours no matter what you are doing. That is the responsible thing to do and is one of the major factors in why I chose you as the person to take on the build we currently have going on. Your customer service is impeccable. I've known you for a few years now so I have a fairly intimate insight into your personal life and I know that it is every bit as hectic as Tylers so for people on here to claim that his misfortune is the reason why there is no communication is BULLSH!T!!!

I want to hear what TYLER has to say about this and Feslers issue, I've heard a few stories about Feslers issue but I want to hear it from TYLER!!!

I'm not accusing him nor excusing him. I just want to hear the truth because there have been some pretty harsh claims thrown his way and I've not heard any resolve to any of these or any claims by him that would refute otherwise. If I've jumped the gun and put forth an accusatory tone in my post then I apoligize. That is not my intent. I just want to find out if the claims that have had no response, publicly or privately, are true or not.

John

This thread is done..

It's not going to turn into a general pissing match.


If either ATS or the thread starter want to add to it they can contact a mod...

To the members of Lateral-G.net and to Steve Norton-

You are all very much correct about all you’ve said regarding ATS and our customer service and product delivery.
While we have not ever shut down as a business, we have had every issue known to man thrown our way since November of 2008 when it comes to getting ahead in this game.

We did tell Steve we had the pan in stock because we did. I did not have the gasket in stock and I knew it, I just figured I’d get it from my dealer in Vegas in a reasonable time frame. When I order from them they wait until they have all the items in stock to ship my order; if they are missing 2 out of 20 gaskets, the order sits. I still owe Richard Farmer, EVS motors, Jeff Thomey, and Classic Industries gaskets/fittings.

It costs money to run a business; packaging, credit card processing fees, and shipping all add up and that’s why returned items get a restocking fee. At this point I’ve contacted Steve via Email, something he didn’t bother to do for me, and gave him 4 options on how to proceed. After reading this thread, I’m narrowing it down to one: Full refund including shipping and without a restocking fee. I’d rather not have someone who is as unsatisfied with my products keep them on his car; I can tell he is less than pleased with us and our product so I’d like to put him back to square one so he can explore other avenues for his project. The reason I didn’t respond to this thread was because I was stuck in AZ with a broken car for the last 4 days. Had anyone bothered to check the last time I was online they would have noticed it was in the morning on the 25th of August. Thanks for thinking I was lurking and reading this all but then ignoring it. Curtis called me to let me know about the entire thing on Sunday night.

I didn’t intentionally try to deceive Steve about any portion of this. I had the pan, windage tray, pick up tube, port plugs, hardware, and O-ring in stock to send, but lacked the -12 AN fittings and GM gasket. I figured that I would get them in stock in a reasonable time frame; I didn’t and here we are. We are the only company that includes all those items in our oil pan; you will still need to come out of pocket for that stuff when going to any of our competitors. Does our delivery time suck at the moment? Yes it does. Do I have less than stellar customer service at this point? Yes I do; but I’m trying my hardest to get back on top of all this. I work at Anvil Auto from 8-6 every day and then run ATS part time at night. Anyone that has dealt with me at Anvil knows I still take care of our clients and I do exactly as I say I will. If Steve wants to talk with Matt or Manal instead of me to order that’s his choice. We will still provide a great level of service to him and deliver product like we say we will. I have no bad feelings or malice towards Steve, and I feel his concerns are completely valid. I do feel he should have contacted me via email or phone instead of posting up a thread, but that’s just my feelings on this whole matter.

Both sides have asked that this thread be re-opened up to clear the air. Out of respect for them, I'm doing so.

Out of respect for our community, I ask that we stay on subject, no outside drama.

I at first wanted the thread reopened after Tyler's post so I could respond to a couple things. While it was down I had time to talk with a couple members one a mod who ask that I call him. After speaking with them I was happy to have it closed but Tyler wanted it reopened.
I just want to touch on a couple things Tyler has said.
In his thread he said I didnt bother to email or call him. Hes right, I didnt. One would think that when your PMing each other back and forth both parties are in the know. I dont know how a email or call would have changed things, its not like we didnt talk about the problems at hand.
Next up is the refund that has been offered. His first response from a email from him was,
Yes thats right he was still charging a 20% fee.
The next email was after he read the thread,
This is the reply that is still on the table. The problem IS that last sentence and he didnt bother to mention that on here. Sure he will make the return but it must include the spindles. Why, I dunno. They have NOTHING to do with the matter at hand. I have two different invoices from them but he charged them at the same time. The spindles are still on my car.
Heres something else I dont understand
I really dont understand this. Maybe its not a lie, just a fib,lol. He told me it was in stock but knew it wasnt. What do you call that? So let me get this straight if it takes a month or two to get up to 20 gaskets that means I have to wait? Yep he offered tp give me cash for the gasket, but it was on the day this thread opened after I raised hell. So it I didnt raise hell I would still not know about having to wait for 20 gaskets? Do you see where Im going with all this?
In the end I need the spindles I sent a email saying just get me a new pan with hardware. Hes agreed but I can tell you Im still not 100% happy. The more I read his response the more I would just like to send it all back and be done with it.

I'm glad this has been unlocked...was looking forward to seeing how this issue was going to be resolved.

Heres the email I sent to Tyler yesterday
I also was disappointed it was closed, I wanted to hear what others had to say. I tried to get it open again but the powers that be said let it die. So I did. Heres the problem as I see it. There was a easy fix to all this. One that could have left me posting, ATS took care of the problem and made it right. It just seemed every time I tried to go there I was hit with the fact of a restocking fee. I know you feel the part was in stock but 90% isnt in stock! Like you said the gaskets will sit until they reach 20. That could be months! Now if you would have told me this when I got the pan I could have asked for cash to go buy the parts. But I thought hey, he said they were coming and Ill just wait. From my point of view it was just a gasket, how low could that take. I didnt know at the time about the 20 sets until it ships.
As for contact with you. Man, I was getting PM's back and you were online so I was like what the hell. Yep I could have called. But you've made yourself look sooo busy that I didnt want to bother you with a call. I know thats hard to believe, but thats how I felt. I mean shoot Ive called a few times and I get the machine. As for email, well I never thought about it. I mean we talk though PM's so I just took it as whats the difference.
Take this or leave it, I dont know your full situation. I will tell you it seems like your company has nice products and with a bit extra it could go far. The problem is you need to get on it because everyday you dont someone will step up and do.
Good luck in the future with sales and I mean that. I hope if anything this whole thing helps you in business. All it would take is a steady roll by you with people on the site and you'll be back up and going!
Steve

"but at this point I'd prefer you not run anything we manufacture"....really? This statement is very unprofessional. You were paid for product and didn't deliver..period. Make it right so this thread and any further damage to your business can go away. You aren't winning any fans by throwing out statements like this. I hope it felt good to take the low road over a few bucks, but I would never, ever buy from a company who put forward a face like you have in this thread.

I have to agree with the statement above. I really do not understand what taking back the spindles is going to do for you. Other than a power trip, it does nothing. You would think that having a set out there and the positive experience of running them might help your business somehow. Word of mouth at a track or show goes a long way. Good or bad.
I was really hoping this would all get resolved and everyone would be happy but going at it like that(asking for the spindles back) is really taking it down a few notches.

Steve, Good luck with the build and I hope it comes together smoother for you the rest of the way.

Tyler, I hope your business rebounds and you get things under controll. You have some really great products. But as stated before, if you don't take care of it someone else will. I have to say though, asking for the spindles that are installed and paid for is really taking a step backwards in that process.

And to the Mods, thanks for reopening this thread. I think we all need to see how it plays out. This is exactly the kind of information people building cars and buying parts need to see.

Tyler I would like to take you up on your offer of sending everything back to you including the spindles. That way we can just be done with all of this and end it. Please PM,email or call me letting me know you you would like to do the refund. Thanks Steve

from a business stand point yes it would better to not request the spindles back...
but its not a situation (from what i see here)of that for tyler, he would rather not have someone reap from all his hard work put into his products if the person is blatently attacking his caracter... to some people money not everything and they wont deal with certain crap just to make a buck...

I cant believe this statement, He is happy to deal it and not receive it is that what you are trying to say, He needs to get over it and and behave like any reputable business owner would, I believe he should be humble cop it on the chin and work at getting things sorted, that is how a successful forward moving person would think.

Greg

I will take those spindles off your hands PM me with a fair price.