Question is Why? And is there any chance FAST will replace it. It has no miles on it, 2 years old and the car is stored in a heated/ air conditioned garage. When ever I run the car it is always brought up to operating temperature for at least 20 to 30 min +.

Ahhhhhhhhh..... the $64 question.

You bought it 2 years ago --- it might have been in stock for another year -- making it 3 years "old" --- and maybe the first year was in a high humidity location...

I'd certainly ASK about a warranty replacement - or maybe from where you bought it... but if I was the factory - or dealer... I'm not sure I'd stand behind it at this point -- 2 years is a long time... and you'd have a hard time proving you didn't let it get that way during the build... but it never hurts to ask --- and honey gets more than you know sometimes.
:wow:

hmmm.... very interesting. I've found the same corrosion problem with an MSD distributor with an older MSD cap with aluminum lugs and no vent. The replacement cap i got had brass lugs and a vent. The steel reluctor also had corrosion on it. I sprayed everything under the cap & the inside of the cap with WD-40 before I put it on. Haven't checked it in a while and haven't driven much either so I can't give any results.

Any updates ?

Well- I shot the pics off to Matt(tech) at FAST and I dont think they want to know me. I still cant believe how much rust particles were in that cap. I swapped in an msd rotor and a vented msd cap. It seems to run good, havent taken it out on a long haul yet but we had it out last sunday, felt crisp.

Im gonna have to disassemble the whole distributor and either paint it or plate it. If the top looks like that can you imagine what the bottom looks like. Im sure lots of rust fell into the lower area of the distributor.

This lack of quality should be embarassing to FAST. If anyone knows of a direct replacement distributor for this junk, please give me the name of the company. I would like to pitch this one in the trash. :mad:

Rich

Rich --

I wonder if you couldn't just blow it out (taken out of the car of course) with some compressed air -- and then shoot it with some WD40 -- let that "dry"... it is for water displacement - and does "dry". The WD40 might put a protective barrier on the metal parts (looks like the advance weights are rusted a bit)... toss in a new rotor and a new cap.. and have a happy distributor?

I usually drill (do NOT use a twist drill for this - use a "step drill") a small 1/4" hole just behind the #1 stud in the cap. This "vent" does a couple of things - it lets you check with a timing light on the top of the cap... shows you exactly where the rotor is in relation to the "timing" (rotor firing on #1) so you can "phase" your rotor (if your distributor allows that - it should for EFI)... and it also gives an exit to vent the "static" out of the cap. This "static" is why they went to the bigger cap - ala the GM HEI style... There's another name for the static - but damned if I can think of it right now. MSD even sells a "vented" cap for "performance" applications.

Glad to hear you've found a probable culprit.

Re-check the MSD cap to see how well it fits "snug" to the distributor vs the FAST unit. Also make sure you don't see it "walking" on the distributor base when running/revving the engine. I've seen this happen with MSD/FAST when used together.

Thanks Dennis- As a matter of fact I wasn't happy with the fit , the cap is keyed but the spring loaded hooks on the msd cap that hold the cap down felt a bit weak. I could see how its possible for it to pop up and walk. Its no where near the clamping force of the original cap.

Any suggestions on how to secure it better? Any mods that can be done?

Rich

The MSD isn't a snug fit. We didn't mod anything but, decided the FAST cap was better and replaced it with another one of theirs.

Cleaned up the distributor the best I could and running with the msd cap and rotor for now. The engine seems to be running real crisp. Got it out for a long blast. No sense in vendor bashing, the pics speak for them selves.

Not to many weeks left here on the east coast to get the car out, the winters moving in. Thanks to all you guys for helping me out, really appreciate it. :thumbsup: .

Thanks again Rich

Glad you found the issue....

Chalk up the "fixing parts" as part of the hot rod world...

I've hardly ever had a part that fit the way I wanted - or the first time - or that worked etc.

Friday - I was installing power windows in this 55 Chevy project I'm building for my buddy. They're the type that you use the stock window crank on - so they're really just a "momentary switch" with a return to neutral. They're like $99 EACH... so I fab a mount - got the window guts all installed ... wire up the switch just like it says to -- NO WORKIE. So scratch my head - check the instructions - yep that's all good - check the power to the switch - good - make the window go up and down with a tool that I have to supply 12Vs -- yep -- window works just like it should -- check my wiring again - hook it back up - NO WORKIE... Remove the switch - get the Fluke out - do a continuity check - get continuous continuity (3 pins on switch - A is continuous to B - which is 12V + C is ground) between A and B - activate switch with the handle - and it should disconnect A from B(12V+) - and apply 12V- from Pin C. Since there are two switches in the handle (one for up and one for down) these little micro switches need to "reverse polarity" - so either supply 12V+ to one wire to the motor - and supply 12V- to the other wire to the motor (the motor is a 2 wire motor - grounded thru the case).... BUT try as I might - no way am I getting ANYTHING out of PIN C... SO now I have to take this switch all apart -- and figure out what's wrong -- well - the eccentric has two flat spots on it - and those flat spots are what OPEN the switch (switches for this application are "normally closed")... so I have to pull the eccentric out and "flat" the spots some more until they'll let the switch open... NOW --- ALL the previous makes little difference and I only added it to show how much work I had to do to figure out what the problem was -- and then figure out a solution. You buy a part -- hope it works - when it doesn't - you have to reverse engineer the dang thing to figure out what it's SUPPOSED TO DO - then figure out how to make it work -- OR send it back and hope the replacement (after you wait a week or two) works...

I never get mad at this kind of stuff -- I just figure it's part of "hot rodding" and in fact -- my buddies and I all just count on having to "hot rod" any parts we get.
:lol:

Greg,
I am coming to your house when it's time to reverse engineer my hot rod parts. Now if I can get you to reverse engineer my wife and figure that out I would be truly impressed!:rofl:

Greg..... What he said... my wife too... If you can reverse engineer wives:hail: you would be the richest man in this country....:lol:

Blessings,
AMS

Tell ya what -- We've been together since she was 14 and I was 18... and we've been married for 30 years this November -- and I haven't the foggiest clue about how she works!!!

Same here Greg. Welcome to my world.

Hi Guys, I know I got here late, Rich sent me a Pm a while back on the other site but I have been off line for a while with some physical problems. Rich sent me the PM because I run a similar setup and he know I have had nothing but trouble with my FAST dist.
I am seriously considering going to a crank trigger with a different dist on my engine.

FWIW the interior of my dist was in worse shape then Rich's, I disassembled it, sand blasted and powder coated it. I believe the the corrosion is actually from the OZONE created by the electrical corona of the spark. I deal with this all the time at my work and OZONE is very corrosive.

Rich, I'll contact you soon.

Hey John,

Hope your feeling better. I was astonished at how quickly and how deep the corrosion penetrated the different metals in the distributor. Ive heard about ozone formed from lightning. I imagine similar discharge can occur inside the distributor cap, especially if there is enough fluid in the environment.

Thanks Rich

Thanks Rich, I ended up with torn ligaments in the muscles that run from my neck to shoulder. It's been very inconvenient.
Not to hijack this thread or to turn it into a bashing session but I am extremely disappointed in my FAST parts. Although the XFI does seem to operate correctly it is not as user friendly as they would have you believe and their customer service has gone to trash. I can never get through to Dave or Justin and it takes days if not a week or longer to get a return call from them. For the money we spent with them I would expect better service.
As far as the dual sync dist goes both you and I got some of the first ones shipped. Probably close to the first 5. I wonder if they have made any improvements since we got ours? I've tried to question them on who actually makes the housing but they will not disclose their mfg. and lastly as you and others have seen getting a cap that fits snug without going back to FAST seems impossible. Even with the index I can move my cap about 1/16" either direction and it has no clamping force whatsoever.

So like you, once I am healed up and able to work on the car once again getting rid of that dist is a top priority. I have considered going to a crank trigger at a minimum and possibly coil packs to get rid of the dist all together. I have also read lately that Accell has come out with their own dual sync dist but I have not looked into it at all yet.

Accel has had a dual synch for years, I had one several years ago. I could not make it work correctly and went back to the tried and true MSD billet and non-sequential bank to bank firing.

I've heard more issues with the dual synchs than any other distributor setup. They are a great idea, but seem hard or confusing to get properly phased. Mine actually turned out to be defective as per Accel, they replaced it with another defective one, and I gave up............. :yes:

Jody

I agree (edited out "concur" I don't use words like that - what the hell was I thinking?) -- Dual Sync is a "problem".... I'm on #3.... but am still using it -- and running sequential and everything seems to be working so far.

Laid it down while working on something - had the cap end down a bit - some oil ran down and got on the board - big no no! Took me a couple days to figure that 'issue' out! Once cleaned up - no problem - but it was one of those things that you couldn't 'see'... and just lucky I found it!

Ok, So obviously Me and Rich are not the only ones that have had problems with Dual Sync distributors.
What are our options?
As I said I was considering going to a crank trigger (my original choice before I got talked into the dual sync) or even looking into a LS style coil over plug setup. I do know that FAST sells a controller for this type of system but there are a few other issues to work out.

1. What to do about the oil pump drive?
2. How can you dress it up a bit on a 1st gen 23* engine

On # 2 I ask before I have not seen anything that makes the coil packs look decent. But I do admit I have not looked into it very deeply yet.

Any suggestions?

Try an Accel dual sync distributor??

I'm tired of "trying" things hoping they will work. I really do not have the money to throw around on something that "may work" and I have read of others having problems with the accel dual sync as well.
Sorry if I sound a bit frustrated but like many others I've got boxes of parts sitting in the garage that did not work for one reason or another and at this point (and age) I would like to be able to enjoy driving my car without worrying if something like the distributor is going to fail again after no more then a couple of hundred miles.

John,

I really cant see myself going to a coil on plug conversion by the time you add up the cost of external boxes and coils and crank triggers it just aint worth it. Dont have any clue how you would get a cam sensor in there to run sequential. This system has cost a ton already, got to cut my loses now.

If I understand your problem corrrectly it was predominantly mechanical, and you were able to resolve it with some design change. The real question is, is the electronics reliable? I have considered purchasing another one and tearing it down to the housing and possibly welding ears on it to bolt down the cap and adressing the issue you had as well. Maybe even keep the one in the motor now as a back up.

Im shocked that msd has not come out with a distributor like the one we have only better.

Rich

here and idea: pull the crank damper off, have it index drilled for insertion of rare earth magnets, make a crank trigger pick up mounting bracket, cut off all but one of the reluctor teeth in the distributor. Now you have a crank signal and a cam signal. You could also just use a trigger wheel and a pick up.

I had partially done this on my 440 with XFI- I did not modify the distributor. I was testing the crank trigger to make sure it worked ok. It did not. The magnets i used were too small and would loose power when hot. I switched the wires back to the distributor for the crank signal for now. At some point I will put in larger magnets or add an aftermarket trigger wheel.

Not sure if that will work with the FAST Dual sync, the pickup is a hall effect and runs 8 crank magnets and 1 cam magnet in a molded plastic housing.

So here's the answer you're looking for -- YOU DO NOT need a dual sync style distributor if you run BATCH FIRE. You only need a dual sync distributor for running SEQUENTIAL.

That help??

How's that for a simple solution? Just junk the dual sync - and run a good old fashioned MSD.. Just make sure you're running Batch Fire, and you tune accordingly.

I'm running sequential with no cam signal. I decided to do this to not have big spikes in pressure from batch fire. I have no idea if it makes a real difference.

I was just trying to answer the original question - which was - how to get rid of the dual sync distributor. And the easiest way for him to do that - is to just run a "normal" distributor and run batch fire. Unless he's trying to maximize fuel milage - or trying to pass emissions etc - there's no reason to HAVE to run sequential. His beef is with the dual sync. So my answer is a simple, straight forward, cost effective way, which is what I think he was looking for.


:cheers:

Oil Pump Drive 48-2 Target
 

I have been using my OPD with a 48-2 target for YEARS.

The one Hall sensor will provide for sequential coil AND injector operation, "Gear Down".

Those that fit a Degree Based (720) EMS can also benefit with one injection event in each cylinder WITHOUT a cam sensor.

There are some EMS that can "find" engine phase without a Cam (phase) input, my EMS can do this work.
This is done for safety reasons, though I do support that feature. (INDEX input)

Lance

Lance --

Your response might be helpful - if it wasn't total gobbledegook...

Most of us aren't EFI engineers... So I'm guessing that about 1 in 100 on here would have a clue what you just posted.

How about reposting the info in terms people can understand and use??


:rofl: :rofl:

What, you don't understand? This all boils down to "I can do it, just give me a call". LOL or 220 - 221 whatever it takes! (If you are up on your Mr. Mom movie quotes) LOL

I agree, can you try again for the rest of us? :lol: :thumbsup:

OPD- oil pump drive.
EMS- engine managment system.

He's using a toothed wheel on the OPD to create a signal that that locates TDC #1 , or similar, to let the EMS know exactly where in the cycle the engine is. It's not just one magnet, but multiple teeth so the resolution is better. The ability to use this type of signal varies by EMS. To the best of my knowledge, XFI can't use this type of signal. A few that can are Pantera, Simple Digital Systems, Haltech, Megasquirt and Motec- there's probably more I can't think of.

Ahhhhhhhhh, that helps. Thanks very much. More than one way to skin a cat.

Gobbledegook
 

Yeah -- Okay -- Sure...

I'll refer to my original post advising him to just run a simple MSD or equivalent distributor and run BATCH FIRE rather than sequential... after
all... he was looking for a COST EFFECTIVE way to fix his "dual sync" issue..
Sometimes -- SIMPLE is good.


:rofl: :rofl:

Greg, no one is disagreeing with what you said. In fact, what I said about using a crank signal only and running sequential to prevent fuel pressure spikes has the total cost of nothing vs. batch. It's just a setting in xfi and I'm using a standard Mallory electronic distributor, nothing fancy. I'm glad other systems and options are being brought up, maybe we'll learn something. I hope Pantera posts more , I've read a number of his posts on efi sites.

Injection Instant
 

Costs are important, you could acquire the 48-2 target/Hall separately, then fit those items into your distributor.

The XFI could be "upgraded" to accept the Gear Down target.

We may be the largest manufacturer of ITB kits for V-8 engines.

These items effect the "tune-up" to a great extent with "stack" injection.
1. The Injection Instant (start of injection) needs to coincide with the point of maximum air flow into the port at low injector duty cycle. (390-450 degrees ATDC)
The '882 EMS then will advance that point similar to ignition timing, then for more fuel (PW increase) we delay the closing of the injector.
When this is achieved with your EMS calibration, low speed response will be GREATLY improved.
2. The fuel regulator BORO (air) pressure reference should be connect to the manifold, if NOT, then the BORO correction needs to be inverted NPC vs PPC.
3. The spark energy needs to be greater with longer duration, NO Multiple Spark Discharge (a lot of little sparks with gaps in between)
No one can argue that eight coils will provide more energy into the cylinder than one coil for all eight cylinders.

Lance

I got a chance to pull the distributor out of the engine, to break it down. Thought I would share my findings and some mods I did to make it more reliable.

First thing I did was press out the drift pin that retains the distributor drive gear and pul the shaft out.
http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u...Picture074.jpg
I found the crimp at the top of the distributor shaft that holds the rotor mounting plate was able to spin back and forth about 5 degrees, not good!
So A few tig tacks did the job
http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u...Picture084.jpg
After removing the magnet holder and its indexing key, I relized this plastic key can easily strip out of the key way in the shaft. Since mine was a decent fit I simply cleaned it and added som armstrong A-12 epoxy to insure its not going anywhere
http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u...cture073-1.jpg
http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u...Picture075.jpg
I cleaned up all the rust and re painted. The loose fitting msd cap was the final step. I machined an alluminum ring to fit over a step on the outside of the housing, drilled a tapped it for 8-32 and dropped some cap screws down to squeeze it up tight. It fit real nice. And the cap is super tight now.
http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u...Picture093.jpg
http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u...Picture099.jpg
Dropped it back in to the engine, unfortunatly its snowing out so I cant test it but I think it should be more reliable now.

Rich

That looks sweet Rich it should all stay tight now. Thats what I like to see get home and right back to work. lol

Nice fix Rich. I just recently bought a small mill and I've been wanting to get a rotary table which may be just what I need since I do not think I can bore a hole large enough for the ring.

Pay particular attention to your third picture. That is the key that sheared off of my distributor and caused all kinds of grief. Our fix was to slide the collar over a short piece of 1/2" dia. aluminum rod. Chuck it into the vise and then drill it. We centered the drill on the joint between the collar and shaft then drilled through the length of the collar. I do not remember the size of the drill bit but it's diameter equaled the diameter of the key slot on the dist shaft. We then installed the collar on the shaft and used a piece of stainless wire of the correct size to locate the collar properly and epoxied it in place.
When I pull my Dist to make the ring for the cap I'll dis-assemble it and take pictures if you want.