Ron,
I hope you understand, but since this car is being built for competition, I do not want to get into some specific numbers on this thread. My goal is to show some cool work being done to a 2nd gen Camaro, but not give away all of our secrets. Can't give it all away.

Thanks,
Brian

its a great build for sure. But how is telling a guy your scrub radius, a secret?

keep up the killer fab work.

Our goal is for close to zero scrub and we got what we wanted. We want to keep some feel in the steering.

I don't want to upset anyone, I just don't want to start giving out specs on the car as far as the suspension goes. One thing can lead to another and then all of a sudden our competition knows everything.

Thanks!
Brian

Here are a couple shots of the firewall. It will get smoothed off and insulated with Lizard Skin later.

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...b/IMG_0271.jpg

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...b/IMG_0272.jpg

Not a problem at all. I completely understand your position. You told me what I was looking for.

Thank You
Ron Stone

Incredible build! Can't wait to see it done!

Here are some photos with the front wheels/tires. The wheel / tire combo will be 18" x 12" rear wheels with 345-35-18 DOT race tires. The fronts are 17" x 12" with 335-35-17 DOT race tires. Either Hoosier A6 or Kuhmo 710's will be used. The wheels are CCW. Our goal was is to get as much tire on the ground as possible and not have a wide car. In the end, we should not need to flare the fenders or quarter panels out much, if at all. We will need to go up with some body work for clearance. The final product will try to keep the original shape of the car as much as possible.

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...IMG_0899-1.jpg

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...b/IMG_0898.jpg

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...IMG_0895-1.jpg

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...IMG_0896-1.jpg

That is a serious amount of tire up front. Wow! The rears on my 70 are smaller than those! I will be running 315-18s out back.

This is one serious 2nd gen Camaro.. I like all the work that is being done to it & the fact that is being built for competition racing :thumbsup:

What material are the upright made of and will you have to heat treat them after all of the tig welding to nomalize were is the spell check at! them before you run them great setup,love it:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Amazing build guys. This is going to be one mean machine.:thumbsup:

The uprights are made of 3/16" cold rolled steel. No plans to heat treat at this point.

Thanks for the complement. We are happy with the results so far.

Here are a couple photos of the front bars for the cage getting made. The bars were made just before we started filling in the holes in the fire wall. To be installed later.


http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...b/IMG_0949.jpg

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...b/IMG_0950.jpg

Hey Brian,why the square tube in the rear cage,never seen that in my circle track world? And why is the 3rd so far over to the side,figured for lefts and rights center mounted would be more neutral. Nice fab work.

I will give you the condensed version of why Maier used square tubing and the offset 3rd link.

Both are used in the latest GT series type cars. The square tubing is used in the rear section for a few reasons. It is more rigid than round tubing for tension and compression. If it does fail, it is at a higher rate than round tubing. But, if it fails, it fails bad. Round tubing is more forgiving and will bend much more before it completely fails, that is why the passenger compartment uses round tubing. Also, square tubing is easier to fabricate in tight areas and when the paneling is installed, it will give a flat surface.

As far as the offset 3rd link, it is also that way modern GT cars are built. Circle track cars use a centered 3rd link, and road cars use an offset. On acceleration, if you were to put scales under the rear wheels, the weights would be different from left to right. Offsetting the upper link evens out the weight distrubution on acceleration. Since packaging is not a real concern on this car, it was the way to go. I am not putting in rear seats. Paneling will cover up all of Maiers nice work.

Here is a picture of a newer Corvette GT car that shows the round tubing in the passenger compartment and square tubing in the rear.
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...48788086pd.jpg

Thanks Brian for your explaination,we too have offset the 3rd link,but were only going left,just figured the amount that it is favored would have to create unequal traction from left to right,thanks again not questioning wheather your right or wrong,just picking your brain.And I too figure if it works in a proven vehicle where the builders have much more technoligy then it will work for me!!!

Amazing work on the 2nd Gen guys. Makes me wish I had kept my 70 Camaro. Cant wait to see the finished product.

Man, that thing will be killer! Giant roller skate. I assume you will have to flare the front fenders and not run inners?

What brand aluminum seat is that pictured in the car?

The car will have matching Kirkey road race seats for the driver and passenger.

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...IMG_0899-1.jpg

The front fenders will need to be flared more in the up direction. I am going to try to keep the fenders as stock looking as possible. We have not put the fenders on yet to see how big they will need to be. Nothing will be on the inside. The fenders are fiberglass.

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...IMG_0896-1.jpg

Here are some updated shots of the front structure.

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...b/IMG_1105.jpg

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...b/IMG_1382.jpg

Wow, I am completely in awe of this car. Nice work. Man I want to race!

Brian,

The car is looking absolutely killer. It's gonna look wicked with all that tire underneath it. I like the route you have taken with the suspension. I have thought about doing something similar with my 73.

Good luck, I can't wait to see more.

Chris

The two pieces of blue tape in the bottom picture. Could you please explain the setup with the steel plate and then the tubing running forward? The plate is attached to the firewall and the tubing is attached to the subframe? I'm having a little trouble picturing it in my mind and my 2nd gen is stored a distance from my home. Incredible build. Things such as the spindle fabrication is just jaw dropping impressive to me.

Thanks for the nice words. Here is a photo from the inside. Hopefully, this will answer your question. Maier is buidling the cage to make the car as rigid as possible. The plate is just covering up the hole in the firewall.

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...IMG_0303-1.jpg

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...b/IMG_1382.jpg

Oh my now this is a project wow i loveeeeeeeee it awesome fab work
What a balls to the wall build :thumbsup:

Who on Earth told you that? I am not saying it is bad to use square tubing, but what you just stated is based on something other than engineering... generally speaking a square is one of the worst shapes, hence why you see a lot of round columns for compression members like bridges across the nation and engineers use words like "triangulate" - make sure to make every square a triangle at some point. Not too many square submarines out there :)

There are certainly reasons to use square tubing and you did state one of them in terms of easy to attach panels to by having a flat surface to rivet into and riveting the panels in and really making them carry shear adds a lot of rigidity. Also people have learned that after you bend a tube it removes the rigidity it so it is better to cut and weld the corner than bend it making sq tubing easier to work with that way as well.

That said, dig the car and am definitely subscribed!

I am not a mechanical engineer, so I am not a great source to debate the strength differences. I am going with the knowledge and expertise of my builder.

In pure tension or pure compression, a square tube should have a higher load capacity than round because there's more metal in the cross sectional area if the diameter and width match. ie 2in square tube has more are than 2in round. Obviously, wall thickness would need to be the same as well.

That's simply sigma = force/area. How is that not right? Are there other forces at play possibly? From my knowledge as that of a mech eng student, round is used primarily because it has the same characteristics regardless of which direction the force is applied ie it's the same on all "sides". A rectangle or square depends on where the force is applied or how the tube is oriented.

Where am I messing up?

now at least the discussion begins to involve sizing of tubing and orientation of load discussions. It isn't just "square is better than round" sort of thing. Additionally consider weight when you use 2x2 box v. 2" round, etc and the efficiency that comes from actually doing P/A calcs, buckling if that is critical, etc. Like I said, using square tubing isn't bad, but a general statement like square tubing is better than round is a too general IMO and shouldn't be assumed some sort of rule of thumb. Depending on the length of the section then torsional rigidity also comes into play.

If you now consider all your formulas and design by weight and not just size (which should be a primary consideration in any race car even one with a 3100lb weight reqm't) then you won't use 2" square over 2" round.

Now in some instances like framing out a car it can be beneficial to use rectangular tubing, oriented correctly to have a narrow beam fitment where you need to drop seats between beams v. round tube that is fatter than that orientation requires... if I could have gotten rect chromoly in the size I calc'd I wanted in my racecar I would have boxed my cockpit with it but was stuck using round (I used Finite Element Analysis software to lay out all of my stuff to compare stresses, torsional rigidity, etc in design before I had my chassis built).

Back on topic, again diggin' the car so keep the pix coming!

Actually, a square beam is stronger in bending and as a simple beam, using engineering equations. Both or these failure modes are based on the members moment of inertia, and a square tube has a higher value.

And triangulation refers to frame nodes and tube intersections, not the material shape.

Thank you.

I just deleted my response actually - no hijack ;)

Here are photos showing the front structure near completion. The cross bars are still to be installed.

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...ofIMG_0297.jpg

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...b/IMG_1101.jpg

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...b/IMG_0129.jpg

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...b/IMG_0130.jpg

Very nice Brian!:hail:

Is the subframe welded solid to the body ? Is it still possible to square the frame up with the body ? may be a better way of wording it
Sorry if it was already discusssed .

The subframe is bolted to the body at the normal location with metal bushings instead of rubber. The bottom of the car has a subframe connector set up that is all welded together, tying it in with the cage assembly. Everything was squared up already.

Very nice work guys!!:thumbsup:

wow awesome fab work :hail: