Thomas -

You want to go see one of the best run shops EVER - IMHO - take a spin down to the bay area and check out Roy Brizios shop.... he builds killer cars - has all the skilled guys - and tools - in a fairly smallish shop... He's been doing it for years - has a fabulous reputation - and the product speaks for itself. I spent some time there discussing my recent frame build - and here's an HONEST shop - he told me - "well, I can build it for you - but it's going to be the same chassis you could buy for half the money from one of the regular frame guys... I'm just not set up to crank out frames so we charge by the hour and really only do them if a customer asks us to".

The club I belong to often has major discussions and "lessons learned" at our meetings -- one thing that we discuss often is the quoted shop rate... the guys that have been doing this stuff awhile - will all tell you what Rodger said above... the rate doesn't count nearly as much as how long it's going to take... 'cause $35 an hour sounds cheap - but not if it take 3 times as long!
And $35 an hour is real cheap - until you have to pay $95 an hour to have it all re-done.

Build your shop car - make note of every single hour you have in it - including the time to chase down parts - and go fetch etc - and every shop rag you use - and tape - and welding supplies... you might be shocked at what you really have into the build! Then see if you can sell it at a profit to start your next build... :woot:

So your only interested in Volunteering? I don't know about you but I would rather work on my own car, then volunteer free labor for others. If that is the case, I will bring you 2 cars on monday to volunteer on. Let me know when your done, I will bring you 2 more.

Rodger

Greg,

Should I add the smoke break time? If so, I have one hell of an expensive car!! :lol:


P.S. After reading some great info from guys in the know, it backs up my thoughts of when have your own buisness, it will monopolize your time, period. I love my time off and the fact that when I punch out, work is never on my mind.

Yes Rick definitely understood to the shhhhh game. I priced the car out personally at a local place down the street on the damage to see if maybe I'd pay out of pocket. That quote was 3400.00. The insurance quote was 4600.00 with very little difference in labor/material itemization.

Sorry guys for steering this off track a bit. Back to the OP.

Brizio is one of the few that is probably just as good a business man as a builder. He runs a well oiled machine. He turns out multiple cars per month. But his client list gets shorter every month. Another street rodder dies every month. Will his business ever slow down? probably not. Will he ever win a national event award? Not intentional I guess. He knows there is no money in award winner, one off, set the world on fire cars. He does the same thing over and over and uses a proven system.

I think from a business side of things, So Cal Speed shop does a great job. They sell a crap load of T shirts, but builds and sells a very quality product. So did Jesse James, but he did it in 2 years, So Cal will be selling T shirts in 20 years like Mooneyes. Jesse James will just be married to Sandra Bullock in 20 years. Well in hind sight that sounds like a pretty good business plan also. :D :D :D

1 Go out and buy alot of Top Ramen
2 Plan on having no life for the first few years
3 No its not like discovery channel just because you opened a shop!

Cost
My savings account
Numerous girlfriends
Put all my own projects on the back burner

I worked and went to my shop at night for the first year,I quit a good paying managment job and went to my shop full time, It was a drastic change. I worked 7 days a week and 16-18 hour days for a long time, and still due when needed. Determanation and hard work, and being straight up and honest is what has worked for us. We have put out some cars that were not intended to be indoor show cars and have managed to beat up on some very big name builders and win alot of awards. Oh yeah...its Sundayand I am at work right now, I have been block sanding so long my firgers are ready to fall off.

On the serious side, if its what you are passionate about, and really want to do it...... go out and do it. There seems to be plenty of good people on here that would be more than happy to give you pointers along the way. Good Luck.

Im north of Chicago ...Near that Swartzs charachter . Lots of big Body shops that work on volume and give the labor & extras away to the insurance companies so they can stay open another day . I make less than I did 10 years ago . Shops that charge 52.00 dont get as much insurance work .
The body shops recooped there losses by reducing pay or double sheeting the techs. Sorry to get off topic rant over

I could go for days about this topic. Thank God for Roger!!! He knows how to put the words down. Everything he's said I coincide with down to the t's crossed and i's dotted. It's not easy one bit. Roger and I are in our early 30's and for us to know and understand how things work and what it takes to do what were doing say's alot about a good honest hard working Hot Rod Shop.

I opend my doors in August of 2000 and was sweating at how I was going to pay my $550 rent and $100 bucks in utilities. For the first 4 1/2 years I worked a night job which pretty much paid for my tools. Start work at 7:30 pm work till 4 am or later if overtime. Go home sleep from 4am till 9am wake up get to my shop at 10 or so. Work till 6pm go home shower eat and be at work 20 miles away by 7:30 pm. I was late(by 5 minutes) about five times in those years. I left a $85,000.00 a year job for my passion. Five years later I don't regret it. There are plenty of days where I wish I worked for someone else.

Shop rates vary not only on ones quality of work but also location. I'm in the heart of California where the cost of living isn't cheap. If I could tell you guys what it cost to live a so called blue collar lifestyle you would probably fall over where you stand. Shops that do the same level of work might have different cost cause of location.

This is a great topic but is only the tip of the iceburg on what it takes to run a Hot Rod Shop in this day and age.

The key to any succseful shop is honesty,good work, responsibility,and will. And like I said before Doing better than your best and never letting it rest !!!!

I can't add much from a business owners perspective but I can offer an observation:
I know two guys who both have jobs that were born out of their hobbies. One guy owns a wakeboard/ski boat shop, the other owns a pretty busy garage (not a hot rod shop). The guy that works on boats never makes it to the lake anymore. He is always busy getting clients back out on the water. The guy that owns the garage has multiple projects of his own in various states of completion in and around the shop that he never works on because he is busy on cars for paying customers. By the time he gets all of those done, he is beat and wants to go home and see his family. He never makes any progress on his own stuff.

I can't fathom what it takes to get into a niche market that you are very passionate about and try to make a dollar. I can understand the allure of trying to combine a hobby and a job, but you can't serve two masters. You are either going to have to treat it like a job or treat it like a hobby and your success or failure would be dependent on your ability to do so. I would imagine very few people figure out how to do both at the same time and be financially successful (success can be measured other ways, I am sure these guys live for months off of the smiles they get when they hand over the keys on a completed build).

Either way you go, good luck. There have been some great posts on this thread that apply to business owners in general and I think it is cool that you have generated this great banter from some respected builders on the site.

Oh Shut up! You married Sandras sister so I don't know what your complaining about!!!:lol:

Builders? I'm ready to do your T-shirt lines!!!:unibrow: :lol:

John

This is what I've learned in the 10 years I've been in buisness for. 1. Most people dont understand how much money or time goes into building one of these cars. 2. You'll end up doing way more work for free if you building top notch cars, because you want them perfect to reflect on your workmanship. 3. The people with the most money (for the most part) have more money than you or us because they know how to screw people over and they'll have no problem screwing you over, I've been there trust me.
4. You'll sleep alot better working for someone else, I lay awake at night wondering how to get all the work out or wonder when the next job will come in. 5. So I've built magazine quality cars why do I have to jump through hoops to get any respect or make any money.
So the way the economy is I say stay away, do it on the side and see how it goes. I know some pretty serious shops with no work so keep your day job. Personally I'm out of the custom car building seen it's done nothing but made me not sleep and work for way to less of money than I'm worth so in my shop from now on we'll do the paint work but nothing else or stick with collision work because I know for sure their checks dont bounce. Good luck I wish you better fortune than me!!!!! Telly

I cannot say much more than what has already been said but here goes.

First,
I too worked as a mailman during the day and opened my business at night. I did that for almost two years. They forced me out because I would finish my 9 hour walking route in under 5 hours. They didn't like that so I was fired. Otherwise I would heave kept doing that for a little while longer.

Second, you can have all the greatest skill, tools and whatever, but if you don't get customers it means nothing. It just becomes an expensive hobby. If you are starting out and don't have a recognized name, you need to have something to showcase your talents, ie a built car of some sort. Well building that car will COST you money. It's a double edge sword.

In my experience, after 4 years of being in business, the thing I come back to is that you MUST have a product, something that you can sell that doesn't have to involve installation. Pushing products out the door keeps your cashflow up, maintains decent margins, and that will allow you to build cars, without relying on that as your staple.
Certainly, there are shops that only build cars, but there are a lot of mitigating factors there.

whats everyones take on advertising when your a new shop... even on a site like this,

is it effective? yes... very

BUT it cost alot.

So is it worth it to just let word of mouth do its job or scrape up some money for very expensive advertising.

As a new business if you plan to advertise, it's going to take a while before people want to call you and recongnize you logo and name. It's really no different than watching TV and seeing folgers coffee 25 times in 2 months. You go to the grocery store and it calls your name. It's really no different. The more TOUCHES you get the better. That being said, I wouldn't blow your bank roll on advertising. As a new shop you don't know your direction and you probably don't have the man power to handle the excess anyway. Somem of the most succesful vendors and shops are active on this and other sites. If you get involved with the in crowd and genuinely want to help, you will reap the benefits eventually. Of course you should become a paid sponsor of the site.

I, too, toyed with the idea of getting into the hot rod biz in some capacity (not building - I have no skills!) but realized I can do better and be more successful at other things, and that this foray might just ruin the hobby for me anyway. And actually, I am doing pretty well at ruining this hobby for myself as it is! :D


Oh come on, man. That is a bit ridiculous and bitter sounding don't ya think?

Just because the people with the money are generally better (or at least willing to try) at exploiting the various opportunities presented in the world, does not mean they "screwing everyone over".... :rolleyes:

Sorry....:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I started a screen printing and sign shop 8 months ago, so this thread really hits home for me. I started in the basement of a house, printing t-shirts for family friends and it snowballed for a while into a full-time business. Those who say it consumes your life are absolutely correct - I've never been as stressed or unhealthy as I've been this last year. Working 24 hour days, sleeping at the shop and printing out thousands of t-shirts alone at 5am gets old VERY fast. On the other hand, on the rare occasion that I can step back for a second and actually look at my life, I'm so happy that I made the decision to stop working as an auto mechanic and start my own business - I work for myself and only answer to my customers.

Am I making money yet? Absolutely not. Am I ready to quit and get another job? Hell no. It'll pay off eventually and through all of the stress and muscle aches, I know that I will never be able to go back to a 9-5 job again. I have a storefront now, in my own building, and I can get up every morning and unlock my own door, walk into my own office and make my own money, my way. I've had no social life and almost lost a relationship through it all, but when all's said and done there's nothing like it :thumbsup:

lol already lost 2 relationships due to the shop lol... its not easy

If they're really good chicks -- they stay with you through thick and thin... After 37 years of being together -- and there's a lifetime of good and bad... we're still together and going good. :thumbsup:

It sure is bitter call me and I'll tell you why!!! and like I said for the most part, I know there's good rich people out there I've just never delt with one. I've built cars for alot of people and the ones who worked a normal job and made a normal living were alot better to deal with than the one's with a big bank role. Its just my .02, I've been screwed over to many times to have a good outlook in this buisness. Sure there has to be some really great people out there with money otherwise we would'nt see some of these kick ass builds. Yeah I'm bitter or just plain pissed, I guess its time for me to start exploiting different opportunities also. But I'll stick to this the economy sucks and it's a very hard buisness to succeed in if you have a good job I would keep it, if your serious about getting into this I would highly recommend working at a good shop before you jump in you'll learn alot and maybe even get some good buisness tips!

This is very true there are so many hot rod shops in the Portland/Vancouver area. myself L & H Kustoms, hot rod engineering, bruning auto design, Steves auto restorations, don lowe hot rods, www hot rods, restorations & rods, A&M street rods, custom auto restorations, RPM racing, and about a dozen others. Plus there are a lot of little guys who only charge $30/hr I have redone so many jobs from these "cheap" shops its unbelievable. this area is quite flooded. I would do a little research and see if you thinks its feasible. #1 thing you need is raw talent and #2 tools. producing a part to sell is the best way to try and earn a living then build a few select cars a year. Also be willing to give up your free time as you will no longer have any. I work about 60-70 hrs a week and it is hard. I have the best wife she doesnt like me working so much but is behind 100% me to support me. I am proud to say I have been running my own shop for just over 2 years now but it hasnt got any easier yet. I love being self employed and building cars but I do miss working on my own projects. Your either making money or losing money so when I go out to the shop to work on my car I almost always end up working on a customer car. If you want to just get by and hopefully pay the bills every month go ahead and do it. If you think it will be easy to make alot of money go do something else. Good luck in whatever you decide

All I can add to this is to tell you about my experience.

In high school I lowered my first truck. It was a luv truck. It was my shop project. I lowered it by cranking torsion bars and removing a leave and adding blocks,then I made a removeable hard top and tilt bed. Then I bought my second truck in highschool,which was also my first loan at the local bank,which I will talk about later. I lowered the 83' c-10 by flipping the axles and cutting springs(I know it wasnt the right way but its what I had). After that it all kinda snow balled for a while. I started installing drop springs and lowering kits in every thing from hondas to mini vans for everyone in my high school. I actually got in trouble by the princepal because I would ask the Vol ag teacher to use the shop to do more jobs so I could better my chances at winning the Ag Mechanics Award at the end of the year. He said that was fine, but I was also charging for doing these jobs. I was good till a teacher over heard me talking price to another "client". I wasnt aloud to do any more work unless it was an approved job that they were for sure I wasnt making money on. I used to read magizines in school every chance I got,because I knew I wanted to build cars at an early age. the school adviser used to tell me if I applied my self to school work like I did those magizines I would be on the honors society. I wasnt interested in all that..

While in high school I worked for an ex super stock drag racer building full tube chassis race cars and pro street muscle cars.I remember working at his shop well into the night and some times I would sleep there and grab a shower at his place before rushing off to school. I convinced the same Ag teacher to let me get into welding class a yr early so I could make even more money. It was at this time that I got hit in my C-10 and took it to a guy who painted on the side to have it redone. Well he ruined my truck..thats another story for some other time. After I realized I was screwed over I went to a freind of the family who owned a body shop to see if I could help around the shop to learn paint and body work. I worked both places while still trying to lead a normal teenage life..I had to break many dates because we had cars that needed to be completed.

Fast forward a few years,
I was 19 and built a flamed 91' sonoma. That one truck brought me alot of work lowering S-10' and other mini trucks. This is also the time when things got a litte hairy for me. I lowered a kids new S-10 that his parents gave him for graduation. I used every thing Bell Tech. But at the time there was another guy hacking trucks and they rode on bumpstops. This kids parents thought I did there sons S-10 the same way. They threatened with a Lawyer. I called the family Lawyer and talked to him about my issues. He told me since I charged over a certain amount that I needed a buisiness license and insurance on the work I was doing. So I did just that. I have had my license and buisiness name since 1998. This is were the local bank cames into play as I got in good with the branch manager and he gave me several small buisiness loans over the years.

Fast forward again. and the small 30x40 shop I was working in became a little small and I added on another 18x40. I had always built trucks and muscle cars on the side. We live in a really rural area so there isnt much of a market here.I got in good with the local speed shop and did a few roll cages for them really cheap so that people from the city could see my work. I started helping a local guy when I was slow in my shop. I learned how to set up rear ends. I learned a lot from that guy and went on my way.

There was a truck at SEMA a few years ago that was owned by Dale Ison,It was called the Hero's Truck. It had 2 complete stainless steel chassis' The body sperated from the lower frame. Helping on that built team showed me even more about finish fabrication work and attention to deatail like none other. Over the last several years I have had a roller coaster ride of jobs. I would work at a place then they would go out of buisiness and I would start over.

At one point in time I tried to run my own shop completly as my main source of income. It went well for 2 years then I ran out of work because of several reasons others have said. You take on a big resto job that needed big space and time then you try to get in a smaller job you feel you can knock out quickly. I guess being "wet behind the ears",I wasnt any good at time management. I tried to hire friends to help out after they got off work but not to many were into the hobby as I was. So after a good run I decided to try the 9-5 again. I slowed down working on hot rods and trucks and went to college to presue a buisiness mgmt and accounting degree thinking it may help out if I ever try again.

So that brings me to the last 2 years. I have spent alot of time working on others projects. One big one comes to mind as a life lesson learned.
A 68 SS 396, 4spd,12 bolt chevelle.The guy wanted it completly redone in hugger orange with white stripes over the hood and trunk lid. I went to look at the car, and give the guy a quote. The car was in primer which I wasnt sure about. I told the guy I couldnt quote a price until I stripped the car to see what I had as a foundation. I picked the car up and started by sanding a few spot that I knew where problem areas. I found the typical hack and pack primer job. I called the guy and told him I had a shop I worked with that would blast the car completely for $750,He bulked at the idea even after I tried to tell him the labor would be alot more paying me to hand strip the car.
Then to add salt to the fresh wound, It needed quarters. Again I told him itd be cheaper to install full quarters but he wanted partials. At the end of the job I handed him the bill which I had gone over every thing several times before and he was floored by the amount on the bill. I told him that we went over the bill several times before and before any work was done or before any part was ordered. He paid the bill but wasnt happy even though I had lost sleep and money over the job.

As with others, It has cost me several really good realtionships because I had to work through holidays and weekends. Its a passion of mine to build cool rides. I also take the time to go the extra mile to make sure things are right even if it wasnt on the original build sheet. Im not one to cut corners or half a$$ something. Thats my name associated with that car/truck. I used to go to my day job on very little sleep some times I wouldnt even go home and the girlfriend would be sleeping by her self. It got to the point where I wouldnt even try to date anyone because these cars consumed me. I just didnt have time for it.I dont mind it but it is nice to have someone to go out with every so often.

I to have several unfinished projects. The name in my avatar 796spdbu. Thats my 79 malibu that I installed a 6 speed and a tune port engine in. I started that car in highschool in 96'. I did a complete frame off. It had all the trick hotchkis suspension and eibach springs. I hope to some day finish it.Even though the B body spindle swap isnt the best idea now..LOL
The truck I bought just for hauling projects with,a 97' crewcab dually, was taken off the road 2 years ago for a simple reapint and air ride job. I worked on christmas night this year from 9 p.m. till 3 a.m. priming the cab and bed,missing out on the last family event that day. I had an open spot in the shop for it and had to do it that night as I had another project coming to the shop the next day. Im not complaining,I chose this life.

I know I wrote a novel here but im trying to give you some insight to some of the things I have ran into over my years of building custom rides. Its a big commitment. Its fun but it will take a lot from you also. Its rewarding to see a project go from nothing to a nice ride. Some times you will want to throw in the towel,but if you really love it you will find the drive to stick it out.
Good luck with your new venture!

Greg