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Worked my butt off last night. Got the oil pump installed and got the timing cover to fit right. It ended up working without the shims on the oil pump because the SLP pump is already clearanced for the double roller. I just had to tweek a few high spots on the back of the pump. I also, for the sake of science, got the cover to fit with the shims in place...but decided I liked the install without the shims. Didn't like the ammount of pre-load on the cover, I'm sure it would have leaked.
Also got the rod-bolts installed. Curious thing, the ARP instructions say the rods should be resized. Did a little digging and found that the instructions for the LS1 rodbolt kit are the same instructions that come with the SBC kit. Pictures to come tonight. |
The rod and I believe main bearings on an LS1 are the same as an SBC. You can put the lifters into a roller L98/LT1/4 and that's about it that swaps or is the same.
Good build up you have going there. |
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Several Lt1 guys around here were running up to 600rwhp on 355 builds with forged piston, factory crank and factory powdered metal rods with blowers when the LT1 scene was big. As one builder said they can handle the power just don't drop them on the floor. :lol: http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/51...scription.html has some more info on the manufacturing process. |
First thing I wanted to say was that after a lot of research I found that this combo, the SLP double roller and SLP ported oil pump DOES NOT need to use the spacers. One side of the pump was REALLY close to the chain, so I gave it a little extra room with the grinder. I decided to make it fit with the shims in place as a how-to.
With the shim in place on the oil pump, this is what happened to the timing cover. Hard riding condition on the left side, minor one on the lower right. http://photos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._1242803_n.jpg I applied assembly grease to all the areas I suspect might ride or come close to the cover. http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos...3_403694_n.jpg http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._2095396_n.jpg The only thing on this side that smashed flat was the area on the strengthening rib directly below the area SLP already clearanced. It even left a grease mark behind from the cover. http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos...4_601637_n.jpg Another area that rode was near the pick-up tube boss. You can see the black grease that was left behind. http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._6509007_n.jpg You can see on the cover the areas that were close to touching and those that hit solid. The solid hits not only left grease behind, but scratched off the coating of oil. http://photos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._7539862_n.jpg I then ground these areas(note: I did not have the proper tool for this job, a carbide bit would have saved me a LOT of time): http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._1278272_n.jpg http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._2869532_n.jpg http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs158...._3206627_n.jpg After a very through cleaning (as if rinse, wipe, rinse, wipe, rinse, wipe over and over), I was able to get the cover down without riding anything at all. http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs138....0_671422_n.jpg Side note: When I decided to run the pump without the shims, the passenger side of the pump was incredibly close to touching and likely would rub on the pump at operating temp and RPM. I snugged the pump in place, put grease on the timing chain and turned the motor over by hand multiple times. After removing the pump I could see a very faint outline where the chain was getting too close, so I clearenced these areas as little as possible for just a bit more room. There were, of course, no issues at all with the cover fitting in the configuration. |
Rod bolt how-to
First thing's first, remove the existing rod bolt (only ONE at a time, very important!) using a long handled ratchet and a 11mm socket. After a good push, the torque with break and the bolt will come out in about 4-5 turns.
http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._8147803_n.jpg But, the bolt will not come out all of the way. I used a pair of vise-grips and yanked a few times until the ferrel loosened and the bolts came out with it. http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs138...._5708767_n.jpg http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._3829398_n.jpg Apply plenty of ARP lube (provided in the kit) to the bolt, especially under the head. http://photos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._6033374_n.jpg Then torque to 40lb-ft per ARP's instructions using a 10mm socket and your favorite trusty torque wrench. http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._7926716_n.jpg Note: the instructions in the kit are hidden under the complimentary packet of lube. The instructions say you need to resize the rods, but I discovered these are the same instruction sheets provided in the SBC kits. You do not have to resize rods in GenIII motors when upgrading to ARP bolts. So rinse, lather, repeat until all of the bolts are done. Then it's a good idea to go around a few more times, loosen each bolt one at a time and re-torque them. The debate rages on if you need to retorque or not, but I think it's a good idea and can't hurt anything. |
Very cool.
Moving right along. I like your write-up, very well documented.:thumbsup: |
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Looking good Nate! I can almost smell the tire smoke from here.:thumbsup:
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Interesting reading keep the updates coming. I love learning new stuff.
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Not trying to be a "downer" here at all -- and I know you're having a ton of fun with this project...
BUT (big butt) -- that motor "appears" to have been very hot at some point... that oil and dried "burnt" looking oil on the front around the crank snout - that would worry me... a lot. Does the motor turn over "freely" etc? Have you looked and or checked any of the crank or rod journals? It's non of my business of course - and I'm certainly no "motor guy" -- but it sure is DARK... :thumbsup: |
Doesn't look to be maintained real well, I'd pull a main cap as Greg said.
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looks like a fun build so far yet another big block guy comes out of the dark closet.lol.cracks me up to listen to big block guys talk about how they are the only motors that make power. and most drag racers will get rid of all the comforts to drop 30 pounds and switching to a ls motor and taking all that weight off the front end and that not all the advantages.you are going to thank yourself the extra effort will be worth it in the end..oh I third the pull off the main cap idea. nows the time while its on the stand hope everything falls together for you.:thumbsup:
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Greg, you're not being a debbie downer at all. The motor had good oil pressure before the previous owner pulled it, it turns over by hand very easily and smoothly. I was planning on pulling one cap tonight just to have a looksee, but I'm sure the bearings will look like well worn, very high mileage bearings. Just looks like the previous guy didn't change is oil very often is all. The oil that came out of it looked good and so did the filter when I cut it open. There's no evidence of damage anywhere in the motor so far, just terrible looking oil deposits.
Also sticking to the plan that this is a budget build to just get it in the car and running. If it breaks, so be it. I don't have the money to build a forged 408 right now, but I will in a year or two. |
Thanks! Didn't want to sound like a DD...
BTW -- I think -- and I don't think real well... that you need a TOOL to pull the main caps off of an LS motor... Now maybe there's a "way" to wrestle 'em off there that you - or someone else - knows about. But I would think that the rod caps might give you a good "heads up" and maybe even that isn't really needed if you think the bottom end is all good. When I open my oil filters - it looks like someone filled 'em with brillo pad... Is that good? :rofl: |
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Not to hijack your thread due to Weld but Greg, why do an oil analysis if you have that much debris?
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He wasn't actually...we just don't want to hijack your thread.
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Oil pan, Timing Cover and Mock-up
First off I want to say sorry for the lack of detailed pictures in this update. I had a bad day and went to the garage to work it out. I didn't stop to take many pictures. It did however make me mock everything up to give me a little push to keep going.
Got the windage tray and pick-up tube installed. Make sure you lube the o-ring with the same oil you will be running in the engine. It also helps to install the tube, it should slide right in. http://photos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._5223936_n.jpg Since these are new untested parts, I decided to check the clearance between the oil pan and pick-up. Didn't get any pictures of that, but the result was good. http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._3870340_n.jpg Curious thing happened when I went to install the oil-pan. One of the holes in the pan didn't have a corresponding hole in the block! I took the pan off to double check to see if it was a misplaced hole, but no....there wasn't a hole in the block anywhere near that spot! http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._2754430_n.jpg Interesting note: I used a straight edge to align the oil pan to the back of the block, then something struck me. Is that step truely necessary for engines being bolted to TH400/350/700r4's? The bellhousing bolt holes that are on the pan dont have corresponding structure on my 700r4 to attach to. Or am I just being crazy? Moving on, I got the front cover installed then moved on to the ARP studs. No pictures of that, but I will take some when I take the mock-up apart to finish the heads. So, I put the dowls in the block, slid the heads onto the studs, got the valve covers and coil packs sitting on top of them. Then I put the Vic Jr. on, put the carb that needs to be rebuilt on top of that and test fit the K&N. I thought it would also be neat to see the headers hanging there, so I added those too. These pictures will serve as inspiration to keep me going these next few months. http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs239...._1868695_n.jpg http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._2307652_n.jpg http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._6615890_n.jpg http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._1981008_n.jpg I plan on making a custom valley cover to delete the knock sensor holes and will paint it the same color as the block. Debating on if I should spray in gloss black or chevy orange. Also thinking about painting the valve covers to match as well. Need to make that decision soon, but first I have to get a valve spring compressor to finish the heads and put the long block together. Those pictures look good, but theres a ton left to do! |
It's looking good Nate. But I think your shop help gave up there. :thumbsup:
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Moving right along. What color is the car going to be?!
I say paint the block/valve covers orange.:unibrow: :thumbsup: |
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What, this guy? It was a long day.... He was probably busy sleeping off the bone I gave him. |
Painting the engine
Been a while since I've updated, but I've had a huge curveball in my life. When the time is right I will tell that story, but for now, on with the show.
Between extended periods of time away from home, I've managed to clean, prep, mask, prime and paint both the engine block and the valve covers. I used a ceramic high temp primer and chevy orange rattle can paint. Turned out nice for the $20 I spent on materials. Just a bit of overspray to clean off the front cover. http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._2987797_n.jpg Valve covers primed. http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs511...._1444878_n.jpg Coated in Chevy Orange a few times. http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._5023524_n.jpg With the valve covers loose installed. http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._6432068_n.jpg With the coil packs. http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs491....09_66159_n.jpg |
Carb rebuild
Over a few nights I managed to take apart my carb, clean it and replace every part that is made out of rubber. I deleted the choke mechanicals and plugged the hole for the choke rod. I've cut the choke horn away before on previous builds, but I think I will just leave it for now. Turns out the carb is a 4780-5 800cfm double pumper and not an 850 as I was led to believe. Oh well, still plenty for what I'm doing. While I was at it I found that it had factory jets and a 6.5 power valve. I installed a 5.5 for now and will wait to change out the jets when it's time to tune it.
Pile of parts. http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._2645595_n.jpg Ended up with this. http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos...2_820786_n.jpg |
Sneak preview
Took apart two of the stock lifters in preperation of making them into solid lifters for pushrod length checking and piston to valve clearance checking.
http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs511...._1246418_n.jpg |
Very cool.The Orange came out awesome.:thumbsup:
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I know this is a big jump forward in my install, but between a new baby, my wife almost dying and having to work a ton to make up for lost money...I didn't document anything I've done lately.
I installed the heads on the ARP head studs, installed the valvetrain, and got stuck at installing the harmonic balancer. I didn't have a tool to install it, and none of my local buddies had one. The price to buy one for just a one time use was NOT to my liking. So, I made my own very very simple tool. Cost me $8.45 in materials and $8.99 for a hacksaw (needed one anyway). Here's the recipe: 1 M16 threaded rod with 2mm thread pitch. Just take your old crank bolt with you. 2" stack of washers 1 large diameter thick fender washer (the washer that comes with the ARP bolt is perfect of course) 1 nut 1 deep socket (mine was 24mm) http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._3392034_n.jpg This is the first try...it was a bit too short. http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._3788235_n.jpg Here's the second one I made, a few inches longer. Note the ARP washer on it. http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-...3_737693_n.jpg Stack the washers on the ARP washer, toss on the nut and crank away! http://hphotos-sjc1.fbcdn.net/hs634...._4718764_n.jpg Viola! Crankshaft harmonic balancer is installed! http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._1317344_n.jpg Motor gets installed soon... |
Intake manifold and water pump installed today.
Also fit checked the hughes flex plate designed for use with th350/400/700r4 transmissions. It fit up perfectly with the 700r4 in my car. No need to elongate the holes on this one! Things left to do: 1. Adjust valves 2. Install motor mounts/adaptors 3. Fabricate bracket for SBC style 1 wire alt. 4. Remove power steering box, install manual steering box 5. R&R heater core 6. Install motor 7. Electrical, cooling, etc 8. Vroom. |
Intake manifold and water pump installed.
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._2844230_n.jpg http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs566...._8275516_n.jpg Went the cheap route and kept the stock top cover and reused the wiring grommet. I just filled the hole for the wire with ultra black, put a nice bead of more ultra black on the sealing surface and squeezed it down. I should work that way for a while. Hardly noticeable, I think. http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._3543751_n.jpg Here's the fit check with the Hughes flexplate. Holes line up perfectly with the ATI torque converter for my 700r4. http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-...1_354606_n.jpg PROCESS CHECK! I found the directions for the Edelbrock motor mount adaptor plates to be ambiguous. I THINK this is the direction they are supposed to be installed. http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._4077321_n.jpg And with the old energy suspension mounts attached. http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._2528966_n.jpg One of the last big projects: I need to create a bracket to mount my old alternator. I have already added the pulley I need and have a general idea of where it will go. http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs586....5_522566_n.jpg http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._7689553_n.jpg I think I will use one hole common to the cylinder head, run a tie-rod to another hole...not sure about a third mount. Maybe a plate the takes up three holes on the head and attaches to at least two points on the alternator. And one thing that needs to be done in the engine bay before the motor goes in, aside from a general cleaning and re-paint. This old power steering box has got to go. I have a manual box I'm swapping in since I want to run only a water pump and alternator. http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._3222687_n.jpg Still need to adjust the valves...maybe tomorrow. |
I don't know if you know or not but you also need to change the drag link and pittman arm when you convert to manual steering.
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New update. Not very glorious stuff, but interesting none-the-less.
When I was a student in good weather California, my windows started fogging when I tried to de-fog them. The air smelled sweet and dirty. Heater core was leaking! I did what anyone else going to school in a good climate would do. I bypassed the heater core by cutting the heater hose and looping it back into the water pump. Now, years later, is the time to replace this $38 piece of hardware. It sucked. This is what it looked like after I yanked the fan/cover assembly, loosened the box inside the passenger footwell and pried the hell to get the old heater core out. http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._1611626_n.jpg Lots of beautiful rust. This has got to be a 30+ year old heater core. I think I see Jesus. http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._1220631_n.jpg http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs292....5_334552_n.jpg http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._2577830_n.jpg Here's the heater cover/fan assembly. Dirty, moldy and a bit of rust. http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._5647161_n.jpg This foam-rubber gasket is VERY hard to find. Don't lose it. Here it is installed on my new heater core. http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._5061052_n.jpg Cleaned up the heater box/fan assembly. http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-...9_916128_n.jpg Painted and cleaned the inner heater box. http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs312...._5968382_n.jpg Installing the new heater core is difficult. Especially when I'm trying to take a picture. Can you tell I'm left handed? I seem to be using my left hand in all of my shots. http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._7332955_n.jpg And installed with the retaining clip in place. Note that the metal the retaining clip is on is a bit bent. I had to fix that later. http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-...2_102859_n.jpg Not too happy with the seal job, might go back and re-seal the heater box to the firewall. The excess sealant will be scrapped off and cleaned when I prep the engine bay for paint. http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-...0_625009_n.jpg After removing my old power steering box, I test fit and function tested my new manual steering box. Surprisingly easy to turn the steering wheel now! http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._8096630_n.jpg Another angle. All bolts still loose and no nut holding the pitman arm to the steering box. http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._1814194_n.jpg Another piece for the scrap pile! http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._7039900_n.jpg Last thing I have to do before I install the LQ4 is to clean and paint the engine compartment. Getting really close now! |
congrats on the progress Nathan.:thumbsup:
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Nice progress keep at it.
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Great action pictures... The tear down is always fun, you never know what you will find.:unibrow:
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Here's one heck of an update. Not exactly done with this project yet, but the mock-up picture was too good not to share.
Problem: No alternator on my LSx motor. Have: Alternator from my BBC and the bracket that went with it. Solution: Adapt my junk to run with the truck pulley, waterpump and tensioner. Here's a reference picture of the head http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._3321028_n.jpg Basic location and spacing I had in mind. http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._8176956_n.jpg http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._1733866_n.jpg After making some measurements (including the difference in the depth of my alternator and the waterpump pulley), I found I needed a 1-1/4" plate and I would have to pick-up a hole on the cylinder head with the spacer plate. http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._7121413_n.jpg Got this big hunk-o-aluminum from Midwest Steel Supply. It's 1-1/4" thick, 6"x8" T6 aluminum and with shipping was surprisingly cheap. I could have ordered a smaller size, but I wanted extra just in case. http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-...0_208785_n.jpg Sorry if these pictures are excessive, but I like them. I layed out the pattern using my existing bracket, made some reference marks for the holes (do not drill these) and marked the inside area where I want the other cylinder head hole to end up. http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._3986746_n.jpg http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._7151993_n.jpg http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._6516929_n.jpg http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._3616834_n.jpg http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-...9_305513_n.jpg I managed to find a bandsaw somewhere and cut out the plate. You can hacksaw or jigsaw this, but I wouldn't recommend it. http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._1318687_n.jpg After clamping up the BBC bracket to the spacer plate to use as a drill guide... http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._5177692_n.jpg ...I used a 'gunbarrel' drill bit and backdrilled the holes. http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._6179228_n.jpg After measuring out and drilling the third hole, I mocked the spacer and bracket up to the head. http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._8245816_n.jpg http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._3699619_n.jpg |
Used some random fasteners and a few drill bits and mocked everything up. I had a long steel spacer tube from another project that I cut down to 1-1/4" to match the spacer and used it on the tie-rod common-to the cylinder head.
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._6175864_n.jpg http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._1889637_n.jpg http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._2552309_n.jpg Looks like everything lines up perfectly! http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._4300862_n.jpg Now I need to counter-bore the backside of the outermost hole so I can install that bolt. It interferes with the cylinder head. Then I will de-chrome everything chrome and probably paint the alternator, bracket and spacer an aluminum color so it all looks uniform. And, I need to find a belt... |
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