I am checking my spring pressures to be sure but believe I should be ok, the cam lift is within .020.

yes I am using a dual sync and am still not 100% sure it is working like it should but it is reving to 6k vs 3k the first time out of the box. Do your cam and crank sensor lights come on and stay on in you diagnostics page when you rev it up or do they go white? Mine flash but not in any kind of firing sequence.

The VE estimator was so far off it was a joke. I am using the autocal button and it seems to want to change its mind like a woman in a shoe store. It likes one setting on the way up from idle and another on the way down each done right after the timing stabilizes. The cam and lifters are varying that much.

I am really hoping the swap will go straight forward like it should and if I need to get new springs I will.

Thanks

WOW what a difference.

Everything is up and running and it is responding to the heart surgery really well. It idles now and it has twice as much vacuum. I modified the program I got from Rob at FFI to go with the cam specs I have and it started up and ran quickly and seemes to be pretty good to start. I had to fatten up the bottom end but it was easy enough to do after all I have learned. The changes are subtle and make a difference so I will be able to work with it now.

Tommorow I will change the oil and put the hood back on and go for a drive.

I am suspecting there will be some black marks on the pavement somewhere:thumbsup:

What was the heart surgery all about??

Glad to hear you're happier!

Glad to hear it Jim.

Alright JIM!.. way to go!

The cam is the heart of the engine from where I come from, it even drives the oil pump for it's blood.

The new cam is AWESOME:D

I am having no issues with the ECU or the dual sync so far. I even hit the rev limiter because it was set too low for the shift light setting to be able to see it in time for me to react ,but it did.

I have been using my program learning from the other cam and it is really responding well to everything . I just got done cleaning up the VE table and added some timing. I also had to really fatten up the accelerator program but it is liking it and getting better as I tune.

It can run with the pack now with no problem. 35mph in 1st comes up really quick and 2nd is to 65mph in no time. I am going to have to look into the racepak and log it, something to learn still. I could put in the G Tech Pro and see what it says.


Tommorow will be another good day to tune a bit more and drive if the weather goes as planned.

The tires are not up to the challenge but do hook ok. Some wider and stickier tires would really help acceleration but I can live with the stress relief they give everything else.

I will put up a youtube video next week.

Happy Easter

The car has been up and running for over a week now and it is awesome. The new cam is everything it is supposed to be and the EFI is working like it should, I can actually tune it and get results. Each time I do more tuning it gets better so I know I am on the right track of how to tune.

I learned a whole lot trying to tune bad parts but it did pay off in education.

I am actually having fun with it and everyone who goes for a ride now thinks it is really good. There are a few little qwirky things to get sorted but nothing most anyone would notice but me and those who know cars.

I am ready for the track now and finishing up the interior and the engine bay.

Finally I can say it runs good :D

:cheers:

I am back from Road America licking my wounds. I wasn't totally prepared like I hoped to be. The weak link was the fuel pickup, I would run out of fuel pressure in or after the hard rights and it wouldn't really let you know by stumbling it would hust keep going. The gauge would let you know with no problem. I kept pulling my foot out of it when it went down and it was surviving all day saturday. On sunday I let the instructor drive to show me his lines and how much more speed the car could handle.
The more aggresive driving and the fuel problem led to going lean and cracking a piston. It didn't seem bad and the thought that I could limp home seemed feasable. It didn't make it, 1/2 way was no problem but it didn't make it past that. I have pulled it apart and the cam and lifters look good and the heads are coming off today to seee how they look.

Greg, you were right about the washing of the cylinders when I was tuning it seems as it was letting some blowby of oil. The back of the car was wearing Shaeffer oil but it was livable.

I learned a lot and got to experince my first blown engine. I wasn't taking it too well at first, kind of like losing your first girlfriend you thought you loved,lol. I am getting over it as I get the parts off and see what is still good.

I have an L82 short block that I can put in to replace it to get going but I am also getting some quotes for a new beefy lower end. I am not sure about the heads and may use the ones from the stockcar engine if they are good still. It will save time and money if I can use them.

The pan needs some welding repair but I did get lucky and the damage is not in the area of the baffles and doors, it is up front on the 1 and 2 cylinders.

I think I can get it back together in time to go back up the 1st and see how it goes. I have to fix the fuel problem at the pickup and have some ideas that I can try and see how it goes. If I can't get it to work I will not go out and push it again unti it is ready.

The car handled like a dream and hooked up very well. The power was more than I thought and when the instructor was driving it was keeping up with the C5's with no problem in both areas. The predictability of the handling was better than expected with no rear bar. The car pushes and the rear sticks right behind. Everyone was impressed with it and the crowd of people that it attracted was more than I could have ever believed. The comments were all positive and some were amazed at the fab work and a few finally got to see what they had been dreaming about doing to their cars and weren't sure how to do it.

The most repeated thing was: "The Corvette wheels look really good" and then I would tell them it has the Corvette factory wheel adapters and then they would look a bit further and see the suspension, it was fun to see the look on their faces when they saw the polished Vette suspension pieces.

All in all it was a good weekend and a tough learning experience but that is what happens, right.

So much to do now and I was going to use this time to finish the interior and the engine bay along with the fuel issue but now it is the engine and fuel system as priorities.

I am trying to kick butt and get it back together.

Wish me luck because I am needing it !!

Good news on the cam Jim. Dont rush, I'm still addressing issues after 3 seasons, and still no real interior. Shoot for Motorstate its a more forgiving track, better time of year, and you can make sure everything is up to snuff.

Sorry to hear Jim!

Most of 'us' have been there - done that... at some point.

Love to remind my brother in law (blown small block) "Lean for a day... rich for life".

That statement, of course, is not totally accurate is it. Rich can kill a motor just as fast as a lean one. The difference might be lean breaks parts - rich just kills the cylinder walls and rings... either way - not good! :rofl:

I've killed a couple of motors tuning them.... and I've had a couple of motors killed by tuners. Either way - not good! :willy:

Here is the carnage.

The number one plug had a bent electrode but no cylinder or head damage.

The number 3 had a couple of onces of water but no damage. I can't for the life of me figure out how it got here.

Number 2 piston took out the cylinder wall and the pan. You can see that the pan needs a bit more than the hammer and weld moment you would like. It will take a patch but I have fixed worse in my life.

So post up your opinions.

I think the L82 short block will be good enough. It was considered bullet proof 30 years ago to 7 grand and now they call it weak,lol. The rods have all been deburred and polished and the whole assembly was balanced and blueprinted and it still spins as good as the day it was taken out of the car in 1990. It's hard to believe it is that long ago. It has 8:1 pistons and will cut the power a bit but probably not that much. I can probably pull more out of the program to make up for it and it ran good enough to keep up with my driving skills.

There are bigger pics at PT.com

:cheers:

Water gets in the cylinder a couple of ways --- Head gasket -- or cylinder wall...

I'd be magna-fluxing that block.

8:1 Compression.... Jim -- ya just can't tune that "up".... any cam at all and it's not going to make any cylinder pressure... Are you sure that's the static compression? I've seen blower motors with more compression than that! LOL

Forget the pan... it's a leaker now... hang it on the wall and get good laughs from it. Better yet - hang it in front of a window so the sunlight shines thru!

:cheers: :woot:

I have another pan that I can use for a patch to fix this one, I can't afford to spend the $280 for a new one when I am a more than competent welder to do the job right and I will have an old blown up engine to weld it up on so it fits :rofl:

After gathering my mind back from the, use what you have , mentallity that hits when you just want to drive your car. The short block is not going to work without dished pistons and is worth more as it is with the original heads on it. It is out of a 74 Corvette and should be worth something? To someone looking for a date coded block for a vette it might actually be worth more than I think? It could be worth a grand easily? What do you think? have you seen any prices lately?

I have a couple quotes coming for a good durability block and heads with out the parts I have to use with the cam I have. It isn't going to be cheap stuff but it would make the car a better car for what it is intended and should hold up.

I know I really like driving on the road coarses fast and an engine with better internals is required. I wish I had more time to redo the car to an LS but there is so much more to it than just swapping a long block it would take 2 months for me to do it all by myself and the way things with parts go something would really hold me up or go wrong.

It has been a long day and tommorow should be one more day to recovery.

Well Greg, I think you will feel better knowing I just ordered a new pan. I just don't have the time to fix this one and be ready to go to the Optima Faceoff. i will have to fix it up later and have a spare or as you call it Wall Art.

I have a new engine on the way and it should be here by next wed. It only leaves me 2 days to get it all back in but I think I can do that. The on thing that has to get done is the fuel pickup for sure and I am hoping to get some help with that. I am moving it to the middle so I can keep the tank full and even if the fuel walls up inside it will still cover the pickup. I am also going to put the return in the same place inside a cylinder so it will help keep the fuel level up. I really should have done a better job to start with knowing how much trouble everyone else has had with fuel supply.

I should have the engine out today or tommorow and will start to do the tank over the weekend. I also am going to have my hood stiffened up a bit so it doesn't bow up in the middle at 125mph as much. It is a site to see and even though it opens from the back it just makes you a bit nervous. I have seen fiberglass hoods bow a lot more but I just don't like it.

As long as the engine gets here on time? I think I can make it.:thumbsup:

:rofl:

Jim -

Sounds like you have a plan! Like my daddy always told me: Plan your work and work your plan.

Glad you decided on a nice new piece of art. You don't want to go out there on the track and leak slippery stuff all over your rear tires on a hard corner!

Road racing is the ultimate test for any engine. It's needs more oil volume, better oil control, and you need and oil cooler. An engine that will last a lifetime on the street can grenade in no time. It's really a brutal enviroment with no room for error.

Amen brother mines getting a cooler and accusump.

Jim sounds like a good plan just don't rush it.

I am looking for the spot for the accusump to go. the damn thing is so big and heavy that it is hard to package. I have a lot of room in the rear of the car and may put it there, a longe line is required but it would put some weight in the rear where it is still needed to get 50/50 balance. I have room for a cooler but the car didn't go over 260 oil temp even when pushed to the limit we took it. The instructor was really surprised that the oil pressure and temp were always good and so was I. The Canton road race pan for a vette really do there job.

The new engine may run completely different in temp so we will have to see.

:cheers:

If I have to pass on the weekend with the car I will, I may just drive up in the car and not be in the event. who knows? with all of the cameras around I might get in some pics?

I already miss getting in and starting it to put a smile on my face. The feel of that much power was spoiling me. I think I should have a few more hp and hopefully a bit more torque too, I love torque.

So much to do so little time.

:cheers:

Jim I'm not sure who's car it was, but I saw one put down low in between front of the motor and the radiator. Since your motor is set back maybe it will fit there.

I have eyed that spot many times and always wonder if it would block the air flow around the engine? It is actually the radiator that cools the most instead of the air that goes over the engine so it might work there?

Along the downtube in the engine bay seems like a good spot too.

I do know it is the right thing to put in because it will be needed in those real long hard turns.

The cooler may not be needed but would be a good thing to have.

I keep hoping I get the engine done in time.

:cheers:

I will be picking up the new engine tommorow and am ready to start reassembling everything. The bellhousing is always the most fun and hope it goes easy this time. I already have offset dowels and hope they are the right amount of offset.

I have to get my pilot bearing out of the old engine or get a new one. It went in tight so it might not cooperate,we'll see?


The brakes are flushed with new fluid and feel better than before. If they can survive Road America they should be good for a few more laps and some more setup time.

I have a better program to start up with than the last time and know where to fix it if needed. The computer should keep it out of trouble with the wideband and I will know exactly what the ratio is this time.

I am not sure if I can get it all done right by the weekend but I have a good chance if it all goes back together easy enough.

Hoping for the best

:cheers:

You might try data logging the O2 and the VE -- so you can take a look at how much correction the O2 is having to do. This will also tell you where you have work to do on the VE's.

The amount of correction available can be set to a max of about 25%.

Hope this all goes perfectly for you! :thumbsup:

FYI - if you go to:

http://www.accel-dfi.com/

Look down to the right you will see a streaming video.

Mark Remell prepared this video as a primer to get people in the right direction.

You'll see the 76 Trans Am in the intro with me introducing it - we put the Thruster Gen 7 on that car. WOW! I had Mark do the tune. He spent an afternoon doing the set up, then we road tested it for a couple of hours.

AMAZING. Having a pro-tuner available made life simple. Mark is a good guy and knows these systems inside out - It takes some trial an error to dial them in...but when they are in they are awesome.

When they are off - they are a nightmare.

Good luck Jim I hope it all goes well for you.

That is the beauty of the wideband, datalogging. I think I have a good grasp of the program now to begin to use it the way it can be, there is so much it can do that to be smart enough to use it all would take me a long time to learn.

The bell housing alignment kicked my ass again to get it within .003. The last time it took 3 days too, the bellhousing must have been drilled wrong and I had to actually file the holes a bit to get it to go high enough and have clearance. The holes kept me from going where it had to go.

The new engine is 9.4:1 compression and are 2.02 /1.94 angle plug with 40 more cc more runner size. It should wake it up some more and give it more top end.

I hope to have it up and running tommorow some time if it all goes well.

:cheers:

The new engine is in and it is doing well in its own right but the ignition system is kicking my butt now. I am getting a code 66 which is an overcurrent in the igniton system.

There has been a lot posted at pro touring.com about it and it is a mystery as to how just changing the long block would make it change and give it a code that shuts the ecu down.

The engine now has angle plug heads and the plug wires are in a bit differnent positions. They are Taylor thundervolt wires and are as goos new. The rotor for some reason has gotten as loose as a goose and can move back and forth the distance of the terminal in the cap and it can also rock up and down on the axis of the post of the distributor.

I am getting a new rotor tomorrow and hope to see it be the problem with it dying . The next step is to reroute the wires and get a couple of new ones to make them all the right length they need to be again. The thought is it may be the plug wires causing the over amperage going back to the ecu.

Accel says that the code 66 is caused by a bad coil or 6A box and to replace them both. I did replace them and it did not stop the code 66 from happening. The engine would sometimes run for 20 minutes and sometimes only for a few seconds but it always tries to start up and run.

This has been kicking my butt for a week now.

Any thoughts are welcome and if you have had any experience with the code or similar problem with an Accel system let me know.

It has to be something simple and what it is has to show up sooner or later.

With all the problem you have had Greg do you have any thoughts?

Thanks for any help you can give.

Jim the only thing I can think of that would have changed would be disturbing a ground. Go double check all your grounds for good connections. ie: remove paint at attach point, some gold anti-seize will help the electrical connection at the threads. I did not read other posts hope this is not repeated information.

Make sure your battery is still up to snuff also, again check its ground and positive connections, not to mention the charging circuit. More resistance should lower current draw, but who knows exactly what the ignition system is seeing.

Jim --

Never have had that code.

A couple things come to mind just to toss out there.... make sure your ECM is not near the ignition box... they don't play nice.

Did you ground the block to the chassis etc.

Resistor plugs must be used (as I understand it).

I have that same set of plug wires...

All is good with the grounds and the distance between parts is good.

It all worked before the engine change without having this code come up. it is a simple problem doing it or I have an ecu problem now. But when it runs it seems good so the ignition box and coil along with the sparkplug wires and the whole dizzy setup is causing it somehow.

I should have the new rotor by noon and will know if it is the cause, it had to be replaced anyway to make sure it is not the problem and I have learned to do 1 thing at a time to find the culprit.

Thanks

The new rotor didn't do the trick to get it to run. It started for about 20 seconds and then code 66'd again. I almost hought it would be good to go and I would be lucky and smiling again.

I am going to redo the plug wires to make them right and eliminate any possiblity for them to be the culprit.

The engine builder talked to Accel again today and the concensus is that the ecu was taken out by trying to keep starting it with a possible bad coil and 6a box. One good answer from ASSHELL would have kept it from happening.

I think I just might call it ASSHELL DFI from now on !!!! They have earned it don't ya think?

I will be pulling it out for the 2nd time to go back and be tested. How much do you want to bet they say it is good. If they admit it is bad and by their fault for not giving the right info when I called about the code 66 the moment it happened and couldn't find any info on their site or directions as to what that code is caused by.

I hate feeling like I am whining about this but I have to get it out or it is going to make me sick inside trying to keep my anger and frustration in.

I want to thank all of you who are helping, I would really go crazy without some kind of support group.

Now I just have get past the depressing part of ripping the car apart again to get it out.:(

Efi
 

Hi Guys,

Allow me to introduce myself. I'm the guy on the Accel website that does their "How-To" DVD. I've also done 2 mag articles with one of your other members, 1 in Corvette Enthusiast, the other in Pontiac Enthusiast.

Read all the posts, sorry for your troubles. But I have to say some of your problems are not the fault of Accel, but of your tuner.

Unfortunately it is an industry problem, but I've heard many people say the same support claims with FAST, Big Stuff and others. Too few good tuners out there that aren't in it for a quick buck.

If in the future any of you have a problem I'll be happy to help. If you call Accel and mention me, the rest will speak for itself. I don't know everything but I've done about 30 different applications, blown unblown and just about everything in between.

Good luck!!

P.S. If you want to drive your vehicle, IMO there isn't a better system out there for the money, period.

It's good to hear from someone at Accel who seems to care, there needs to be more interaction on the forums from all of the efi manufactures so that more of us guys who can't or don't want to spend a lot of money can get in the game.

Please pm me your name and number so I can call you. I am intersted to know what part of the tune could do such a thing? I would have considered this a parts problem or an installation problem. How it could go bad just from going to a different long block and no other real changes is a mystery to all of us.

I look forward to some actual real help from an Accel representative, afterall it is the company you work for and who else should know or care more than you !!!!

Hopefully things are going in the right direction and Supremeefi is going to get me further in my quest.

The ecu will be the key to what happened, if it is still good then the protective circuit will have done it's job, if it is bad then it will still need to be addressed as to why the ignition did what it did and finding the problem will still have to be done.He has never experienced a code 66 so it is a learning experience for him too.

He now has all the specs of my engine and a history of my programs so the direction things go will hopefully work out for the best. I keep hoping that he has already tuned an engine with the same cam and engine configuration and he has a program that will be a better base to go from.

It is nice to have an Accel EMIC stepping up to help. He has a lot to live up to when it comes to this unit, the way it has seemed to be possesed may prove to be a challenge for him since it is not the programming that is the problem rather it is the unit functioning well that that poses the problems. Let's all wish him luck with it since it has kicked ass on everyone it has come in contact with,LOL.

Jim,

You are in good hands now. Mark is passionate about tuning. I would have been lost without him. While the system performed well out of the box, Mark brought the full potential out. He has taken the time to go deep inside the tuning software and has a natural feel for how these things should run.

I was fortunate enough to have him do an in-car tune using the full system including the wide band unit. He made that Pontiac 400 run smooth as a LS3.

I'm sure he'll help get this figured out.

Just got of the phone with Mark and I am already looking forward to the future with my setup.

He has sent me a program to show me the difference in what I have to what I need and it is night and day in some areas.

I also found that I had a good handle on things and was moving in the right direction but was in the wrong boat so to speak. Now I have a bigger boat, maybe even a speed boat,lol.

I still have to get the parts working but the programming is going to be a lot better when I start it back up.

I will keep you all up to date as things progress.

I am going to concentrate on the engine bay and interior for the next week or so until the ecu gets back and then get back on the engine.

:cheers:

It has been a good week for making some progress, one step back 2 steps forward .

Went to fix the horn and turn signal problem and pulled the column out and tried to put in the other wiring harness and turn signal horn assembly and once it was out I would have had to tear apart the whole damn thing to replace it. The splines were a bit worn and the whole thing was just to much time to mess with only to have an old column. I found a place to rebuild it but that was about $200 and more than 1/2 way to a new one. Ididit wanted $640 for a new custom one and Flaming River wanted $440. I called my local HotRod Shop and asked what he could do on a Flaming River column since he is a dealer and I lucked out. He had a 30" column in stock and I went and looked at it compared to my modified column. The one he had was a double d just like I needed and he said I could take it home and see how it fit. I was delighted to find it was just what I needed and only $330. It moved the wheel toward the dash just like I wanted to do and still have room to tilt it. In a matter of an hour I had it mocked up and had my turn signals and horn working. the only thing I didn't like was the same thing the guy that returned it back into his stock didn't like, the mount let it hang down 1/2" too low. The mount was $80 and I was not going to pay that for it and be like it was. So I bought a piece of aluminum from Metal Express and made my own and raised it too. I will post a pic later of it.

I also finally bought some new inner fenders to make the front end a bit nicer. Now I have to modify them to work and am pondering how I want to tackle the job.

The best news of the week was when Accel called and told me that the ecu had a problem in the board with the est and other places. The Accel 6a box was still good and they also told me that it wasn't anything I did to cause it all. They replaced the board at no charge for the board and said they were sending it back out friday. So if I am lucky it will be here Monday and more than likely tuesday.

I am looking forward to getting it back in and getting it running again. It sure will be nice to drive it and finish breaking the engine in.

I should have a good running car by the weekend and be able to enjoy going to see friends and cruise a bit. I don't think I will be going to the Midwest Challenge since it is 5 plus hrs away but I might get brave and go see everyone?

So the mystery as to what caused it all was just the board going bad on it's own and I guess that is the way it goes.

The new tilt wheel is looking good and I don't know whether to paint it or not but it looks good 2 tone. I'll post up some pics of it too a bit later.

Things are looking up for now and we will see how the new board works when it gets back in.

:cheers:

The new board works good so far ,it didn't cost me anything but shipping so they treated me right and the new tune from Mark is doing good for starters and is forming up with a few touches in the lower end and the drivability is pretty good. I can drive at 30 mph/1000 rpm in 6th and give it gas with no problem. has good midrange so far and haven't really wound it up under torque real far yet.

Good weather for the weekend and who knows? I might head down to the MMCC if the car feels up to it. 5.5 hrs away is a long way for a maiden voyage.

It feels good to be back on the road and there is a lot to do yet but I think we will just take it easy and get the rest of the things done and enjoy. I pushed it to the limit to see how it would go and found plenty of stuff that is good and other things need improvement and then the stuff that just has to be worked around.

I need to get back into my Racepak and get it upgraded to the latest and the greatest they have now and get the screens reconfigured to more of an information center than a warning/monitoring gauge on each screen . Learning to move the information around and view it is the next step. Setting up track configurations and just getting lap times would be nice so I could record it all and use it to its full capability, lots to learn coming up.

:cheers:

Good to hear Jim... glad it's working out. Accel is a good manufacturer and I'm happy they found the issue with your system.

:thumbsup:

Thats good to hear Jim.