I don't!! Don't get me wrong -- it's always hard to impart "attitude" in a blog - or post -- I'm having FUN discussing this... I'm not trying to beat you down or prove my point -- RATHER -- I'm discussing how truly difficult it is... not saying you can't or you won't - or anything like that. My apologies if that's the way I came across!

well ive been racing cars for awhile and breaking parts along the way, i know that my goals are VERY large and not easy to obtain but i think that is kind of the cool part about it. I personally don't mind driving a complicated transmission on the street (I'm sure my trans choice will make a lot of ppl say "racecar") but its better then breaking a T56 every few months. A nice BBC and procharger, the right gear, and suspension i don't see why one of these cars wont be able to go well into the 8's and at least 210mph in the standing mile. My Viper with only 800ish at the tires went 207 on the limiter, if i had a taller tire or different gear it would have went faster.

The combo will just have to be nailed, the only thing i cant really figure out as of now is the wheel/tire combo for the street and Mile runs and what to do about Aero, if anything. This is where i could really use some advice, i know Big Red was able to achieve well over 200mph but that was over a longer stretch of road then I'm trying to do it on.

I have read of this event and you are very correct, alot of the cars barely or don't make it through the cruise section of the event. Lets face it a drag car is a drag car, they are very specific to a task. At least when you are building a PT car it has similar atributes to a road/track car, stance wide tires ect. The drag race guys HATE turns!

And the PT guys hate short straightaways..... this is an old topic for sure. But everyone has very good points. The only way to do it all is to either build two (or three) different cars, or decide what you like doing best and build for that. I've gone too far with my 95 to enjoy it alot on the highway, but can still do a highway trip no problem with the T56. This is a 9-second car, and still has full leather interior. But it's not quiet.... hence not overly enjoyable on a trip. The 69 will be quiet, have AC, T56, and stereo and WILL be enjoyable to drive everywhere and go around corners. It is funny I'm making the 69 everything that the 95 WAS..... IQ of a houseplant right here. But it will never be a track car because that necessitates removing all the options and weight. Remember that. Settle for only one goal.... or buy three cars!

I think vinnie has a set of forgelines with street tires, and he has a ccw drag pack with skinnies in the front. I haven't watched that video in a while so all i remembered was 9:somthin,somthin. I think it's unrealistic to get a car on (real) street tires in the 9's. A 9:98's still pretty good considering he does well in the autocross :yes:

Big Red used to hit about 222mph or something like that many years ago. Off the top of my head I think he hit 204ish mph in the mile. Some of the 1 mile venues will only allow specific tires once your speeds get higher, so be carefull and check with them first. I have a similar engine combo (581bbc with a F2) built for high speed road racing/drag/one mile events in a second gen camaro and done lots of research on aero. I also talked to Keith Turk who held records in land speed racing and I believe he recomended the drag radial, I bought the M/T 345/35/18's. I'll change them to something else if I have to before I go. He also recomended as low as possible in the front with a slight rake to the back and some speed rated thin tires up front. The bigger tires probably will help you get off the line but they will end up hurting top end, and since its speed based not time based, smaller may be a little better. The other issue is the gearing and the most likely for me was going to be a gear vendor and some 3.00 or 2.80 gears. There are so many factors I could go on and on.... :cheers:

Keep in mind you are on the Latera-G forum and the G is for handling. So guys here are looking for somethig that handles and runs the dragstrip.

It would really take some serious talent and ingenuity to do 8 second ET's, handling to compete with the best PT cars, 200 mile Maxton and total streetability.

The Trans Am was brought up, but as mentioned that car never really did road coarse or autocross that we know of. At least not that any of use seen. Seemed like more of a sledge hammer with 18s on it to me.

Vinny is king right now as I have seen that car kick ass on the autocross, WIN the autocross, and be the fastest car at the dragstrip to. I suspect if he lowers that dragstrip number to 9.60 as Jake is predicting (and i agree), I think someone better do some serious planning to knock that off.

All I know is you guys are making me want to knock the dust of my street drag car, that's for sure!

You've been saying that since I met you.:P

I think you'd need an unfair advantage to pull that off.

jp

Yes I think you would need a real unfair advantage, hey guys :unibrow:

Greg

i don't know how things are at the Maxton Mile but at the Texas Mile you have to be on a Zrated tire. If im not mistaken no no drag radials are speed rated. Its looking like the hoosier R6 is the best option as of now, just trying to get a wheel narrow enough for the rear so it doesn't look goofy. Do you own the 2nd gen with the funny car style hoops in the cage? Car looks like its going to be a total monster with a very similar motor/FI combo to me, what trans is going to go in it? and what rear end gear?

That is my car yes, and so far a special built turbo 400 with gear vendor is leading my choices but is not yet purchased. Probably with 2.8 gears and the M/T drag radials wich are about 27.5" tall.

Looking forward to seeing it, someone posted on Corvetteforum that your thinking about moving from a blow through to FI. You think a TH400 will live up to the abuse of a "street" car? Ive seen Rossler builds some high hp ones but ive never seen how long they lived. The fastest Viper in the Texas Mile ever was running a powerglide/gear vendors combo. Thats what ill be moving to if i dont like my Lenco.

I'm also pretty sure they have let people use drag radials at texas, you may want to contact them and ask. Never hurts to call.

There's a member called "the camtender" with a '68 Camaro that runs 9.70, 175 mph at the texas mile event, and has run open road races.

http://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49192

I have considered FI but not untill I try everything with the carb. (my little friend likes to talk a lot) The Rosslers seem to last very well on the street behind a high horsepower engine from what I hear. They can also make it like a standard in that you have 'engine braking' to aid in road race type events unlike it would be for drag racing. ;)

Yup Shocked runs DIFFERENT wheels and tires because it is wholly unreasonable and unsafe to run 9's on short sidewall street tires. No other parts are changed on the car except for the wheels and tires. So with just the help of a lug wrench, Vin drives the car on the street, has tracked the car at Pocono and Road Atlanta, won the last Year One Autocross, runner-upped at Run Thru The Hills 4 and clicked off a 9.98. It also was one of Camaro Performer's top 10 last year.

The car is an-in-your-face showcase for the versatility of Ridetech's Street Challenge Air Suspension and Twist Machine's manumatic technology.

Air springs and automatics work in pro-touring. Vinnie and Shocked also puts on one hell of a show for the crowd. He will be back out this year at Motor State and Run Thru the Hills.

Here is an autocross vid.
/Steevo

a group of us from DFW go every year, they will allow a DR but you will not be able to pass tech in for 190+. Thats why i switched from my DR's to my normal street wheels with Nitto Invos this past October. It seems like every year they are getting stricter and stricter on tech in :mad:

Full manual valve body is some very cool stuff. :thumbsup: From talking to Steve Morris he likes a carb a lot and it simplifies everything. Im sure you've made the same phone calls i have. I'll eventually be switching to FI but i want to shake the car down before i go that route. FI will yield much better street manors and mpg in most scenarios.


BTW in that vid is that the TCI 6spd auto with paddle shifters

I did talk to Steve Morris many times. I Got all my procharger stuff from him.
Good to know about the drag radials there. I had considered the Hoosiers as well. I'm sure I'll wear out my first set of tires in initial testing before I do any 1 milers anyway. :cheers:

Looking forward to seeing it! Are you going to make it for the October event?

I am trying and finally getting somewhere, but its been costly and I want to try and stay married. lol
I will post on here when I am ready. I was hoping for some testing in mid summer so October may work out.

Looking forward to seeing it run. If you ever come through DFW and need some help with something just let me know :thumbsup:

Will do! Thanks. :cheers:

Vinny's car is the sh*t! I love how the car can do anything with a simple tire/wheel change. Seems like the airride is the most versitile set up for drag/handling car. Has my wheels turning now.....

I agree with "The lumpy carbureted large displacement big block might cause some people to argue about it being 'pro-touring". Exactly what I was thinking. It sounded nasty when it was staging in the video. Don't think that would be very user friendly from stop light to stop light in 90 degree heat. Last thing we need is another "what is pro-touring" debate, but I would think "in traffic" driveability would have to be a must.

Lots of ppl daily drive BBC combination's. Yes i agree that an LSx is more officiant but in some situations its just not optimum. Ive had several really powerful build LS's but in an old school car trying to make big power a BBC would probably be ideal. i wonder what the weight difference is on a all Alum BBC combo vs. an iron blocked LS. For an 800hp build its hard to beat a nice built LS3 :)

220 mph is very fast for something as brick like as big red, what power were they running? I'd also be worried about 40 yr old aerodynamics at those speeds

something like a mclaren F1 does the top speed side of things but stuggles to do 11s in standard trim IIRC,

If it was easy --- the fat chicks could do it!

Thus my point at the very beginning of this thread... but this thread has been hijacked WAY AWAY from the OP....

I would "think" that in "drag race trim" -- such as shown in the video of Vinnies car -- the HEADERS are uncorked... and in that trim with drag radials on it turned in a 9.98 qtr....

BUT (BIG BUT) to me THAT ENDS the argument for PT -- because PT would use the tires that they went to the grocery store in AND have the stereo on -- and the exhaust system intact.

:cheers:

I forgot my "point" I was going to make in the above post ---- That this same car (Vinnies) with the exhaust hooked up --- and "street tires" wouldn't get close to a 9.98 and might even be a full second slower.... with bad 60ft times - and less top end charge... So the OP might be debatable as I seriously doubt the ability to run "9's" in true PT trim.

Now this should start some good debate!! Pulling the pin on the grenade.... "in coming!!" :woot:

Greg, there is this little button down in the lower right hand corner called "edit". :unibrow: I don't have a problem with having a spare set of wheels and tires for drag racing or road racing etc. I went with the R888' due to the fact I felt they would work everywhere including the street. Now all the events are going to be 200 treadwear. :rolleyes:

Yeah -- I could have saved a few emails with the edit button... :willy:

Todd -- This thread could go on forever.... and I keep trying to return to the original post -- which was "is there PT cars in the 9's"?

You pointed out yourself - that the WHOLE POINT of a PT car - is -- good handling - high hp - quick - A/C - Stereo - drive without issues.... go to dinner with the girls

This thread turned into 8 second - 200 mph race car discussion.... :rofl: :rofl:

So the real answer is NO you can't (or can't at this particular time) run legit 9's or 8's - and do corners too.... and go to dinner or drive in the Vegas heat in the summer... with the SAME SET UP - TIRES/WHEELS/EXHAUST.... hit the key back out of the driveway and get groceries and stop at the Auto X on the way home... and win a trophy at the local car show... and beat the snot out of that full race nitrous caged Vega....

Now - where's my cup of coffee? Oh yeah -- a PT car has to have cup holders too!! :rofl: :rofl:

Damn...I'll have to pick up one of those door panel cup holders.:lol:

I have a couple - you want billet or black plastic? :rofl:

I have drag raced and dare I admit back in the day, street raced enough to have a idea of what maybe could be done. I have a friend that has a RX7 that runs Cheapo Pep Boys Special street tires and consistantly runs mid nines, and picks pockets of slick tired cars street racing.

I do not think the OP meant 9s on street tires.

But here is what I think about tires. I think a car could go nines in the right car on 220 wear PT tire. It would be a run that started with a 1.70 short time and MPH like a mother out the back door. I would not be surprised if Vinny sprayed 300 in progression on his car that he could do it as he is a hell of a driver. It would have to be a 9.99 at 155MPH though to do it, and it would be as Steve O mentioned, dangerous at minumum.

All the Vettes and Vipers running 9s, 8s, are all on slicks / DOT drag radials so I think they are acceptable for us also

BTW, thanks to this thread I just order Forgelines and 18" Drag Radials for my street racer. Forgeline is making me 18 X 12s for the 345/35/18 drag radials, 18 X 8.5 for the front and the first set of 17 X 4 (yes 17 X 4) for my drag skinneys! I am draging it out of 3 year storage, going to do tire and brake swap first, get it dialed in, make sure it runs the numbers on the new tires and the suspension that is in it, then start looking at making a few changes to make it go around corners!

Here is one of my last races. I drove 30 miles to a gathering at a shopping plaze where 50 cars met, then we all cruised 25 miles to the track and drew names out of a hat, lined em up till the last two were standing. The last 2 standing was me and the Nova.

Yeah, I get beat (by 3 feet) by the 1600 horse, 7.70 alcohol injected heavy street car. But I left on him and gave him all he could stand!

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u...stGodzilla.jpg

Good action Frank!!!

Todd loves it when you spend his money.... :rofl:

BTW --- I want to continue to try (note the TRY) to bring this thread back to the original discussion... Frank you pointed this out yourself -- that the G in Lat G is for turning not the amount of G's you get from the launch at the drag strip...

REAL TIRES -- REAL COMFORT -- REAL STREET..... AND be competitive in MULTIPLE venues -- Auto X - Road course - STOPPING - Turning.... and going to the grocery store... or doing Power Tour.... and getting a trophy now and then at the car shows...... To me (which doesn't mean squat) that's Lat-G/PT cars...

Note I'm saying "COMPETITIVE" (different from being the best in one or the other) -- in MULTIPLE venues.... The OP hasn't come back in here to explain the bet --- but I'm betting the Drag guy in the post is talking what we're talking here -- a REAL PT car -- in street driven trim. I'm also betting this is why -- or at least PART of the reason that the Optima USCI has changed the rules to make the tires more "street" run versions.

Boy, there is nothing I find more irritating than armchair quarterbacking. Twist Machine always preaches: "Get your car done and drive it". We practice what we preach. By suggesting that the car is uncorked AFTER I plainly stated that the only hardware turned were lug nuts, you're also calling me a liar. That's not what I call a debate.

The car in that video in NOT uncorked. Vinnie likes loud exhaust. Crowds at our pro-touring events like the loud exhaust as well. 9.98 is NOT a 10 second run. 9.98 is a 9 second run. Mathematicians decided long ago that a 9 is a 9 and a 10 is a 10. They did so without your help.

Your fuzzy logic undermines and insults all of the hard work and expense that went into designing building and running that car.

Steve --

Nobody called you a liar.... and who can remember every DETAIL written in a thread with this many posts?

Nobody was making light of the build... quality wise or anything else. I personally commented on how cool it was more than once.

9.98 is INTO the 9's ---- not "9's"... Saying "9's" IMPLIES that it's closer to 9.0 than 10... and that is a semantic argument that is "stretching the truth". In ALL MY YEARS (likely before you were born) of drag racing and being with the very best of the best in drag racing WE never discussed "9's".... it was ALWAYS... "he runs 9.8's or he runs 8.4's...." because real drag racers know full well that a 9.98 is no where near a car that can run 9.2's. AND in the lower brackets (I actually worked for a number of YEARS at Portland International Raceway - and my room-mate RAN the track) a time statement was carried further -- to not MIS STATE a cars capability -- as in "he runs 9.98 on drag radials" --- which would say he CAN NOT do that on street tires! And if someone had to change rear gears to get there -- that was ALSO part of the statement....as in "he runs 9.98's on drag radials with 4:88's" -- because the car would be vastly different in street trim. Now that we all know that Vinnie ran 9.98 with full exhaust and only a tire change -- and that the car can turn too -- I will say again -- NICE BUILD....

This is a discussion -- interesting - informative - fun... relaxed. ADD to the info and have some fun. You built a great car and should be very proud of it.

Greg, I think you are right only to a certain degree. The whole factor is $cost$. With supercharged, turbo set ups it is completely possible to get deep into the 9's and be classified as (perform)"a true protouring car". Look at Tom Nelson... This guy is insane (in a good way) and makes his living on doing engines & PT cars (as well as others) that can have insane street manners, incredible handling & braking and big power on the track. A t56, heat treated & cryo treatment if built correctly can handle well over 1200hp& 1000ft lbs, but again "cost". A 4L80E with a gear vendor overdrive and a paddle shift can handle 1500hp if done right.

Now comes the factor? what's the budget limitation & time? There is so much to offer in the aftermarket out there it can be done and well done easy... Fesler, Prodigy, Gearhead and others would love someone (and they probably already have) to say that this is what they want and go build it and oh, by the way here's 300k along with it with your bonus included... :D

Interesting thread:thumbsup:

Blessings,
AMS