great thread

Has anyone been in a TCI car with the softer rate springs? When tested, they were 450/325# (back in 09), now they are 350/250? Would it be similar ride quality to the speedtech 450/220 set-up?

Thanks

I think the problem with the whole subframe debate is people buying them for the wrong reason or buying what is supposedly talked about as being the best thing since sliced cheese. Remember when if you didn't have a Wayne Due frame you couldn't turn a corner?? But then he mysteriously disappeared.

I know there is probably no way to do a part to part comparision but a guide with real answers side by side would help.

Weight of frame fully loaded?
Ride height adjustment?
Total caster and camber adjustment?
what type and style of bushings used?
What type of rack?
What brakes adaptable to spindle?
Type of sway bar and adjustability?

Those are just a few. If you do not know what you need out of the above you are probably just buying because it is a shiny new expensive must have part. Let's not forget many a race won modifying stock parts. The subframes give you the ability to get to that point faster and easier.

Would I buy a subframe that uses cheap ultra small Mustang 2 bushings? No Would I buy a subframe that uses heim joints throughout on a real driven car? No.

There is no winner unless you know what you want. If you want a slammed on the ground never ran car there are also plenty of options.

Brian,

What suspension systems do you run? (what car do you have)

What purpose does you car serve, and why did you choose the parts that you used?

Have you ridden in a stock suspension LX or LY SRT8? They have a very comparable ride quality with the 350/250 springs.

Slow4dr,

I have not ridden in one, but would imagine the ride is firm, but compliant. Not something that would wear on someone too badly.

I also do road trips with my car, so a decent ride is important to me (300-500 miles in a weekend).

Thank you for the input, I appreciate it.

I have Total Control Products Front Coil-Over suspension and the TCI torque-arm rear with springs rates 450/250. Though I cant yet comment on the performance driving aspects of the ride, the cruising side is comfortable. My cars weight is 3300lbs with driver and a full tank of gas with 51/49 split if that helps.

Have you been happy with their coil overs (did you get the singles or the doubles?)

Thanks

Singles. Still getting to know them.

GrabberGT,

Are you running the TCI Coil overs? If so, how do they compare to the ridetechs or QA1's?

Thanks

Nice, informative thread. It all comes down, I think, to personal preference and finances.
The comparison of subframes (the most reputable ones , at least) is similar to comparing a BMW 5 Series to a Benz E-Class, if you will. Some will say the Benz handles and rides better, and some will say the BMW is more comfortable and has more power, or vice versa.
Bottom line is, both are great cars, comparable in price and amenities and they are more than capable of yielding very similar results, overall. Which would you spend your money on? Same as the subframes...personal preference...for the same basic design, they ALL pretty much do the same thing. All be it, some do things better than others, but they also lack where others excel.

This is coming from a guy that purchased a Martz Chassis sub-frame a loooong time ago, because of budget issues and the only real competition at that time was Wayne Due, and he was so swamped, he wasn't taking on any more orders.

My Martz Chassis works well. I can't compare it to any of the others, as I don't own any of the rest. But I can say that I have rode in a DSE sub-framed Camaro, Jim Meyer sub-framed Camaro, a TCI Camaro, and a modified-stock sub-framed 69 Nova. To me, the Jim Meyer sub-frame was the best ride out of all of them....even my Martz.

DSE seems to be the most popular, i'm guessing, because of the publicity and so forth. I like the complete system that they offer. And I see a lot more DSE equipped cars than the others, out here in Cali. Just an observation.


If I had to do it all over again, I would go with an Art Morrison set-up, due to the fact that it has a lot of stock GM parts that can be replaced locally, quick and inexpensively.


Just my .02 :thumbsup:

Actually am running Varishocks front and rear. I have no experience with the others to make a comparison.

okay i toss in my 3 cents here.

Here is my take on it. If the goal is to build a great car that does well at the track and you want to have plenty of money left over. People really need to look at Hotchkis, Bell Tech, Speed Tech & Ride Tech.

1. Hotchkis, Bell Tech, Speed Tech & Ride Tech -- Front Suspension
You can swap out the parts on your driveway and car is never down
Cost is increadible inexpensive compared to a full frame swap

2. Hotchkis, Bell Tech -- Rear Suspension
Yep once again on your driveway

3. Ride Tech ( Coil Ride )
Minimal welding needed on the rear suspension.
Fully Adjusable and easy to install

One very important thing to consider if you don't have a bunch of money. I repeat NEVER, did I say NEVER every take your car apart further then simple bolt on modifications. If you do you are opening pandora's box and you may never get your car back together.

Trust me I seen tons of projects end up being sold because people lost interest and or money. In most case these cars should have never been taken apart in the first place. Taking a car apart in the "CHEAPEST" part of the project. Finding time and money to put it back together is the most expensive part of any project.

Just look at Mary's Camaro with minimal money against a full blown $20,000 DSE chassis car. That lady ain't doing so bad in my book. I betting you Mary & Dave are really sharp for a reason and they can afford to eat place's that don't have a dollar menu.

My personal choice for my next project is Ride Tech's new Coil-Over Set up and a good set of Brakes from Kore3. For the money how can you beat it.

If I really needed a subframe my first choice would be SpeedTech then Art Morrison. If you were to damage any of the parts it's just a quick trip to the local parts store to get parts.

That being said cosmetically the DSE stuff is just beautiful but it's just not in the budget on my next project. I need to keep some money for my kids college education.

One more thing that's cool about Ride Tech - who else would sell a Billet Yo Yo !!!!!

https://www.ridetech.com/store/index...confirmation=Y

http://www.ridetech.com/store/images...d/IMGP0130.jpg

and there you have it from the guy who just finished his project, and probably has a good idea what he is talking about:thumbsup:

You couldn't have said it better. Been there Done that.

I learned a bunch building Syborg and where and how to save money. Really how many people actually have the time to hit all the events that require you to have a full blown track car. People have lost perspective and really guys most of us are building a car that we are going to drive back and fourth to work and hit a few shows a year.

Get in them and drive them and keep some of that money in your pocket for other things. Maybe even some new parts for the car or even a paint job.