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I love this idea! A friend of mine owns a off-road shop and has talked about this same idea for the jeep community. I know that there are a lot of sub-frames for Camaros, but most are expensive. I would love to have a DIY part that is cheaper than the others with the added clearance of a new subframe.
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I'm not sure this is practical or not, but what about offering a jig for it, also in kit form?
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screw the tri5 guys...... send me a chevelle chassis!!
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:) i was waiting for that :willy:
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Rodger; A real DIY guy will find a way to make something work if he really wants it bad enoungh.He will take some of the money saved on the chassis and build a make shift jig if thats what he thinks he needs.He use that saved money on the upgraded welder he's been wanting.He does not sit on his ass in front of the pc dogging someone elses new idea.He looks at it takes something from it and uses it for hinself.The internet is flooded w/ socalled experts that dont know sh*t.So to make themselves feel good about having no fabrication or design skills they dog a nice idea or or someones fabicated parts.I love the Idea of a diy kit.I have thought of doing the same for the camaro frt sub frame for 1st. & 2nd. gen camaro's.Keep up the great work.Scott.:thumbsup: :hail:
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Thanks Scott, Eric ( Hwy Nova ) did the technical difficult work I just spit out the ideas. I have been amazed that it goes together so well with nothing more then a big table. We TIG welded this frame together moving the heat around and have not experience much distortion. I really think we might be on to something they have been doing this in the off road business for a few years now with round tube chassis's. they just need a solid table to build off of.
Once I get the remaining parts finalized and worked into the drawing we will ship a few out to some guys to test. I guess we will find out if we are that good or how easy it really is. The last 4 frames we have done like this were easy as pie on a 5x10 steel table with no fixtures of jig to speak of. |
I can see a downside. Some cheap ass buys it along with a new welder and goes to town and it's all tweaked. I'd certainly cover my aise with some instructions on how to weld it with settings, moving around while welding, and break time. We all know just how inept the general public can be.
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Very funny how you get your Knickers in a Knot if people dont approve of you 'Desiiign & Engineeering' dare i say....!
Oh what about the Engineeering.... hmmm Any real world testing? Hmmm Nothing... If they screw up welding this and comes off the road hurting himself or Others? Public Liability Heard of that? I cant wait to see the rest of it :thumbsup: |
Rodger; It's ideas like this that made this country great.The hot rod hobby is a great place to be involed in right now.A diy hot rodder can order some bad as$ suspenion parts now or a guy can see what some of the top builder are doing and try to do the same himself.THERES NO RULES IN HOT RODDING.Build what you want and have a good time.Some of the neatest ideas come out of the garages of guy's like Mark Steilow.:thumbsup:
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I also thought about not selling the suspension until the frame passes a visual test..... Selling a dumb ass a 1000hp crate engine has to be a bigger risk then selling a guy a DIY frame.... |
Rodger have you thought about including fixtures to keep the tolerances correct? After you tack it together you installed 3 or 4 cross braces in specific locations (make it like the body mounts so you can't screw it up). That way you know that when "Jimmy" goes to town with the 110 welder at least the geometry will be correct. Because you know a DIY'r is going to assemble and weld it on the garage floor.
For example Kyle @ DSE developed a jig for their 1st gen coilover conversion. You bolt the jig into the engine mount holes and it locates the brackets for you. |
That is the idea we are using. The rear crossmember behind the bumper is 1.5" tubing we cut that piece to 40.75 and cap both ends and slide the open holes on the end of the chassis onto that piece of tube and weld it flush on the outside and you now have aligned the rear of the chassis and set the width. We also use the lower link mount for the 4 link that is in the chassis. Plus the front crossmember tabs through the inside and out plate of the frame rail.
You guys should build a Tri-5 with one of these chassis's. Tracy was talking about getting one to see what the dream weaver could do in an upholstry shop. |
Hey Rodger,
I've been thinking about doing something like this at work but this would certainly save me a ton of time. Anyone know if the mounting locations are the same between the Chev and the Pontiac? -J Unmolested :thumbsup: http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e2...n/100_1292.jpg |
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We have checked hard top and sedan and will be doing a Convertible very soon. I have not done a wagon yet, but that is the one I have been told is just a bit different. I guess that would be a good point in selecting a my testers. I have had an over whelming response from people wanting to try these frames out.
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Just to answer some peoples questions here are some assembly pics of a rail going together.
http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/t...rch2010147.jpg http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/t...rch2010148.jpg http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/t...rch2010149.jpg http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/t...rch2010151.jpg http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/t...rch2010144.jpg http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/t...rch2010154.jpg http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/t...rch2010153.jpg |
Customcam, do you own or drive a 55-57 chevrolet? Rodger seems by all appearances to be a stand up guy, he has throughly explained the system, that it's 'in progress', it was engineered, and it's obviously not for an amature that just purchased a used welder on ebay.
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We have a very friendly forum here, and we are not the world police. Rodger has the credentials, the builds, the coverage, the business, the web presence, the awards...that equals credibility.I live on the other end of the USA from Rodger,and I don't have a horse in this race, but I have followed this thread. Enough is enough. |
Just to follow up on what Jim was saying above...
If somebody does not think that they have the skill to assemble this - then there is no need for them to buy it. If you are not a competent welder you can warp a stock subframe (or full frame) without due care and attention and - if you are that person - I would suggest that a DIY kit is not something that you should invest in. On the other hand - if you have basic welding skills or access to a skilled welder then this frame may be exactly what you are looking for... Very cool Rodger - great innovation - I can't wait to see in at Del Mar. |
I think it's a great idea. I can see some of the downsides or the potential liabilities but that exists in almost anything.
I do have a question though. How hard is it to make the bends needed with the rails? The metal is 0.125" thick which isn't huge but isn't thin either. It appears that a 180* bend is needed for the ends and the underside of the rail at the axle looks to be a fairly difficult to pull off. Is this something that can be done with C-clamps and vises easily? Keep innovating Rodger and keep us updated on a 2nd gen offering :D |
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Get a grip Customcam. This thread was started not to announce a new product, but to continue the prototyping process of a potential new product. Rodger is looking for the feedback from real world DIY folks so that he can truly evaluate the positive and negative points of this product. Make no mistake, Rodger will not release it until it is correct. Just curious, what are your credentials with regard to this subject? I also do not have a horse in this race, but I do follow threads like this. I think is is superb that Rodger would put this out to real folks looking for feedback. As they say once you put it out there you can't take it back. Rodger is putting it on the line doing something like this. I applaud him for it. |
Rodger,
I think this is fantastic and really good idea!!! With laser cut pieces it goes together like legos. And just think how much easier is it to ship on pieces vs full size frame! |
customcam just seems to have issue with rodger and was just chomping at the bit to attack him... just look through his previous post in anything regarding rodger or ironworks...I know rodger saw all his post in this thread and just didnt address(well direct at least:lol:)) them because he knows theres no real validity behind his post. i actually found it funny that he kept post even though know one even responded to him.:rolleyes:
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One more thing Rodger, 55 frame horns are different than 56 and 57 horns which are the same.
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I was more curious about the differences between the Chev and Pontiac than the difference in body styles. The front suspension for the Chev is completely different than for the Pontiac but the rear is the same so I am hopeful the body mounting points are the same.
-J FYI: I read the thread at Tri-5 and I thought I would throw this out there since I saw something mentioned about it. TCI uses two fixtures to build a chassis, one fixture for the rail itself and one fixture for the frame once the rails are built to spec. If the rails or chassis are more than 1/16" out front to back the rails are scrapped. |
Very cool idea Rodger. I hope you get the feedback you need to keep moving forward with this. Best of luck to you and the crew.:thumbsup:
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"knickers"......wadda dumbass!!! BTW I know who you are customcam.........:drama: John |
[QUOTE=novanutcase;277127]:lol:
"knickers"......wadda dumbass!!! BTW I know who you are customcam.........:drama: John[/QUOTe Tell me you little ****. John guess what you just did? You just threatened me.. Good on your John |
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Hahaha!!! Y'all better watch it or I'ma get EVIL on yo azzes!!!:lol: John |
send me one I have the car I know a little about welding this setup.:yes: :yes:
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Okay lets end all the speculation.
Roger send me one i'll weld it in the garage, I won't use any tools that a DIY doesn't have, then I'll send it back to you. You can measure it all out. And post the results. I think its a real neat piece that could make a DIY look like a pro to his friends when he is finished. |
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Great Idea! Love it
I absolutely love this idea. My Dad and I can't quit talking about it. I had heard you were working on this idea some time ago. I'm glad to see it all coming together.
My Dad wants one of these frames for his 57 Ford F100!!!!! He loves to fab and weld and would really enjoy welding one of these up - I would too! I'm sure the oddball stuff (ie Ford Truck) is way down on the list, as it should be - you gotta go where the volume is. What is the possibility for low volume stuff? Obviously the developmental cost would be spread over fewer products which would potentially result in a higher price. Just wondering if that is a possibility down the road. Keep up the good work. |
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