Well Nigel, if my car was done then I'd have something to add. Kinda hard to compete with just a garage full parts. :rolleyes: lol

+1....... but im workin on it

What? This? This is just a thread on a message board initiated by someone who readily admits that his own car is not yet complete. It hardly qualifies as "throwing down the gauntlet".

What bugs me is that people assume that if it ain't published on a message board or printed in a magazine, then it's not happening. Most of the guys I know who are tracking their cars will not wear out their keyboards to flaunt the event(s). In the past, when they do post results, the bench racers flood in and criticize the effort in true armchair quarterback fashion.

You would be astonished at the number of message board members who are getting seat time. I can rattle off at least a dozen names without giving it any thought. And after typing this I will curl up with the latest issue of Car Craft. It reminds me that the last three winners of Real Street Eliminator have all been well known pro-touring enthusiasts.

How come every time a post is started like this one , the person starting the post has no car.

Good post Steve, enough said.

What? he don't even have a car? You have to be kiddin me.....I thought for sure with the way he posted, he had something worth lining up against.....I just don't get people....... :lol:

Congratulations to Pete Mungo for winning Real Street Eliminator XV. Another pro-touring member Fscope came in fourth with his 68 Camaro convertible.

Pete Mungo's AMX performed as follows:
10.644/132.21 in the quarter and stopped from 60-0mph in 101.2 feet.
Frank Scopeliiti bested the following numbers.
12.56/111.74 ET/mph and 135.6 60-0 stopping distance.

The autocross was rained out, but the results would have been meaningless since every autocross course is different. So there are hard numbers. If your car can perform as well as Pete Mungo's AMX, you are in the top 5% of the pro-touring community. Plus, you can probably spank even the most exotic of supercars. Crikey!! The rest of us can hope for and expect performance that is analagous to Frank Scopelitti's Camaro and his Global West tubular A-arms. FScope's Camaro performs on par with an $80K Porsche Carrera S (results found at car and driver dot com). Congratulations to Frank and the rest of us on our Poor-sches

There. Problem solved.

That AMX is 110% badass. I love all the adaptation of factory stuff-- Vette FX3 electronic shocks, traction control & ABS, and the use of heat riser butterflies to run "choked off" 2" exhaust when he wants to be quiet. And it all works well together. Good man.

And hot damn... it almost made 60-0 in the double digits. :hail:

Any idea what the weight is on that sucker? I bet it's under 3000lbs.

Troy

The mailman hasn't delivered my CC yet, so I'll have to wait to read it. Is this the gold car that was featured a few years ago?

Yes, it's the Gold '69 AMX that was featured back in 1999. Aluminum 18 degree SBC, Richmond 6-speed, adapted Vette front brakes and Impala SS rears, Vette FX3 electronic shocks, ABS, and traction control, and he pieced together the suspension on his own. Very cool car.

No! you've missed the point. Going back a while everyone was banging on about how cool it'd be to have as many PT cars get together as possible for a track day. SW said he could arrange circuit time & the next thing you know, the thread dies the death. Then a guy comes on here, with a legitimate observation, & the fact that it's his first post gets cruciified for " calling you out " for a race. V8tv have upped the ante by saying they'll supply media coverage (which incidentally you were all trying to decide how to arrange this with the previous post). V8tv also said they could arrange some cars to compare with the PT cars. That was 4 days ago!! the thread just stopped on the 15th. It seems as if as soon as the bluff is called, everyone drops the idea like a hot stone.

The guy doesen't have to have a comleted car to ask why you don't put track time on them does he?? He is saying, what an awful lot of people are thinking ,.....that is, you guys spend a lot of money adding go faster parts, suspension & brakes to your cars & yet none of those parts have been quantified as to how good they really are. The cars are going the same route as Pro Street, made to look like they could haul ass, but really cant be driven hard for fear of breaking it or marking the paint.Take Johnsons 'Cuda as an example,....lovely looking car, well prepared, nice interior & paint, BUT, it couldn't be driven hard or regularly, as the front suspension & big dia wheels won't allow the car to turn properly. As was stated on this forum, they had trouble moving & turning it, it has no turning circle. In that instance they just become bling jewellery, something nice to look at & yet here everyone is creaming themselves over its engineering!!! it can't turn a circle !!!!. Now if you feel offended by what I've written, I'm sorry, but this is how the movement is viewed from outside your bubble.

Ok, you may not want to race your car, fair enough, so why do you need 800 horsepower?? why do you need bigger brakes?? why do you need better suspension?? you'll never get your car to its limits on the street anyway! If you did decide to race it, you'd find that the Baer brakes et al, you've fitted aren't up to scratch anyways, 'cos inside one lap you'll have fried the road compound pads (as has been mentioned before by those that have tried) racing is TOTALLY different to hard street driving.
Most PT cars are just show queens, sorry, but that's how it's viewed, just as you've scoffed at Pro Street for being trailer queens, the MAJORITY of PT cars are going the same way. The guy that posted this on here was an observer for quite some time, he DOES have a car that he's putting together,
the fact that it isn't on the road, doesn't mean he's not entitled to his views. The fact that a few of you got upset by his posting, to me, seems as if it's a case of "if the shoe fits......"

Incidentally, as Steve says, ....how many board readers here actually have raced their car hard around a circuit?? I don't mean ***** footing it around for a lap ot two, just to say you've been on track,I mean using their car hard??

Incidentally, the AMx's stopping distances aren't that great really considering its set up. My fully street legal, historic race prepped '72 T/Am, using race pads, standard dia front discs, race rear shoes & standard drums would stop from 60-0 in 99.3 feet. My friends similarly equipped '69 Mustang race car does it even better, in 98.75 feet. Oh & they are quicker than Evo8's, Imprezas, Ultimas & TVR's around Silverstone race circuit. :yes:

No. I'm being realistic. It is rude to come into someone else's house and suggest that they spend their money to throw a party. It just doesn't work that way. An event happens when ONE individual steps up to promote the event. That will require fronting the cash to rent a track, rent some equipment, provide concessions and organize the entire affair. Event promotion is complex and costly. When all is said and done, that promoter will assume risk based on turnout. Turnout is dependent on outside variable such as weather.
So the question is not "Why don't you guys organize an event?" The question is: "Who will accept the risk and responsibility to host the event?" Shall we insist that some of our well-to-do members step forward? No. They have to offer. We cannot demand it of them. That's just common courtesy.

Furthermore, it is presumptuous to claim that track time is not happening just because there is no "Official Lateral-g.net" track day. Bill Howell generously sponsored an event. Vince Ortega generously sponsored an event. And let's not forget the SCCA. I don't need an official event because I am happy to participate in my local SCCA sponsored grassroots programs. We can't stomp our feet and whine like children to make events happen. They're happening anyway. Just get involved. And if you don't like the available offerings, STEP UP! Make it happen!

So I will reiterate my point: One thread or message board is not the end all to performance verification.

I agree.

Come on man Step up , come on, come on, oh please would you for all us posers. We can't do it ourselves, please, oh please, come on, come on.

Rent the track, take care of insurance, get us a deal on rooms, get equipment that can document the findings YOU want from our cars, because YOUR car won't be participating, right.

You state "that was 4 days ago" - well that seems like plenty of time for YOU to get something in the works, ya think.

A little lesson: It's not what ya say its how you say it. If the original post would have been done with class and not bash, and your post would have had some class to it maybe it would be a civil discussion. But people are not going to get behind an event with rude, classless people behind it, period. We all build different cars for different reasons.

Steve and Stuart... You hit the nail on the head.
It's easy to spend other people's money or require them to "use" their car. It is quite a bit different if it is your own at risk.
-Bruce

Jeez, you have bad attitude dont ya??? Sarcasm, is the lowest form of wit!! Cant you take some home truths once in a while, does the sun only shine out of your butt?? You're forgetting, I don't live in your country, is your attitude typical of Americans?

Whats the matter, don't you like constructive criticism?? This is an open forum, where people can voice their thoughts & opinions. Whether or not you agree with them is irrelevant!! They were someones opinions, just as you have yours, but there's no need to rip into him or me is there. This is just like a back patters association, it's ok if you agree with everyone, but as soon as someone questions the motives behind what you're doing you go off on one.

Don't you people have track days?? you turn up with your car, sign the disclaimer & run it!! Why do you need concession stands & all of the other crap that goes with it. Deal with your own rooms,sort out your own insurance, whats the matter can't you deal with that or is that beyond you. You couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery! Oh & by the way, what says you have class & others don't, look outside the bubble & see that there's a real world out there, where there are more important issues as to whether to spend $1000.00 on a hinge.

The sun doesn't just shine on the "supposed land of the free" ............Get a life!!!!!!

it'll be interesting to see how long this is left up before being deleted because it isn't pro American,& how much of a slagging I get for posting it by you civilised Americans. time starts now....

EXACTLY, people are afraid to "use" their cars in case they get dirty, so why do you all need the bragging rights of big engines, wild suspension & brakes when all the car is gonna do is hold down grass at a show. Whoopey do!!

All show, no go!

actually we would all be better off if you did!

A little upset are we?

Everyone has different ideas what should be done with their cars. Some people race them, some people show them, some do both. Why are you so bent on proving that you're right and everyone else's ideas or intentions are wrong? Sounds like sour grapes to me - can't have it your way so it must suck, right? :rolleyes:

Nigel,
Was my post in any way directed as a personal affront to you or your country? If you don't like Stuart's tone, simply add him to your Ignore List. Rather than bounce off the rev limiter, please address my post.

Here: We will use you as an example. From your posts, I can only assume that you are an active vintage racer and industry professional. You are a participant. You are involved. Yet, I don't recall you posting any performance data or pictures of your endeavors. So am I to assume that the efforts don't exist? Just because no proof has been posted on a message board? No. So why would you or anyone else make the same assumption?

From your posts, I would guess that you race often. That tomorrow's race is no big deal. That there is no reason to make a big to-do about it. So every time I read one of these types of threads, I laugh at the thread starter's presumption. They're always looking for the same thing: A message board sponsored, highly publicized event. Somehow, anything less or different is unacceptible.

I know that the cars ARE being used and that a branded event is wholly unreasonable and unrealistic. I think you know it as well.

Evil, I hope the post is left up, it just shows who YOU really are.

I'm REAL glad to be an American.

Have a good one, taking your meds right?

...
 

High dollar event or not, (although it seem that anything would be high-dollar, as soon as the liability insurance and safety crews are figured in...) we're game to shoot cool cars throwin' down the numbers. Even if there is no "vs." element... I just think it would be cool to show how a properly tuned '60's musclecar stands up to a $50k+ high tech new performance car.

Hmm... after typing that last sentence, the thought crosses me mind... does it take a $50k+ musclecar to match a $50k+ late model performance car?

Actually I prefer back rubs, Stu, came you help a brother out over here! :lol:

Evilzee28, I passed on responding to your comments about my tirespinning picture earlier, but since you keep on, I must comment now. The picture was to show I am never afraid of dirt, rubber or rock chips on my car. Not to challenge anyone's burnout abilities. My car is obviously a convertible, wantta know why? I LIKE Convertibles. It doesn't have a rollbar, Why? I don't like them in convertibles. Why did I build it like I did? Cause that is what I wanted. No more, no less. However, if some type event is set up and is within 1000 miles of my home, I will be there, I will be participating and I will be pushing it as hard as I feel comfortable. I will not wreck the damn thing though just cause you or some one else thinks I should. You are more than welcomed to buy it though and do whatever you like with it. If we do have an event, bring that evil z/28 on out, I bet you right here, right now, I will spank your butt, then compete in the show and shine just for good measure. Don't worry about the sissy burnout, I got you covered where it counts. :thumbsup:

Well my car is show and go......and i have alot of friend's here that are in the same frame of mind.
I surely wish that some who make post's like this, actually had some basis on the post (having a ride for one).
I don't see why some thought's focus purely on racing. It take's alot of time and talent to build some of the car's that are shown on this site. If you know anything about drag racing, you know that part's are expensive and those part's break. My car is currently broken needing a new engine installed. I know the risk of racing my car and have to pay to play with these risk's.

But what does trying to justify a person's idea of a car by bashing or saying that people that build show car's, are car's? Yea, they have 1,000.00 hinge's and 50k motor's, plus ton's and ton's of work involved in getting em that way to show.

To me, car's are a hobby. There are different type's of car's that are in our hobby. I don't think that bashing on a guy for building a show car is right, we need to learn to appreciate the effort and time spent in keeping our hobby alive. I for one, wish i had the talent to build a car like alot of the one's shown on this site. But even for my lack of knowledge, i build all my car's to meet what i want, and i do with my car's what i want, when i want them to do it. That includes car show's and drag racing.

There are so many talented people on this site, people need to kick back and try to enjoy what each of us bring's to this hobby. period.

Wow, yes, I'm a lurker looking for an education and enjoying reading about the successes and failures of the people that work so hard on their projects. I rarely post because I do not have much to add, I'm just taking it all in. I hope to take the G-machine route on my next project.. but back to the reason for my post.

You have a few flaws in your logic that need to be pointed out. Your posts are not "constructive criticism". Constructive criticism is not inflammatory or insulting, but opinions or suggestions that is meant to be delivered in a positive way, not judgmentally. I deal with it all day in my job and it has improved my performance immensely. You rant and then whine when you do not receive friendly replies? Try a civilized approach yourself.
I've read many posts on this forum, and I do not see any requirements that a post must be "pro-American" to not be removed. Taking an anti-American stance is something completely different. I do not know where you are from, and do not really care to know, but it is obvious to me that you have other hidden agendas and anti-American feelings that have bled into this forum and your views of its members and their cars. It appears that you have bought into many of stereotypical views of Americans and assume that this is what we are all like. Take a look in the mirror and evaluate your actions, it might closely resemble that which you so despise.

In conclusion, you Sir, are an a$$hole.

I have sat and really thought this one through. Evilz28 you sound like a Dictator with an emphasis on Dick. Next time you guys(your countrymen) are gettin' your asses kicked or you need somethng to eat, you know our number.

I think the productivity of this thread has been reached.

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