I paid for face plating and carbon fiber blockers.


I know they also replace a first gear cluster set since its prone to failure...

I was going to just do the pro shifting but my trans guy said just do the face plated gear, its a little more money but they tend to last longer...He upgrades about two a year but highly recommends just doing it this way the first time..he also said its a little noisy much like an old Muncie during shifting. The trans is supposed to grab like a raped ape in the higher rpms but it will still be quiet while in gear.

I guess removing the stock synchros allows all of this to happen...

I did have the guys at AMP performance do this work for me..They had a gear set that they sent to Liberty so when it comes in they can drop it in my trans and send off my stock ones. This can help you guys that dont want to wait like me, if you guys chose this route.

They are a Tremec dealer that works hand in hand with Liberty..I really can not complain about the price...

I called Amp and they said you are pro shifting your trans so you better give them a call Chuck. :unibrow: They don't have any gear sets to swap out with me. Looks like a long wait with Liberty or just buying parts or a whole tranny.

Face plated, not meant for street.

^^^^^^^^^^ EPIC FAIL!! :rofl:

Not as epic as putting a stock turd TKO600 in a 32. :lol:

Ya got me there!
:cheers: :woot:

You know more about my trans then I do...will call tomorrow. I guess either way it will run mo beta..

Faceplating is for the track only.

id call and get in on that. i think thats an error. it should say surfance enhanced, not cf. i think the price on the second page is correct for the cf. if not, that is a really good deal since its only 200 more than stock and WAY more upgraded.

I've thought this as well and have never seen or heard of it being recommended for a street car.

I'll get clarification on this tmrw!

Standard TKO = $2200
new RS 600 = $2200 (but doesn't ship til Feb or later)
Liberty upgraded/synchro'd TKO = $2375

Hmmm.....

After some long discussions with Paul at Liberty, I sent my 600 to them. It was a brand new unit never run, so magnifluxing was not necessary. For you guys who have thrashed the box, you may want to consider the small cost of magging as insurance. Any way face plating was not an option for street use and just want the box to shift smoother and better at higher rpm since the ls7 can rev a bit. Heres what you can expect to spend if you send them your box, got mine back mid October.
http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u...Picture056.jpg

Okay so I just got off the phone with them. He was still calling it face plating, even though its technically pro shifting. He say's their site can be confusing..

In a nut shell though they take .20 thousands off the face of the gears to shift smoother. All of the synchros are removed except 1st gear and the rest are dog ringed.

They also heat treated the gears which takes two weeks alone, in addition to chyron'g them.

I think Libert's site reffering to "Face Plating" not recommended for the street is a clutchless setup.

So thanks guys for asking now I think I'm unserstanding the process more and more. I kind of need to see these things before giving first hand knowledge..

How is Liberty selling upgraded units for $2375? When a new TKO 600 is $2195? Are they doing the same $500 worth of upgrades they would to a trans you would send them direct for $175? Something doesnt add up......

reference my post above. they are doing everything because there is a lot of profit in these things, and they use that profit to help offset the cost of the upgrades if you buy from them. i talked to a dealer and i was told they used to get the 600 for about 1100. that was a few price increases back though.

the $68 price included the first 4 line items, although i was told that the 4th line would be an "ea" price for 2-3-4th making that line $30.

the fifth line cannot be done without sending your case to them.

id like to hear what lines 6-8 do.

still only $218 ($68 that i posted (1-4) plus lines 6-8) if you do it all yourself and you dont include the front bearing revision.

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u...Picture056.jpg

YInteresting........ I know nobody will sell one for less than retail unless you are a dealer or have an inside connection of sorts. Seems like this would be frowned upon by other Tremec dealers? Maybe not...

i dont see why it would. they arent selling for less than the min price, they are just giving you an incentive to buy from them. no different than guys throwing in free shipping.

No one is selling a "stock" TKO 600 for less than the 2195 that I can find.

If they want to "discount" their upgrades, as Tim is saying, seems like a great way to move some product and they still make money. Don't know why that would ruffle any feathers...


Anyway.... I talked to Paul @ Liberty twice today. Very nice guy.

I inquired specifically about the $2375 upgraded/synchronized TKO 600.

Paul says the shifting is good up to around 6800 rpm they have found.

He also concurred that face-plating is not for street cars.

The surface enhancement procedure involves a shot-peening process which makes it slide easier and it reduces/minimizes wear for increased longevity.

He also talked at length about the carbon fiber blocking rings but I can't really regurgitate much from all that ... I got overwhelmed and stopped taking some notes. :lol:

Bottom line is it seems to be a very nice upgrade over a stock TKO 600 for not much more money.

I am gonna think on it a bit more and inspect my Muncie this week when we pull it out and make a final decision. But if I order one before Xmas, this should arrive by 1st/2nd week of January.

I'm leaning towards ordering the parts and installing them meeeself.

what was the deal with the two prices. both list the same parts, one for ~150 more than the other. was it a typo as suspected?

guinea pig.... cough.... guinea pig. just do it!

Can you get that all done by Jan 15? :cool:

Not sure on that -- I just references the price and upgrades listed on the homepage and he said "oh ok." :_paranoid

I hear ya, sounds like a pretty damn good deal. Wish I would have known that they offered this before I bought my trans, lol. Or at worst I may send them my trans for some tweaks if it doesn't sell..... looking forward to more feedback on this

Ha Ha guys... I'll be lucky to have my car back on all fours by Jan 15. I need a mechanic on staff.:rofl:

me too. the price is too cheap not to do it from the start. i wish i would have known. i also thought about the rs600 like you as well since im at a point to make a change, but id like a few years of testing before i dropped it in.

when i made my decision the magnum didnt exist and the 56 didnt make sense with my gear and tire. i would have changed the gear and gone with a magnum if i was starting from scratch.

Well Todd looks like you and Pappy and Chuck will have to be the guinea pigs here for the rest of us... I'm out! Looks like we're gonna throw the Muncie back in mine for RTTC. We've got bigger things to address with my car it appears.

I guess that will give me time to assess this option as well as give more time for the RS600 to hit the streets this coming year.

^ Dave - I'd agree w waiting to see how the RS600 perfroms before plunking down that kinda coin. What issue came up with the car?

Ask Kelli if you can borrow hers! :unibrow:

Has anyone noticed an inprovement with a change in fluids such as ATF? Futhermore, have any of you tried or know of experience with the Kiesler Road and Track T56? Sorry if I misdirected the thread.

Tim

I've messed with a few, Redline fluid made it worse. The GM Synchro mesh is hard to beat. I've heard the DSE guys have run an oil cooler on there trans and it helped but my shifting issue is all the time. Well hopefully not for long

My fingers are itching to make that call to order a brand new unit....:unibrow: He said 4-6 weeks to upgrade mine plug shipping time. The way I see it, I'll miss RTTC if I go this route. He said it's really not a job I should do.

Todd - do it for yourself. Do it for the rest of us. Do it for all of mankind. :D

and do it all with in a week...:lol:

With regards to not doing it yourself, he is right. Not doubting Todds mechanical abilities at all. They just have all the proper tooling, Bearing presses, fixtures etc., and they know the design faults, plus there ability to masage slider hubs and syncro sliders/gear cones from a custom fit standpoint. I used to build manual gear boxes and sell them for extra cash amazing how many tools we machined just to press in slip yoke bearings and seals, yes you could get the BFH out but do you really want to do it that way.

Beat it up at RTTC then send it out.

Rich

I'm on the fence between the 56 mag and the Liberty 600. I really don't like the low first gear of the 600 either. I will have to chop up my tunnel, shorten the driveshaft, and replace the bellhousing to go magnum however. The 600 is more economical but I want to do this once.:rolleyes:

Todd - what are your thoughts on the RS600? I see it is now shipping in January per a Keisler email I received today.

What rear gear you running again... 3.73?

I really don't know much about it. I don't like to be the guinea pig for a manufacturer, I can guarantee you that.:unibrow:

thats what i find odd. when i talked with them he told me all i needed was a set of tools (nothing special required) and that it was as easy as putting a bottom end of a motor together. he said that the assembly diagrams are easy to get and that if i hit a snag i could call and they would walk me through it. nothing was said of pressing on or off any parts. rather it was a bolt in deal???? ive never opened one up though.

as far as the cones, i dont think they are doing anything but scuffing or adding the CF. i would hope that the tolerances are such that you could swap parts without too much regard for the "custom fit" you spoke of. again, im no expert.

Brad mentioned needing to shim some gears and shift forks I assume. I can see needing the proper tools and shims to get the job done right. I'm sure there are tricks to the trade that I certainly don't kinow. I have enough going on as it is, I'll let someone else that has the experience mess with it. If it was as simple as swapping parts I'd tackle it.

I did hear some noise about Tremec updating the 600 with more modern synchros,etc as we speak. I'm not going to say who but it was a reliable source.

paul was my contact there, and i never spoke with brad. i liked paul because he seemed really honest, took the time to explain everything and acutally tried to somewhat talk me out of spending the extra money on the CF cones. you dont find many people trying to downsell. i guess i need to give them another call and figure it out.

i see a few options for me; try to sell for as much as possible since its BRAND NEW and get one from liberty, send this one to liberty, get the parts from liberty and attempt to assemble myself or just drive it and see how good or bad it really is. the first two options are pretty dang close in price to each other, and thats if i get what i think i can for the tranny. as soon as i drive it one mile its going to lose a lot of value.

btw, the front page was a typo and has been changed back to 2499 instead of 2375. see what happens when i open my mouth on these forums. :_paranoid

I hear that brother... nor a builder/installer for that matter! :thumbsup:

My same assessment of Paul after speaking with him. I think I might have also helped get that homepage price "increased". :_paranoid