Take lots of pictures Charlie.......of all the nice rides.

Just for the sake of comparison, last time I checked, the track record for a CMC car (3rd/4th Gen Camaro or Fox Mustang) was 1:55 for the long course at Sears. That's with 230 rwhp and a stock suspension with a set of springs and Koni yellows. A-Sedan cars run high-1:40's to low 1:50's. The Vintage T/A cars ran high-1:50's several years back. Sears is a finesse track and it's all about the driver.

So is a PT car with 600hp, C5 geometry and Penske shocks technically capable of low 50's/high 40's? Sure. Will it actually run that? Depends on the driver, but I seriously doubt it.

The reality is that anything sub-2 minutes is flying at that track.

Back in 2006 I ran a 1:56 and have stock subframe, conventional 700 lb front springs, Global West rear leafs and control arms, Toyo RA-1's, 3400 lb car at 400/400 to the rear wheels.

I am now 200 lbs lighter with 125 more hosepower at crank(haven't chassis dyno'ed yet) with a few more adjusments(not changes) to the suspension.

I am scheduled for Infineon Oct. 9th and 10th. I will post times then.

I take it we are all talking about the track configuration using the carousel...correct? We all love horsepower...the more the better, but if your car does is not setup for optimum handling, all the horsepower won't help. I have seen many low horsepower/well handling, purpose built, track cars blow by high horsepower muscle cars.
The full DSE setup on a first gen Camaro makes it a very nice well handling street and occasional track car, but is well short of the setup that is ideal for the track. Just to be clear, I think highly of all the DSE products and have just about everything they sell on my 69 Camaro project. Charlie's Jackass Camaro, built buy Steilow with 700 plus HP is no match for my Mustang with 523 hp at the rear wheels....and Charlie is a very good wheel man. The difference is my Mustang is a purpose built track car and Jackass is about the best Pro-Touring Camaro on the planet. Conclusion, I don't see any Pro-Touring Camaro getting into the 1:40's at Sears Point....except Stielow's ride, but he is in another league of his own.

I agree, horsepower is nice, but IMO it boils down to weight and tires. Either way, I've been waiting for Jack Ass and Bad Penny to show up at one of these events and post times. I honestly dont think their trick suspension set ups are any better than my leaf spring set up.

It would be cool to have an event where all are running the same tire and find out, and I'm not talking about dodging cones.

I have looked at a few pics of your car and honestly think the car is not setup to run the times you expect. Sits to high and has too much body roll, but maybe you have made a lot of changes since these pics. My experience is you need to have a car that can hold 1.5 g's plus in order to negoitate turn that will result in low 1:50's times. In addition, a leaf spring setup compared to a coil over car with Watts linkage and torque arm will limit your braking and handling ability....and yes I agree the DSC quadra link setup might not be much better than a good leaf spring setup. Bottomline, it will come down to who can post the best lap times.

You guys are all nuts...It is mainly the driver. Jackass is a great Pro-Touring car. It is not a purpose built track car. The Thrasher had Landrum leaf springs and Stielow front spindles and could probably hang with about any fancy car here. It is still mainly the driver. I am a hobby driver. I have been thinking I am going fast only to see two Miata's in my rear view mirror. I would certainly expect you guys with track only cars that you have dialed in could run better times than my Pro-Touring car that I use for Power Tour, Cruises etc and occasionally take on the track. I will never be winning races in Jackass because I don't track it enough to ever get really dialed in. I have other track cars and the big problem I have found is I never get settled into one car. They all drive differently and you have to re learn each time. I'm not the fastest but I am having fun.

I can meet you on the way down. You can sneak me in by hiding me in the trunk. I'll be good. I swear!!!

Bottom line, 1st gen camaros make slow race cars. There, I said it.:unibrow:

LMAO, roll? I've seen 1.3 g's with the R888's. I have pictures posted on this site from Thunderhill showing how flat she is in the corners with no tire squeal at all. She handles like she's on rails. 1.5 g's with Hoosiers is a certainty. Every time the guys at Dream Speed Motors say they are going to make more improvements my response is I dont see how you can make it better.

What a shame, and you Todd of all people, way to represent.

pretty sure Todd was kidding............. ;)

I'm simply saying there are better ways to go fast for alot less money. If this hobby was all about speed, we'd all be driving shifter carts or an all wheel drive car with perfect balance. I will say they are much better suited for road racing than autocross.

Doug could do it :rofl:

I understand that there are ways to go fast for alot less, I also understand that guys build our cars so that they drive on the street the way that cars of today do. Then you got guys like me that try and bring it one step higher to prove we can keep up with todays F bodies on the road course.

We love our cars and should be backing up all the hard work we, the manufacturers, and shops like Dream Speed, Jakes, Prodigy, etc, put into making our cars kick ass.

Keep in mind, Jack posted a 2:05 best in April at Thunderhill on Hoosiers with aprrox. 50 more rear wheel H.P.

I ran only one good session (due to cracking a spark plug)my second time to the track in 4 years and ran a 2:08 the first run of the morning on a cold track and on Toyo's.

I guess a good example of the difference between a track car and a nice Pro-Touring car that sees some track use is one of us gets invited to the Playboy Mansion.:D I might not be the fastest but somehow the compromise seems worth it..:unibrow:

That precisely why I am building a pro-touring car so I have fun like Charlie and maybe someday get invited to the Playboy Mansion

When I retire and get old like you guys, all I need is a little interior work on my car and I will have a pretty car just like yours, LOL:rofl:

Maybe when I retire I will get fast like you young guys...Oh wait, Jack isn't retired either.. We're just old...

Getting old sure beats the alternative.

Just kidding guy's, whats life without a little smack talk, cheers:cheers:

I believe this is turn 10 at Thunderhill, if your going to get any roll out of any turn, this would be one of them. See much roll here?


http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/a...3911-1-1-1.jpg

yeah, maybe a bit up front....:faint:

or Honda S2000's. :fire: LOL

Zbugger here volunteers when you get back to wipe all the cheek marks off of your fenders..with his face.

Then why the hell are we going to a softer spring :mad:

Looks great in turn 10; don't see much body roll; a lot better than previous pics....you are making me a believer that your Camaro can run the number....but I pretty sure I got you covered.....proof will be in the lap times....see ya

Yeah, see ya(in my rear view mirror):thumbsup: Just kiddin, should be a close one,

Cheers :cheers:

so we can actually use the rest of your suspension for tuning....carpochondriac

can't wait to see that Race horse in person Jack! :bow:

Here is my in car camera of the vintage race at the Shelby meet. Lost 3 cam lobes but did finish..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOheumjjd6o

Very cool Charlie...and great driving. Looks like you were having a fun time picking off cars. See you and your Dale Earnhart car at Laguna.

Nice vid Charlie, lookin forward to meeting you sometime. BTW, sweet Mustang.

I think AIX track record is 1:45xxx? Badass Griggs Mustang with a detuned nascar engine...so I've heard. Over on Frrax, Randy MacIntosh has a ITE 4th Gen Camaro. He's changed it over the years and now has a LS based engine making 6 to 700 HP I think. Not sure on weight but being a gutted 4th Gen. race car around 3000 pounds maybe? He said he was running high 1:40s (best times ever) and was being easy on the brakes and easy off the corners. Said he had more left in it and was being careful with the new set-up. I've seen both these cars run and can't imagine PT cars running low 1:50s. Might have to come out and watch.

1:45 at Infineon
 

Chris, the Griggs car your referred too in your post that set a lap record at 1:45 is featured in the attached video. The car is an 04 Mustang driven by Darell Anderson. The Blue, #45 08 Mustang, also a Griggs car runs 1:49. The red mustang is running an LS motor....enjoy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsbQk2wnQ2M

In NASA Time Trials at Infineon James Safrones holds the record in a '93 Porche GT3 at 1:42. Andy Sutak is second at 1:46 in a 2004 Mustang Cobra.

When I ran Time Trials with John Anderson (he had a 65 Mustang) in 2006 we ran 1:56's and I beleive he nailed a 1:55 once or twice. He was running Hoosiers and I was on Toyo's.

If you take into account that I am 200 lbs lighter now and have 125 more h.p. I dont think 1:52's are out of the question.

Yes Jack, thats the car. Very cool! Never have seen that blue 45 Mustang before. Maybe I have and didn't know it. Doesn't really attract attention, but very fast indeed. I think I've seen pictures of the red mustang on Corner-Carvers? Is the owner a former employee at Griggs? Track Junky, in that link from Jack there is a companion video of the blue 45 Mustang (?) thats chasing a red Porsche. In the begining theres a shot of a red 69 Camaro is that you? Is your car a DD or gutted track car? Whats been done to it? Excellent job to all you guys pulling off those quick times. A couple of years ago I had my '01 Z28 out at Sears doing HPDE 1. I had a blast. At the time the only thing I had done to my car was wheels/tires and sway bars. I've got more stuff done now but its just not in the budget to go out and waste tires and gas 4 or 5 times a year. What sucks is I only live about a half hour from Sears so its always tempting...but then I suddenly remember I'm married and that the wifey just doesn't understand.:rolleyes:

Yes, the guy in the blue '08 Mustang is an ex Griggs employee; below is a link to his business, Cortex Racing, plus a number of additional videos.

http://www.cortexracing.com/

Chris, that video was a good one, probably one of the best I've seen. The red '69 camaro isn't me but I sure would like to know who it is. As far as my car goes, if I had a dash pad and carpet it would look just like any other PT car asside from the 6 point cage. Suspension is all Global West, front clip and engine block are aluminum and I have the car down to 3050 lbs. It puts out 615 hp and 560 torque to the crank. All this work was done about 6 months ago and I have been testing and tuning since. Since June I've been to Thunderhill twice and Buttonwillow twice improving my times with tuning and changes each time. My next track day wil be Sept 25th at Buttonwillow and there are a bunch of the Pro touring guys that are going. We will be running the 13 cw configuration and my goal is 2:10 lap times. From there I go to Infineon to tune. I beleive the 9th and 10th of October and then November 25th and 26th. My wife has been understanding so far but she is telling me I am spending to much money so Infineon may be a tough one unless I land another build, addition or remodel.