I don't think your front suspension is stock? (You indicated that you are also in disagreement with Jon over fitment for the fronts)

I don't think your car's ride height is stock?

Sorta depends on your suspension and how much roll (how compliant) your car is.

If you look at my front tires you think "gee, there's plenty of room" and then I let a pro push my car and my front tires melted to the inner fenders. lol.. The back has less movement, but (again, depending on suspension) moves more in turns than you think.

Rubbing sucks, and is expensive since it ruins tires.. I can see where a wheel company would err on the side of clearance than "pushing the edge" since if a tire was ruined by rubbing they would most likely be presented with a bill.

For the record, in my other post, I was was pretty much siding with the Driverzinc guys. I think you might have had a bit of a rude awakening to the world of hot rodding, so I feel kind of bad for your. However, the truth is, generally, nothing ever fits perfectly. We all reach this realization at some point, and it sucks. You can only expect Jon to get so close, and he did. He sent you and order of wheels that fit. Even though I paid to have my front wheels re-hooped, I still rely on Jon's expertise. Every time I have called over there, they have picked up the phone, and taken the time to help sort out my issues. I think you might be surprised at how willing the crew at Driverz would to work with you, provided you weren't trying to get them to re-hoop your wheels for free. I think I can understand why you might have thought it reasonable to ask for Driverz to re-hoop the wheels, being unfamiliar with these types of cars and all, but as others have said, it is an unreasonable request, all things considered.

This is a good lesson for all of the "new" folks on Lat-G though. What happened here could have happened with any vendor on this site. Prodigy sells a ton of Forgelines as well, and I guarantee their customer service wouldn't be any better than Driverz, or have handled the issue differently. Bottom line is, we all need to double check everything ourselves because no two cars are alike.

Matt

Don't let this stuff get you down Jon...can't please everyone...although Lord knows you try!:yes:

Has this car even been on the road yet? :rolleyes:

No matter what you do Lee, here's some advice, at this point you can do what you want with it, take it or choose to ignore it, but don't do a thing, until you test drive that car, regardless if you plan on narrowing the rear end, or trying to run a wider tire, until you get that thing on the road, turn the front wheels lock to lock while driving, and start taking corners in it. I gurantee a test drive will reveal some truths about what you have there and what "fits".

My bad....I thought you were talking about the rears.

Thanks Steve, I will definitely take that into account.

You're suspension and ride height are stock ????

So the SPC upper and lower arms and coilovers are stock pieces? Those spindles and brakes are stock?...........ok.....

Jon's advice about not changing ANYTHING about the wheels etc until the car is done and on the road is very sound advice. Having the car fully loaded and ALL the weight on the suspension at ride height and then driving on the road is gonna tell you a TON of info about whether the fitment is right or wrong...

I've seen tons of guys have a bare shell and suspension done and then start cutting springs and adding blocks etc to get it to sit right.... then they add all the other stuff and low and behold it now sits too low or stuff rubs.

I'd finnish the rest of the car....get it driving and then revisit you opinions and plans to change the wheels

Never bought anything form Jon but I've talked to him a few times and seen his involvement with ALOT of the guys on this board and othesr.....and this is the first negative thing I've heard......as far as I'm concerned, that speaks volumes ot me.

I guess a little late advice is better than nothing. I think the first step is to actually measure this time (like I originally had suggested to you) and see what that reveals as far as fitment. I think two of my choices are going with an 11" wheel or possibly a 4" backspace among others---but that remains to be seen. I just got my T-56 Magnum in today and as soon as that's in, I'll be putting some miles on her and we'll go from there. The purpose of this thread was never to coerce you to pay for my wheels (heck I knew that wasn't gonna happen when I saw Justin on Chevelles.com asking for info on rear ends). The purpose was to show other folks (especially those new to the hobby) that not all is as advertised and to be aware of these issues with you AND other vendors on this site. I knew it would not be popular, but felt if someone had brought up these issues, I would have made better decisions. I'm sure this will save everyone a lot of frustration (and money) in the long run.:cheers:

Narrow the rear. (like you told Jon you were going to do in the first place)
Add the rear disc conversion. (again, like you said you were going to do)
Install the wider tire that was suggested in the first place.
Set the ride ht and drive it.
Then look up inside your rear wheel wells ABOVE the factory "flare".
I am willing to bet that the wheels provided, based on Jons experience with these cars, is going to fit just the way it should.

You have not "finished" building your car to the specs you gave Jon that he based his SUGGESTION on.
As far as I can see, Jon did his job. And did it well (as usual).
Now it's your turn. Finish the car and drive it. I think in the end you will be more than happy with the results.
I have dealt with Jon & Justin MANY MANY times. The help they have provided in planning my car, wheel, tire, rear end, suspension and brakes.....that help is priceless to me.
The efforts put forth by Driverzinc and the outstanding level of customer service is second to none in my book.

I do wish you the best in your build. I think that you are overlooking several factors. The wheel well flares and the lack of room above them. The rear not being narrowed yet. The disc brake conversion. And the wider tire suggested.
Once those are dealt with everything you are pointing out will be resolved.

For what it's worth I think your car looks great the way it is.

There's a lot of dynamics going on, clearance is your friend. Not only is rubbing a concern when the wheels are straight and at full lock, but also when you have a little wheel in and a have lot of travel - like when entering a driveway. Things can get very tight.

If anyone wants to push the ragged edge of tire/wheel fitment, they better be fully prepared to have a rubs.

We will have to agree to disagree on Driverz Inc's customer service, but thank you for the compliments on the car and your suggestions. Stay tuned for future updates!

Agreed. Scott, I actually wanted to thank you for giving me the opportunity to air my grievances. I think it shows that you care not only about site sponsors but also the members of this site. I really appreciate it.

I wonder if the diff in this thing is out of a '68 and later. They bolt right in and do have a wider track than earlier cars. It would explain a couple things. It looks like it all fits great IMO, but I would still narrow it that inch like you said you were when you ordered the wheels.

FWIW, I have a '67 A body with a '67 12 bolt under it. I have a pending wheel order with Jon and let him pick all of my backspacing. The guy spent a couple hours with me at a GG show asking all of the right questions, and really made me feel comfortable spending my 5K with him. He gave me the option to go to a 10 inch wheel and a larger tire, but explained it would be tight. After spending countless hours getting 325s barely under my Nova, knowing I'd be rolling around with 4 people in the car, and wanting to hammer on the car- I elected to go with the 9.5s and the 275 tire. This is hot rodding- nobody at GM in 1967 would have ever imagined what we would be doing with these things. Finish it, roll it, forget about it.

Thanks. Already forgotten!:cheers:

I would really like to see those updates. Be sure and get some pics after its on the road.

Jocko, for what it's worth, you have a great looking car. I've always pulled for the bigger A-body Oldsmobiles from the era you have built, but yours sits and looks killer. Someone here told you to finish it and that is sound advice. Get all the weight on it, the six speed in it, narrow the rear, discs, then go sling it into some curves. Then you will see Jon's wisdom in the selection. If it's a cruiser car, go with the 315's or fatter. Shame to see all that kick butt suspension and slick brakes and not throw it around some cones.

A few years back Jon spend a few hours on the phone with me about wheels and backspacing, all the while calls were coming in and he didn't hurry or rush me in any way. Thousands of great and satisfied people can't be undone by one whom it seems is "seeing the light" as far as wheel fitment goes. Jon did right by you, trust me, scrubbing wheels and tires suck, and one inch is a gift the first time you really get your beast in a twist suspension wise.

Good luck on completing your build.

Will do.

Thanks Jim.

This has been educational on many fronts.

I have two thoughts that come to mind.

Wheels and stance are very critical and expensive. Double/Triple checking measurements are needed. If the customer has no clue then talk to a professional about measuring your car. If its not a one owner, you really have no clue if stock measurements from the book will work on your car. Minor wrecks, frame repairs, etc are common on 40 yr old cars.

A business should not advertise 100% satisfaction guarantee. That's impossible to live up to, even on our best day.

Guys, thanks for being civil.

After typing and deleting several rants, I'll just say this: Based on this thread, any orders I have for wheels will go to Driverz, Inc.

i agree with you that sucked in wheels suck. i tried my hardest and spent HOURS measuring my backs to put them as far out as possible and building new tubs to get rid of that hump jon talks about. at the end of the day they are still further in than i would like, but its a balancing act between wheel placement and the amount its lowered. the wheels can only go so far into the wheelwell before the quarter naturally starts to lean over towards the roof. a compromise is the key.

i think youll find a few things out when its finished; narrow the rear 1" per side and add disc brakes and you will probably clear the hump by 3/8-1/2" as planned. if you still have extra space run a 305 tire and youll add another 1/2" to each side. and lastly, the fronts need room to turn with a dropped height. you can modify the inner fenders, but unless you work the actual fender your left with either a rub or a sucked in look.

I think these threads can be beneficial. Would it be possible to create a "Vendor Feedback" topic where they can be housed?

I've been having Jon as my wheel and tire guy for years and has always been great. Takes the time and knows his stuff.

I have only read and heard of everyone I know in the real world and the virtual world being happy customers of Driverz.

Fact: you just can't please everyone.... :thumbsup:

Is that like tight underwear on a hot day...rub,rub,rub

Only if we can start a "Customer Feedback" topic. I think it would be beneficial to other supporting vendors to share feed back on their experiences with customers as well. For example, to prevent fraud.

Back in 2008, I had a customer, Kevin Dinger, from Naples, FL. His Dad called and order a very custom set of Forgelines for his son's birthday to go on their Viper. He also ordered a killer set of PS2's to go with it. When the wheels were done he called and asked me to ship them directly to his son's address, just so they would make his birthday party in time.

2 weeks later, he called AMEX and claimed he never got the wheels.

I fought it and won, because they had actually emailed photos of the wheels on the car direct to Forgeline.

2 weeks after I won the first claim, they did it again. This time claiming I did not ship the wheels to the billing address on the AMEX...

AND THEY WON.

After 3 years, and winning a judgement in Riverside County court, I'm still out 7 grand.

I think it would be beneficial to have a customer feedback forum for guys like Kevin Dinger. Lets even the "complaint" playing field, so we can all limit the amount of douche bags out there that continue to screw over good people, and so that both vendors AND customers can be forewarned.

Hot Rodders are generally, cool and well tempered, tolerant people. Lets keep our hobby an enjoyable one, where we all try and help each other out, and keep the guys that are out to screw anybody out of it.

Exactly, I have a set of Forgelines and I sure as hell made sure they were tits on before ordering them. If you can't measure your own backspacing requirements, you shouldn't be messing with these old cars....

AHHHH ! The joy's of being self employed... I have been doing it for well over 20 years and it has it's days,Oh boy are there some days....I have seen every style of customer known to man...Thank god we have enough great loyal customers to offset the ones that make you wonder if it is all worth it..For all you buisness owners out there ( on this site ) I would place a large bet that we all wake up with the same goal in mind, WORK HARD, TRY TO DO OUR BEST and ALLWAYS know that word of mouth will feed you when the yellow pages did'nt...For those that have never done it or witnessed it .....It is brutal and it is on your mind 24 hours a day (even the vacation days )their is no 5:00 in our world.....At least in the old days if a customer was really pissed they would have to rent an add in the paper or carry a sign in front of your place ! Now ya just throw your rant out on the net and the chips fall where they fall......Well that's just GREAT.. So while jon should be shipping wheels and trying to do his very best at answering peoples questions he has to take productive time and turn it into non-productive time to defend his position,his passion and his livelhood to this stuff...I have a car we are building and darn near every part weve ordered will not work as delivered,The customer has seen this at all phases and he now realizes what a custom deal his car really is...IF IT WAS EASY, WOULD'NT EVERYONE BE DOING IT ?? Trav

Mike, I have to tell you, this absolutely made our day. :cheers:

For what you've said in here, I just made a thread called Costumer experience, go check it out.

Pretty damn well put...as were many comments here.

I have ordered at least 4-5 sets of wheels through Jon,honestly I've lost count.
Now I'd be lying if I said there weren't problems along the way...but none of those were Jon's doing to the best of my memory,but eventually it always comes back to him and I know it can be frustrating,I remember the Forgeline deal...if it were me I may have had to send some visitors,lol.:willy:

Point being: Never once did I think it was right to air it on a public forum before allowing Jon time to work his magic,because he always made it right in the end.:yes:

Just saying...

I've always had great experiences with Jon and the guys at Driverz. All my tires and wheels for all my vehicles come from them and I have nothing but good things to say. I purchased the wheels for the Camaro from Jon, they should have fit perfectly given that fact that it's a 69 Camaro, however my car had new quarters hung and the car is a bit crooked. To get it to sit the way it does, Jon rehooped the wheels for me---did it cost me money, ya. Was it worth it to get the car to sit the way I wanted it, ya. Would I do it again? Of course! The fact that Jon was willing to offer additional advice, take the time to listen to my idea of having the car sit that low and how to accomplish that with wheel offset, etc was what I appreciated and continue to appreciate the most. Matt eluded to this in an earlier post, one size doesn't fit all in this deal, that's for sure. No disrespect to anyone who has posted, but i've learned my lesson on this over and over again and even though it's painful, it's a tough reality i've had to come to terms with. My wallet has screamed often and loudly--but I wanted the car to have a certain look and stance---it didn't happen the first time I tried, even with the proven fitments. The guys at Driverz didn't give up and I ultimately got what I wanted, killer stance, minimal rubbing and, in the end, performance that exceeds my expectations. I will say that, to me, this seems like business as usual---it sucks when it happens to you--but most of the people I know have to deal with fitment issues with these cars at some point when pushing the stance or going after a certain look. Most all of us have been where the OP has been----and it sucks when at first it doesn't work out the way you had hoped it would. It is what it is at this point---rehoop the wheels or widen them at this point, pay what you need too and get the stance and setup you want--you can now assure you will get exactly what you need given you have them on the car and can measure appropriately. The car looks great --I really like that body style---probably because it's something other than a Camaro---:lol:. Keep moving forward with it.

Doug

Thanks Doug, I've already moved forward. I've been talking to another wheel vendor that fits my expectation of customer service much better and I'm exploring all my options.

I think this is a one of those backhanded compliments?

Yeah, but without the compliment. :lol:

unless they don't do what you think is right....:rofl:

Really? We had to do this in 2 forums? Did this have to happen here because nobody can chime in on PT.com?

I remember my first set of wheels.....


I know I'm a low man on this tottum poll but isn't it time to shut this down?:drama: :drama: :drama:

:beathorse

I agree.