Brian, cool car. Love the stance and tire size combo.

Brian, I personally think your car is a great example of walking the fine line from street car to race car (that is a good thing and meant as a compliment).

If I was to build my car from scratch, I would incorporate most of what you did in that project. Others may not agree. Just because Stielow's car weighs 3700 lbs and has full interior and stereo doesn't mean everyone's car has to.

And the safety aspect is huge as well. You are right... unfortunately it does appear to be a matter of when and not if.

I didn't even know you didn't have windows (since I was one who made that comment earlier). And the fact that you intended to and just ran out of time is no biggie.

Congrats on your 3rd place finish and great showing.. And you did it in a muscle car. :thumbsup:

Oh, and don't ya love the people who say ya can't drive a dog box on the street? Who says so? :D

Thanks Dave! I built the car the be the best looking Camaro I could make and drive the crap out of it :D If I was going to spend that much time and money on the car, I wanted to be able to drive it on the street and have a blast with it. To me, that is what my car is all about.

The clunking (Jerico) and locker banging..... UNTIL.... you get to speed.... would drive me crazy on the street! I hated to drive my car to the Sunoco tank in the pits with all the clunking and chunking going on....First time I did I thought I broke something!

The guys working with me at the stop box were just sure those cars had broken when they tried to make the (TOO TIGHT) turn to the return road... I winched every time myself and I knew what the reason was.

But you know what? I'm dying to put some street tires on the thing and sneak out to the triple X (It's a burger joint you gutter guys!) some Saturday afternoon...

BRIAN --- It was so much fun to get to spend some time with you and your Dad! I hope we get the chance to do it again! Thanks for posting your side of the story...:cheers:

For the record, I love your car Brian. And in my opinion it totally fits the spirit of this event.

From a completely outside perspective( I live on the other side of the world so you can't get much more outside :) ) this argument gets bought up in so many types of motorsport (what is street/race ) it cannot be solved. As soon as you introduce more rules someone will find an edge in some way and guess what, some people will want more rules again. It's a vicious circle. If you are having fun but someone beats you with better gear, you know it and so do they. Race as hard as you can and have fun, nothing else matters when you do this.
Congrats to all you guys doing these races, I'm as jealous as hell, as here we don't have anything like it.

Thanks. :thumbsup:

Greg,

It was my Dad and my pleasure taking to you over some beers. Thank you for all you do on this site and at the events. We could not have these events without you and other volunteers.

Brian

Which part of TIE is getting lost in the translation? The stereotypical pro-touring car tied the bad motherfrucker modern Z06 and beat out the cars without side windows.

I'd say that tie represents spectacular news for pro-touring and the rules are 100% spot on. Last I checked, Optima makes batteries for all kinds of cars. And if DSE decides to make parts for C6 vettes some day, their 1st and 2nd gen Camaro parts will still work well and sell well.

It's a good day for hot rodding. Bad day for belly-aching.

I very much enjoyed my first Optima Ultimate Street Car Invitational.
/Steevo

Hey Brian...Once again....Can I have it ? Great car.

Thanks and still no :D

The car is more fun than I imagined it would be!

I am glad they didnt have these rules in place this year.As Albert was pulling out of my Drive way Fri night before sema I was trying get him to stay 3 hours longer so I could plug in the switches for the heat defroster,and put on the wiper blades.But he wouldnt slow down said he had to go.Just ran out of time.The car will get everything finished when he heads this way on his way home.

Steve,

it only tied because of the fourth part of the judging, styling. Popp must have scored very low there to end up in a tie. He won first in autocross and road course, and placed well in the speed stop. If it wasn't for the show car part, and the event was just rated on the three performance sections he would have won by a mile. And in my opinion he should have won, he earned it.

But it's not, and the styling section is one-fourth of the event, and an equalizer to the later model cars. They won't score as well there in almost all cases, so that kind of equalizes things, and that's why it's there.

My point is that on a purely performance level the older stuff has really showed what it can do, but it will not be able to beat the late model Vettes, etc. on a head-to-head basis with equivalent drivers.

I am not complaining at all, and am very proud of the older cars that ran with (and beat) the late model stuff in some areas.

Hey! Jack just called and he wants his car back and says he has a title.....

LOL


I agree with you Charley! I want it and I don't even like Orange... well... or yellow either... but obviously I don't let that get in the way!

Great car - great guys...

Congrats to all the competitors it would be nice to see a run down of the events and competitors at some point.

I'd have to say one rule they might want to think about is banning tire warmers! :lol:

Understood. And if it were not for the powerful style of our older cars, many would just run out and buy new 'vettes, so style matters. It's exciting to see pro-touring cars placed in context relative to other enthusiast cars--new and old.

As for street vs race, Detroit Speed participated in Grassroots Motorsports Ultimate Track Car Challenge where many street cars participate. With Danny Popp driving, Stacy's 69 Camaro finished THIRTY-FIRST overall. Danny finished 3rd in his own race prepped vette. But that same 69 was amongst the fastest street cars on hand--top two or three fastest true street cars, if I recall. That's some interesting comparison data--especially since Danny was driving the 69.

A lot of us expected to see Z06, Z06, GT-R, race car with plates, etc at OUSCI 2011. Instead, 100% streetworthy pro-touring cars rocked it. Long term, good things will happen if pro-touring cars are displayed in context.

I, for one, would LOVE to see how Charley's AWD Launch Control Porsche stacks up against Quadra Deuce. See? Bring it.

Looking at the pedigree of some of the drivers it looks a little like it’s become a driver’s competition. The cars are one aspect but, looking at how well all the cars were built maybe having an independent pro driver test the top 5 in the track events would showcase what the cars can really do and how they stack up against each other.

Thanks to everyone for the feedback, keep it coming. We're paying close attention....

Jimi,

This is my favorite race event. You guys have done an incredible job with it and I for one greatly appreciate the effort you and Optima, as well as all the others have put into making it as cool as it is.

I hope we don't come across as complaining, just sharing opinions and ideas. I want this event to prosper, that's a fact. :thumbsup:

X2 :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

There are so many variables between the newer/older cars, pro-touring/race prepped pro-touring, that trying to seperate the competition into classes would not be easy.

I do like the fact that the late model cars are running with the pro-touring cars because it reminds us of how the DSE's, Ride-Tech's, Hotchkis's, etc's. engineering is helping our early model machines evolve into some serious contenders amongst the later model cars.

If it was me I would break the classes down to weight/power ratios, have 3 classes, and call it good at that. For example....say one guy is running a 3000 lb car with 480 hp to the rear wheels. That is about 6.25 lbs per each 1 hp. A 3700 lb car running 480 hp to the rear wheels would be 7.7 lbs per each 1 hp. Maybe having a 6:1-6:9 to one class, a 7:0-7.9:0 to one and a 8:0 and up class might help.

Tire width would be one that we should just have to deal with because adding that variable to weight/hp ratio would be very difficult to incorporate and probably create more classes and limit the cars in each class.

Just food for thought.

Jimi, this is the best event I have ever been to. You and the entire team of organizers and promoters deserve MAJOR kudos for putting on something so spectacular.

I also would like to thank Johnson Controls' Optima Batteries for envisioning this event, and seeing through with it. Without the support of Johnson Controls none of us would even be talking about this, and we would be talking about how cool all the cars looked.... at the show..... standing still...

Thanks for all that you do Jimi. You guys have created the ultimate super bowl in just 3 short years. :thumbsup:

I'm curious to know if the organizers and car "pickers" prefer muscle cars at the core, and then try to fill in the event with a sampling of various imports, Euros, late models, etc. It appears that way in 09 & 10... but 11 looked to be a very different crowd. Nothing wrong with that... call it evolution.... in addition to all of us voicing our opinions, I'd love to hear what the originators have thought and continue to think..... in due time I would suppose. :lateral:

Clearly the points system works as-is. The styling portion is a good handicap for the newer cars and evens the playing field to some degree. With this being said, it's hard to imagine anybody will make a better run at Danny Popp than Mark Stielow.

Brian, I can tell my posts hit you in the gut. In no way was that my intention and I also didn't know your car was window less. You know I'm much more of a racer than a tourer. I 100% agree on the safety factor as well. That thought has crossed my mind many times. Bottom line, your car is bad ass. Congrats on your performance!

I want to eloborate a little more on what I meant with my comments. When I think of the ultimate pro touring car, I think of a car that is as corvette esque as possible. Smooth, compliant, comfortable, reliable, FAST, etc.... Loaded with what we expect in our daily drivers. As much as I like to race, gear whine, vibrations, clunking, chattering, squeaking, etc... gets on my nerves in a street car. I'm not capable of building a car on Stielows level. I'm not afraid to say that in front of the world. Evidentally nobody else is either.... To compete, I need to build a lighter, higher hp/weight ratio, more agressive combo. (Clearly a ton of driving lessons and track time as well) After building one, now I know why he's built 10. You really learn alot building, tweaking, driving, and racing these cars. I'd say the biggest variable is, you figure out what YOU really want. At the end of the day, you are engineering your own car and figuring out what you really want is a huge part of the sorting process. If I ever build another, it will likely be more down Brian's alley but it won't see many street miles.

"The organizers" consists of a diverse group of industry professionals and we do our best to create a field of vehicles that showcases the best of the high performance street car automobile. We look for pro-touring, import, euro, domestic, trucks, old, new, wild and mild. The real key is "street" car. We are paying very close attention to the rules and will do our very best to keep this competition to street cars and not race cars with license plates. We feel this years field was one of the most diverse and talented groups ever assembled.

Fair or not it will push Stielow to higher level. I bet he was penciling out a AWD mod for this winter :evil:

Is the 1.42 time correct? If so and Stielow was two seconds off that means he picked up ~4 seconds from last year? :hail: I wonder what a big wing like the winner had would do?

I think Stielow was 3 seconds faster this year than last.

Hats off to Stielow , only 2 sec. back from that Corvette /Popp
Any info on that Yellow C4 corvette ? How did he do ?

I think Kyle was 3 seconds faster than last year also. That is alot of time.

Maybe Mark can elaborate on how you make up 3 seconds, that has to be close to driving to the limits.

I like how you grouped the cars together. The faster cars ran together on the roadcourse, great job.

I changed the following:

• Fixed the ABS to have no faults with my new axle
• Changed the blower and added appox 50 HP
• Filled the fuel tank so I would not fuel starve out of Pahrump turn 2
• Fixed the clutch to allow faster shifts
• Fixed the transmission to allow better 2 - 3 shifts (Faster)
• Retuned the shocks
• Swapped brakes to Stop-Tech to re-balance the brakes
• Ran a lot of practice laps

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/q...PahrumpLap.jpg

For a 3600 lbs Hot Rod Power Tour car that idles at 700 RPM it goes OK. :thumbsup:

With some more laps on that track in my car I'm sure I could go 1:43 but getting down to a 1:42 in Red Devil I don't think is possible. It is just physics. Also I’m sure Danny with a little practice could go down to a sub 1:40 lap. This was his first time on Spring Mountain.

There were a lot of great cars and drivers at this years’ event! Danny did a great job and had a great car he deserved to win. It was so close this year that one change in position would have giving me or Danny the clear win. Danny clearly beat me in the AutoX and the road course. I beat him in Style and Speed Stop.

Another way to make people "happy" is for someone in the "Pro-Touring" industy to sponsor a overall winner with a "Pro-Touring" car. So follow the One Lap of America format a little and break out the final awards to single out groups of cars.

Winner for Pro-Touring (Pre-1991)
Winner Truck / SUV
Winner 5th Gen Camaro
Winner Uber Perfrmance (Z06s, GTRs, GT2, etc.....)
Winner Tunner
Etc.....

Then "we" in the Pro-Touring community could have our champion. Instead of DSE sponsoring a road rally that everyone dislikes (or maybe just me) have them sponsor the Pro-Touring award. Have Lingenfelter sponsor the 5th Gen award…. Just an idea.

I love this event and don't want a lot of rules layered on just to make a small group happy. I think FM3 and Optima has done a great job putting on an event that is gaining in status and popularity. Next year will be even wilder, I can’t wait!

Stielow

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
See thats all you have to do.....:D

I'd actually like to see you bring a 5th Gen ZL1 next year. Would the times be marginally better, or a lot better?

Lets see a ZL-1 is 400 lbs heavier, 200 less HP and is bigger. I'm gunna say it would be 3 seconds a lap slower.

Stielow

I want to see him in a 67 Camaro :thumbsup:

I was there to see this, and it was amazing. Both drivers were just awesome and I loved the fact that the other team let the white z06 borrow the master cylinder!

I'd like to see him n anything BUT a Camaro. :D

On the subject of fairness, I'd like to see "Street Car" defined. Maybe let the wives come up with a list of items that define a car as street worthy and use that list as part of the style portion of the contest. Give the vehicles a 1 sec penalty for every item they do not have from the list and the rest would be fit and finish. Im sure all of the cars but a the CTS-V, Mercedes, and a couple others would have given up some valuable time there.

On another note, who do we have to talk to in order to get more than 45 minutes worth of TV coverage out of this? I'd love to see a feature on every car there in addition to a more detailed, play by play of the competition.

Anybody have any info on the C6 Danny was driving ? I know the devil is in the details but I'm interested in the general specs on that car.

Ah the old street vs race debate - that's one I have with myself every day as one disappointing thing about my personal toy is the high level of NVH. Tolerable, but certainly not anywhere near modern OEM (its a built from scratch tube frame deal, so I probably shouldn't be so finicky).

But I still definitely like the idea of lights, wipers, HV, windows (preferably glass), and some semblance of carpet and upholstery. Of course its interesting to let the bare bones style cars (ie roadsters) show up too, but not fair in terms of competition.

Of course it would be great to have a pro drive the top cars back to back and contrast and compare, but that's not gonna happen except on an ad-hoc voluntary basis.

From a marketing perspective, what I would really like to see the most is a breakdown on all of the entries with build sheets and links to build threads or web pages if they exist. A great opportunity for everyone to tout their wares, and satisfy us internet junkies. Right now all I have is some photos of cool cars and a scoring sheet with no idea what was involved with most of these rigs.

I"m the guy at all the car shows rolling around on the ground trying to look under the cars, as sheet metal bores me after about 2 seconds.

As far as a "pro" driving the top cars, the top cars already have top notch drivers driving them.

Why was no one crying about the incredible 1962 Corvette that was in last years OUSCI? Goodguys Street Machine of the year and SEMA GM design award winner. It did not even have a roof. I don't think that car has door glass either. Would that car not be allowed? Every car in this years competition had all the lights, wipers, glass needed to be street legal. This is not a "pro-touring" event. Some like more comfort features than others. All of these cars were street legal. Leave it at that.

No it shouldn't be allowed! Is that what you would like to hear?
When you have a roadster there needs to be a higher level of saftey. It did not have a roll bar of any type that I saw.
The speed stop challenge and autocross don't have a very high risk, but sometimes accidents happen (Like DSE 69 Camaro RTTH event). The road course version of the event has very high speeds and if there was an issue with a car with no safety equipment and someone got hurt, it could end the event from ever happening again. NHRA IHRA SCCA etc.. No roof more rules!!

Not sure what state you live in, but there were cars at the event without wipers. You need that to pass DEQ to be street legal also need working turn signals, and horn etc... I'm not saying your car shouldn't have been there. I think that going forward in events to come there needs to be some rules added or split into classes.