Pick up some upper control arms and the dynamics of that car will change drastically. Tubular control arms are basically a band aid on an already troubled front end geometry but they do make a drastic improvement.

I would post my top secret alignment specs but if I did.......well you know :lol:

So I've added the go-fast wheels and tires, Ricky Bobby alignment, T56 transmission, and racey spoiler so the car is feeling much improved and being driven a bit more aggressively…………..

About 5 weeks ago on a Sunday afternoon I had the first real Oh Sh*t moment I've had in 23 years of owning the car. While navigating a freeway off ramp with two great right/left corners and a short straight to a T intersection I was carrying a bit too much speed. I believe the combination of stock brakes, mediocre pads, and the 18" NT05's added to the situation. When approaching the T I realized the brakes were not exactly scrubbing enough speed :wow: As pedal pressure and weight transfer increased the rear drum brakes started locking the 275 NT05's, at about a 100 yards from the T I went into human ABS mode and started factoring options, none of which were good. I had a green light, a left turn lane with two vehicles, and an open right turn lane, and stopped cross-traffic to use for a berm in needed. Thankfully I scrubbed enough speed to literally back it into the corner and throttle out.

FWIW - My daily driver Tundra brakes would have easily made the stop, but with the Camaro I crossed the available clamping threshold line.

So in the 100 yds after near disaster, I cleaned and cussed myself for getting into the situation and resolved to initiate contact with Tobin at Kore3 as soon as I arrived at home.

After four days of question and answer with Tobin who is over the top good at accurately and honestly assessing customer needs I placed the order. All but one item was in stock and it arrived in four days and I drove up on Friday and picked up the components in person and spent some quality time with Tobin. He is really good people, besides being extremely knowledgeable, he is committed to integrity and genuine customer service.

My idea of a decent shopping trip!
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Cama...MAG1800-XL.jpg

So, over the last month I've been relatively busy in the garage.

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Cama...IMAG1939-L.jpg http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Cama...IMAG1884-L.jpg

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Cama...IMAG1883-L.jpg

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Cama...IMAG1888-L.jpg

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Cama...IMAG1882-L.jpg http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Cama...IMAG1889-L.jpg

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Cama.../IMG3693-L.jpg

Last but not least
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Cama...IMG3690-XL.jpg

Replacing all the front hard lines was actually enjoyable work. I had to fab a bracket for the stock metering valve since I'm still running stock rear drums, thus the reason for the rats nest of hard tubing around the master.

The brakes are the Kore3 GM C5/C6 Front Big Brake kit with upgraded 325 x 32 slotted DBA rotors and Hawk HP Plus pads, Kore3 hubs w/ 1/2 ARP screw in studs.

Finally some Stoppers! :woot: :woot:

Regretfully I have a perfectly good fresh 12 bolt with Moser axles and C-clip eliminator kit that I doesn't make for any decent rear disc options.......to the best of my knowledge. :mad:

Thats awesome Sieg. So Tobin didn't have any rears for you? I've been running the same Baer Track/touring set up since 2000. Not anything to brag about on this site but I have no complaints. See if you can pick up the rear touring set up from Matt and Kim at MCB.

Tobin has definitely has options, but we both agreed that Ford ends provide the better options and the fronts were manditory. What's your set up and real world experience?

I'm not a fan of knock-back especially on a bike, when you're timing braking points to split seconds, double-tapping to get pedal doesn't make for smooth corner transitions. :D

Having most of my aggressive racing or track experience on motorcycles on asphalt and dirt, weight transfer seriously reduces the amount of rear brake effectiveness. In my observations most people have a lot more rear breaking force than they need or use, though mid or rear engine cars change that opinion. So I could be out thinking myself a little on rear brake systems, but more due to knock-back issues than braking force.

I'm running a 12 bolt also but not the c-clip eliminators. Heard they tend to leak after awhile. I ordered Baer 6P's and then sold them because they were to heavy. IMO with decent brakes its all about brake pads. Cant give up my brake pad source due to the healthy competition but I gaurantee no one would ever guess who's pads. Awesome stopping power with great modulation and an even, predictable bite. cant relate to the knockback issues either.

One budget option I've considered is going back to C-clips with new axles which are realtively cheap and that resolves mounting issues and I can go to 1/2" wheel studs to match the new fronts.

What caliper and rotor are you running?

How are your pads regarding rotor wear? The Hawk HP +'s I have don't appear to be rotor friendly and they don't fall in the inexpensive category.

1/2" wheel studs are given. I'm trying to remember whos rotors Baer was using for the Track/Touring set up. I want to say Power Slot. Believe the calipers are PBR. I've had them so long I dont remember. I'm still on the original front rotors. Rears I've replaced once.
Have you been miking your calipers? Vince miked my calipers and jotted the number down with a sharpie on the rotor. We must still be within tolerance because he never mentioned I was due for rotors. As often as I drive my car I dont concern myself with rotor friendly pads. IMO they are a wear item but then again I am still on the original fronts and replaced the rears once.

One thing lead to another.........once I had the OEM brake system removed the steering box that I've never liked was staring at me and it had developed a little leakage. So...............

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Cama...IMAG1829-M.jpg

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Cama...IMAG1831-L.jpg

So off to Lee Manufacturing it went to be rebuilt and altered to 12.7:1 with 32 lb valving.

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Cama...IMAG1976-M.jpg

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Cama...IMAG1983-L.jpg

Lee Mfg. was great to deal with in every aspect. What was really cool for me was when I called to let them know I was shipping it out I got Tom Lee himself on the phone and ended up talking to him about bikes and cars for well over half and hour. The story about him going Indy as a driver with Micky Thompson in the early 60's was awesome not to mention a memorable honor. :thumbsup:

Back to business - Just finished bleeding the steering and before the end of the night I'll have the front wheels on and car off the stands ready to roll as soon as the weather cooperates. :unibrow:

I'm really looking forward to having these key contact areas of the car upgraded. :thumbsup:

Good chance they are PBR's which should do fine with the proper rotor material and pad.

Tobin mentioned the slots in the DBA rotors serve as wear indicators, check the minimum service spec vs rotor width minus slot depth.

I need to run up to his place to return a stand alone prop valve, so I'll quiz him more thoroughly on rear options.

Thanks for the input, I can't get too much insight from other enthusiasts perception. :thumbsup:

I really like your story and your car Norwood. I bought my second 69 in 89 also. I sold it after 17 yrs for many reasons and regreted it big time. I had 2 other projects since then but i still loved my old 69 so i sold them to get my current 69. I emailed you once about your car and vinyl top. Its funny that you want to get rid of yours and im trying to add one to mines. In my opinion vinyl tops are way sexy on 69 Camaros so if you leave it on i wouldnt dislike your car at all... just to prove to you how much i like your car im building it just like your car. Hugger Orange with black vinyl top. Just so you know i love drag lites and have them but i was currently looking at some vintage wheels myself. 18 inch all around... i one day will post pictures. So even if your car is low budget its still awsume and beautifull in some of us guys and im sure your friend is up stairs looking at you with two big thumbs up......

Thank you very much. :thumbsup:

One thing I loved about the Draglites was the weight, they are very light compared to the new V-40's.

My description may not be clear, I really don't mind the vinyl top on this car. It only works with certain color schemes and I happen to have one that works.......for me at least. :D

Looking forward to seeing those pictures. :thumbsup:

Well it's on the ground and ready test for leaks, bed in brakes, and see how the steering, braking, and shifting mods feel.

Now if Mother Nature would coorperate.........rain through Friday. :(

How's the spoke to caliper clearance in your new wheels?

It's about 3-3.5mm.

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Cama...MAG2023-XL.jpg

Thanks for the pic. Im looking to order a set of VWW also.

You're welcome :thumbsup:

Got a break in the weather tonight!

Pads bedded to rotors
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Cama...MAG2030-XL.jpg
Big improvement in clamping power, Kore3 set-up definitely exceeded my expectations. Even with the rear drums they'd suffice for a recreational track day.

The Lee steering box mods (12.7:1 and 32 lb. valving) are exceptional. Lock to lock is 2 1/8 - 2 1/4 and I like it! :thumbsup:

The American Powertrain White Lightning shifter felt very good but..........
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Cama...MAG2034-XL.jpg
See the bubble at 9 o'clock?

In twenty miles it's already leaked more than the Hurst unit in 500.
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Cama...MAG2035-XL.jpg

So is it me and my trans or :question:

http://d26ya5yqg8yyvs.cloudfront.net/baldy.gif

That sucks!!

Sorry to hear about your t56 issues. On your wheels with the 3-3.5mm clearance that's without any type of spacer correct? Would you say that's enough clearance even under spirited driving and wheel flex?

No spacer and it should be plenty of clearance.

That's a very polite understatement. :D

Not sure how I missed upping my post count by adding major insults in this thread!

Too many trips lately -- I'm going to have to stay home and catch up!

Great story - nice strong head - with weak skin covering....


:thumbsup:

I need to get you those aluminum heads.

I was wondering...........your lack of insults was creating a little anxiety. :D

Next Thursday somewhere on I-5?

Back to the puking shifter dilemma.

It's 5 a.m. and I just finished putting the car on stands and checking the oil level via the fill port. Checked for level, subframe was at 0* no oil weeping from fill port.

The shifter's shift rod mounts in the front position directly over the gear (aka oil slinger)
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/Hurst-B...IMG3683-XL.jpg

Here is the underside of the Hurst (L) and White Lightning (R)
http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Cama...IMAG2001-L.jpg

So the transmission vent does vent based on my hillbilly pressure test, yet when I parked the car after the first test drive at took this picture 2-4 minutes after it was parked you can see the air bubble next to the shift rod pivot ball, watching it live the bubbles developed very slowly, like 2 in 5-10 seconds, so not a lot of pressure but there is pressure.

The Tremec vent line has a venting aluminum cap, I don't know if it's calibrated to control pressure. I do know with compressed air pressure applied to the case my guage peaked at about 2.5 psi.

Is the vent line getting oil slung into it an negating it's function?

Is the cap too restrictive?

Does the shifter need a baffle to protect it from oil sling?

Do these shifter designs need a seal?

Seems to me that the slinging oil is the culprit. Can you try moving the shifter to the rear location and drive it?

Definitely an option. It's times like this that consoles are a PIA, at least the OEM design. :D

Probably not an option for GW unless he had someone in the back seat shifting for him. :unibrow:

http://www.desmonorthwest.com/forums...s/peepwall.gif

That works!

Looks like a forged crank.

I still like some type of dense flexible product in the shift rod cavity that you can cut the dimensions of square the shifter rod passes through. If it was me, I'd put the stock shifter on it and be done with it.

I agree with what Todd said. Have ever used the stock one? I'm quite happy with mine but maybe I don't know what I'm missing out on (aside from bubbling fluid, of course) ;)

Matt

If Hurst Drivelines hadn't instructed me to cut the seal out of my stock unit and fit it to their Blackjack the stock shifter would be on! Makes me wonder why they'd have me do that in advance for a shifter they've hadvery few leak issues with.

I've tried getting one of those stock boots from Tremec.......doesn't appear to be an option for retail customers.

I'm not sure on clearances, but somehow securing fine stainless screen under the shift shaft might work.

I have a call into to American Powertrain, we'll see.

I was thinking something flexible around the shift rod.

The issue is fitment with the OEM console..........which may not be long for this world. Then I can build a custom positioned shift-lever similar to Stielow's.

Like fuel-cell foam? If it's heat and ATF resistant.

Just got off the phone with Jim @ Hurst. That gear turns the same rpm as the output shaft, so it's a slinger. They'd like me to build a baffle to shield the shifter pivot from that gear...........

Also heard Tremec stopped product on the T56 Mag as they can't get shifters from their current supplier.

Go figure. Buid it and patent it. Then sell them the patent. :lol:

Just finished pulling the console and shifter and analyzing the situation. The clearance between the gear and shift-shaft is about 4mm, trying to fit a baffle plate in that space is to close for my comfort. Going to require more thought and sleep. :)

Locating a sealing boot that will slip over the shifter rod that has a flange so I can secure it to the underside of the shifter base might.

In the interim while waiting for American Powertrains response, Hurst I'll put it back together with with the shifter in the rear position away from the gear and see what happens. If that doesn't leak I could opt for:

1) Dump the stock console replace the new carpet, build another tunnel cover, and buy or build a shift lever.

2) Modify/build/buy a new console, build a tunnel cover, and new shifter.

:willy:

Don't you just love hot rodding?

Having an interior shop build a custom console isn't really that big of a deal, besides then you could have some cup holders :lol:

Matt

It actually sounds like Hurst is commited to engineering and incorporating a seal into the Blackjack shifter design. I also learned that the T56 Mag case is designed to accept an internal oil pump and has bosses for external cooler lines.

Currently they are right in the middle of relocating the company and employees from SoCal to new facilities in Sacramento.

I having trouble grasping how an engineer can design a shifter for that trans that in one of two mounting options will sit over the top of a large oil-bathed gear that spins the same rpm as the drive shaft and think that pivot ball design will not need a seal. I'm imagining that area of the trans housing looks somewhat like blender.

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/Hurst-B.../IMG3685-M.jpg

Hot rodding and my project timing. I had to laugh at Skip's comment about sitting back watching and learning from all our trial and errors before starting his own project.

What's frustrating is I discussed my issues with the Blackjack in detail with two key people at American Powertrain and asked them if their shifter would leak and was told it wouldn't. I left a phone message early yesterday and sent an email with pics mid-day, we'll see how they handle it.

I'd like to retain the OEM console and look, if not I'll retro another GM style or possibly build one myself next winter........I really just want to drive my car with the new transmission! :)