What can I say. I was visiting Margaritaville when it popped in my head. I couldn't resist.:)

Too funny buddy,,,, it was great chatting earlier today and I'll look forward to seeing you soon...

You must have been scratchin' your SCROTY when you wrote that one up!


I could see the smile on your face as the wheels were turning' to come up with that!

:thumbsup: :cheers:

I know but that would be nutz. LOL

I don't know man I'll echo Steilow thoughts SMOTY has turned into top dollar show all, all I have to say is good luck. Popularity alone might not be enough.

And when/if the perfect winning mega buck owner gets the car done, he hires a professional.............driver!

Who is Jeff?? I want to be pissed at him too.... :rofl:

A very rare rant on my part Greg,,,, sorry gang..

Maybe you were thinking of this?

http://blogs.popularhotrodding.com/6...ear/index.html

You do know that when BB struggled at Del Mar, calling for advice had said "Pro" opining with "Go back to your old set-up." There are so many different variations that allow suspension and chassis tuning but one thing is crystal clear. The car has to be compliant, first and foremost.

One question I asked in the very beginning of all this was "Are you chasing a time or chasing compliancy?" as if you have one, you'll most likely have the other. With a really, really good driver, something with holes in the handling can be forced to get around a corner and yes, turn a fast lap anywhere.

At last conversation with Cris and this may have changed by today, BB currently has very stiff springs and (I think) shocks set accordingly which, to me, doesn't work with my driving abilities. Neither Dave nor I have driven this car since it's initial outing at a local event so can't comment on what's happening currently. There are a lot of cooks throwing ingredients in the soup pot and hopefully one or two will hit on that special something that's makes it a winner.

Good luck!

Mary Pozzi

*Waits for Todd to post about how he he has been saying that every car needs to be tuned for its owners specific style of driving*

Matt

Racing is like golf. You will never perfect it, you have to love the journey to get better and realize todays success does not mean tomorrows success. Each day the course is different or the conditions change on the same course hourly.

Going to different venues and the nuckleheads here are the fun.

So with all the discussion going on, does anyone have any sneak peaks of who is bringing what to Columbus this year?

James- BB 2 is on hold till we finish out some other hot projects we have now.. We are taking all that we learned from BB 1 & building a purpose built car...

Albert- Thank you for the compliments on BB.. I apprecaite the props!

I have been working with DSE on some of the changes we have done to the car.. I have relayed info over to Kyle & have had in depth conversations with him about it.. He drove the car @ RTTC & Delmar.. but we have also had some of the best Auto-x drivers in the hot seat.. BB is gonna be a great car for the road course.. but still trying to find its happy spot on the Auto-X..

In the last year or so.. we have been pushing cars to the limits of what product was designed for.. DSE is aware that changes for adjustments on their suspension will be required.. The Mustang product they have been working on incorporates that.. Per conversation with Kyle.. I can't wait to check that out.. The cool thing about DSE product is you set the car to their recommended aligmment specs & you have a car that drivess just like a new car.. Tracks straight..

I know of some guys that are not engineers but know how to build suspension & are some of the best drivers.. so they can be very competive.. Stielow is a deadly combination! An engineer plus a "DAMM' good driver.. I would consider the Tuckers in the same catagory.. I would hand over to these guys & gals anytime to my own personal car to track it.. but would also do the same with Mary, Brian H, & Mike Maiers.. drivers can give you some much input on what a car needs for it to be complient..


Karl- Damm funny!

Ron- Thanks for reminding about this invite..
Karl- BTW we got invited to this event after Goodguys in Columbus! :D

Mary- With 850 springs & 550 in the rear.. we need some changes... Brian & Casey have recommended that we need to loosen the car in the front.. At MATS we disconnected the front roll bar & softened the rear bar.. Got the car to bite in a tight corner but the wave trac didn't like it.. We were losing power to the rear wheels.. We went back to the settings that we started @ when we arrived .. Delmar .. We were fighting a bunch of issues.. But their we ran with no sway bars to get the car to commit to tight corners.. But had plenty of springs.. The car is to tight right now on springs.. Plus changing tires.. going to Pilot Super Sports.. 305-30-19 in the fronts.. 345-30-19 in the rear.. These are the last changes & it will be ready for Karl..

I have learned alot from driver to driver.. But BB has never been happy on tight hairpin turns with You, Brian or Mike.. Karl was fighting it too @ MATS.. the car pushes off on a tight turn like that.. SO we are putting bigger tires on the front.. I also have to listen to you on the fact that the car needs to come up on the front too.. Kyle also recommended it..

I am hoping this special blend of soup will eventually will lead to better times & compliancy!

Bingo was her namo.

Finding the balance between street, autocross, and road racing is the real trick. Throw in the speed stop squared and it's gets real interesting. :_paranoid From springs, shocks, brake pads, alignment, power plant, you just can't have it all in every event. Pick one that you are great at or walk the tight rope. To me that's what this pro touring is about.

If your car knocks your teeth loose on the street or it wants to hook a rut on the road and put you into the median, that's not my idea of a compliant pro touring car.

When Cris, Brian, and I sat down to talk shop over some drinks, I told Cris what I felt the best compliment I had heard about the car. Brian said, "Blue Balz feels better than a new car and I can't stop thinking about it".

It's my opinion that many around here are forgetting that variable of the sport we enjoy around here. Do you want a race car or a pro touring car?

Not forgetting... it's the growing # and quality of events, and the desire to place well or win at these events that is driving the direction more than individually chosen goals.

It's a fair question, but more and more people are answering "race car" with their parts and tuning choices. And there's really nothing wrong with that.

Hell, we all know tons of nice PT (non-race) cars that can but don't get driven hardly at all except on a track or autoX. And maybe that's where this niche is slowing gravitating toward... cars that run on tracks and appear to be pro touring cars, but don't actually do the "pro touring" thing?

Seeing cars like Brian's car and Mike Maier's car kick ass and look and sound like they do will surely make many want to follow that direction. They have inspired me that's for sure.

Albert -- no need to apologize -- you simply wrote what many others already think. :thumbsup:

You are misunderstanding my direction here. My point is, you don't know what you have until your project is on the road. Not everybody around here wants a rowdy race oriented car and may not understand the difference until it's to late. Clearly you are about as far to the race side as could be. I talked to Matt Alcala last weekend and he said he would rather move more towards the other end of the spectrum and his car is far from rowdy. Everybody has their own idea of their perfect pro touring car. But do they have the experience under their belt to build it?

In regards to Mike & Brian. When Brian and I sat down we talked about this whole deal. I personally prefer these type of cars and I'm glad they have joined our group. It's just not possible to compete with them in a car like Blue Balz. My point was that Blue Balz is an awful nice pro touring car to turn into a race car. If that's what the owner desires, then so be it.

And that's a different point you just made and one most people have learned the hard way. I was "lucky" in the fact that I was building the wrong car for me (right at the time, or so I thought) and had to sell it. You have tougher choices to make because you built such a nice damn street car that you now beat like a race car.

If you're competitive like I know you and I both are, it is difficult to not succumb to making those "performance first" improvements. Especially when the fast get faster.

In regards to Matt... a blown motor will do that to ya. :lol:

I don't know anyone who isn't glad Mike and Brian joined the group... unreal cars and nice approachable guys with no egos. :thumbsup:

People have been saying that about your car for awhile now. :lol:

:lol:

Until you've lived it, you really don't know what you want. I've chosen my route. I can't lose the streetability of my car unless I want to cut the value of the car dramatically. I think I'll just keep enjoying myself for a while.:unibrow:

Alright Todd, I'll let you drive my car at El Toro next year. I'm hoping it will be sorted, however I always change things before hand, and every year I seem to bring a car with untested parts that break. The last two years my car has had engine issues, and the first year it was completely unsorted and had an idiot driver. Anyway, other than the sheer amount of noise yours makes over mine, you'll probably be surprised how far it feels from being a tame street car, despite looking it. I drove with Kyle Tucker back to back in my car and Rodger's Chassis Works Camaro, and mine felt way less like a street car on the track than Rodger's. Weird, huh?

Anyway, that got me thinking, and I realized, something that looks and feels like a race car doesn't necessary have to handle like one, and vice versa.

The one thing I don't like about my Camaro is actually its level of refinement. Often, I wish it was either more refined, or less refined. It is kind of stuck in the middle. Some days I love it as is, some days I want a car like Dave, or Brian or Mike has, and some days I want a nice quiet grocery getter like the Newman wagon :lol:

Going back to driving school recently made me realize that I really want a car kind of like my Camaro, but with a quieter interior, better ride height so I'm not always scraping on speed bumps, and every type of cooler known to man, including one to hold beer at Good Guys shows :lol:

Basically I want to build something like my Camaro but with a quieter interior and extensive sheetmetal work! In other words, something that harder in refinement, design, and driveability. Maybe it will be runner up to top five at SMOY, and mid pack at Optima :lol:

Matt

At the end of the day, these are still 40 year old cars. I'm not sure you could ever get them to the level of compliance you crave on the refined side.

I'm with you on the middle ground and days where I would prefer a full blown race car. I'm at the point where I don't care to street drive mine much. I put plenty of miles under my belt during the week. I don't come home and think, man I'd like to go for a drive. :lol: Then again, I do think I'd miss the street aspect. Those lazy cruises down the interstate, driving to the track, kicking ass, and driving back home. There is a certain amount of pride there as well.

I'll take you up on that test drive. :unibrow: :D

Eh, it's not like I want to turn an old car into a new 3 series or anything. I have much more modest expectations of my abilities, haha. I am beyond happy with my DSE suspension, I just want my next car to not scrape ground all the time, and to have less cabin noise. So it might get shorty headers, lizard skin, dynamat, etc. and old person like mufflers kinda like a new car. I've also decided I want more closely balanced tire sizes, but that is too hard to go into detail explaining here,

Oh and I want it to be faster than Payback :unibrow:

matt

Now you're pushing it.:lol:

This has been my opinion on the the status or Pro-touring for a long time.

Guys have been building cars more and more competitive for a long time. The best Modification you can do it start taking the creature comforts out of the car to make the car weigh less and less. We are now starting to see the purpose built cars come over from the Autocross Sanctioning bodies. These cars are really race cars with license plates. They have lots of rod ends and other parts you would see on a race car, Parts that anybody that drives their car long distances will begin to hate after just a few miles 9on normal pot holes. Things like Fiberglass doors, No side windows at all, rod end rear suspension links, very low ground clearance, ETC. As much as these cars have a license plate it does not make them a street car by the standards set out just a few years ago. Everything but a window net and a Hans device.

If you go back say 20 Years when Drag racing was all the rage and Pro-Street cars were every where. People were driving these caged up looking race cars with lame no HP engines. Pretty soon one guy put a fast engine in his car and so the competition progressed on and on. This is where the sanctioning body of say the Pacific Street Car Association started in California. Remember the Name of the Sanctioning body says Street Car. Well now it is it to the point that the fastest class they have, Pro-Street, is nothing more then a Pro-Mod drag car, they run in the 5's. Then the class below that is Outlaw 10.5. My buddy Roger Holder has ruled the True 10.5 class for quite a few years. Up until just last year they ran a street Legal Drag radial tire to the mid to low 7's. That was probably the only thing "STREETABLE" on the car. He ran some 726" 3 stages of Nitrous engine with a 3 or 5 gal fuel tank in the engine compartment. Not very street able. Now he destroked the 726 to a 588 and has twin 104MM turbo's. This car runs on alcohol and should be able to run in the 6.90's and is losing lifters after 14 passes with a redline of 10,500 RPM. It is no where near a street car.

So my point is that I think the Pro-touring segment of the car industry is going to make 2 different kinds of guys in this industry. Some guys will build Full on Race cars to go have fun on the track, Others will decide they would just rather go cruise down the highway in a car that drives really nice and handles well on a twisty road. I'm sure this new car Mark Steilow is building is going to be another step toward race car. He is motivated to win and has the smarts to invent a better mouse trap.

My other rant is that alot of these cars are not legal to run in anything more then these events. Which maybe fine for some and not be enough for others. But to me if I'm going to build a race car I would like to build a car to I can run every weekend in any event I wanted. I have been looking at racing at the local dirt oval here in Bakersfield for this very reason. You can race every weekend, The rules are the same almost anywhere in the country. So in my eyes I don't have the option to only race my car when Goodguys comes to Town or Bill puts on his event. But I'm a guy who if given 5 tri-cycles and 4 buddies and a set of cones we could race for king of the hill all night long. If you ever see the Big Boys from Nascar say what their favorite track is, it usually is a go kart track in Dale Jr back yard. It is just racing, No rules no drama, no cheating. Just get to the front of the pack. I raced Go Karts for years and had more fun on Thursday night practicing with my buddies then I ever did come Saturday when everyone was so serious.


OK pointless RANT over.

I think guys with the pockets deep enough to build that kind of car tend to race stuff like this


http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2700/4...9dd54d55b9.jpg

http://images.thecarconnection.com/m...00224155_m.jpg

Any pics of that? :)

:thumbsup: I thought you already bought the car your describing. all you had to do was remove the stripes and change the wheels.....:lol:

Shouldn't be too hard Matt, he had to use cheater tires to go barely faster than a Road Runner. :wow: Once. And couldn't back it up. Which means it was probably a cone missing on a turn. :willy: :willy: Oh snap*

Funny I'm 6'4" and ran a shifter kart. I remember I had to run an extended porch and then went to a Renspeed frame cuz I didn't fit in the others. I'm sure I looked like a shriner in a parade in that thing. I think he is even taller than me.

Here would be my one and only contribution to this thread.....

I thought PRO TOURING was exactly what we're all talking about?


A truly street drivable car with creature comforts that is CAPABLE of running a road race or auto cross course and doing reasonably well. Driving to and from in comfort and style with the tunes on full blast.....


Note that capable does not equate to winning.... it means placing well. And it should only be placing well against similar cars. Race cars are race cars and pro touring isn't. :cheers:

Actually, he got that time because I was riding in the car with him :lol: True story.

Greg, I think you should put 200 tread wear tires on that little Mustang and throw a repop carpet in it. Make it a real street car...

Oh, and when you said "tunes at full blast," is that because it needs to be that loud to hear anything well? At least that is how my car is...

Matt

Oh -- and a few other things like headlights (I have none) - wipers - street able exhaust - turn signals....

Tunes at full blast - because Todd can't drive well without some heavy metal running thru his pretty little head.

I don't think they make 200 TW in 15"

The doors on the MuttStang have the winder tracks covered up with nice aluminum lest there be some wind resistance....



http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/a...%20car/014.jpg

He had to duck down because the wind resistance would hold him back

Very well said, Greg ...

Mary Pozzi

I'm sure with 200 runs under my belt I could've become a little more consistent. :unibrow:

Should have bought those Hotchkis hood pins instead of the Ring Brother's ones. Maybe then you could join the H-Team, although I think they want fast drivers.

Matt

p.s. Greg, you don't need wipers or exhaust, and you definitely don't want windows - I think that is the secret behind Brian Hobaugh and Brett Campbell being so damn quick.

WOW Matt that was so Awesome.

Warning now Todd will make pointless video about you. HAHA

LOL, seriously. I'm pretty sure I could go to my local Walmart parking lot, throw some random 300lbs woman in my passenger seat, blindfold myself, and still drive that course down to within an inch of the line. :woot:
Last year was worse; I think we had figured out the Road Runner had done 360 something runs over the 3 days. Brand new set of KDW's were corded by the last day. :(

I'm not philosophical enough. :lol: BAM:lol:

:lol: That's some serious track time to wear out a set of KDW's!

Dan'll probably blame me for that as we had to put the 'Runner to the fire when the Challenger radiator sprung an impromptu "leak."

Mary P.