Ironworks is one of the vendors that I have used in the past and have had zero problems with. Roger spent the time on the phone with me to find out exactly what I needed and delivered as promised. Sometimes it's worth spending a few extra bucks to know your parts are going to get to you and if you have a problem that someone will answer the phone when you call. I'll be using Ironworks again when I'm ready to spend more money.

Then the next guy will just get sucked into the trap. This politically correct crap needs to stop in this country. If someone knowingly lies, they will cheat.

Agreed Todd! We have a lot more money to spend on our project moving forward. I would love to know who to avoid. This project is going on 5 years already due to our issues. I don't want vendor issue to stretch it out any more! I would rather be informed ahead of time. :thumbsup:

weird.

I have ordered easily upper five figures of car parts over the years and have very rarely had a problem. But I also drop vendors who don't deliver like a hot potato, I am very fanatical about using their website or a phone call to determine if they actually stock the item, I will buy from Summit or Jegs if at all possible or I go manufacturer direct. I also call and get tracking numbers and if they can't produce I cancel the order. Even though I'm just a hobbyist I change my mind and my build order a lot so I run all my stuff as "Just in time" in other words I almost never order parts months beforehand or let things sit around for long, so that makes me even more sensitive to delivery. I also don't order a whole passel of parts from new vendors without a proven track record.
Another hint is any company that doesn't answer the phone is usually crossed off my list pretty quick. Same thing if I start getting "stories", boom, order cancelled.
I do all my own work so I'm not quite as dependent as some people on speciailty vendors. Also, I can see where a pretty custom item like Fesler door handle or billet hood hinge might be a delay vs something more mass produced.

But still, these kind of horror stores surprise me as I have not really had that many delivery problems over the years.

Sometimes a dealer will quote 10% lower than the MFG, but I still almost always order through a MFG for the same reason as quoted, why create a new middle man ? I usually don't need the technical expertise they provide because again I do my own research and fabrication.

I hear ya Todd. I'm not trying to be politically correct at all. I really think its the way I do buisness with these guys. I'm not a DICK !!! Let me explane. I ordered a fiberglass headliner from Marquez, had it shipped directly to Troy. Troy calls me to tell me it arrived but damaged. So instead of going off I told Troy take a good look, if its a easy fix take care of it. I made a call to Judas to let them know they need to change the way they package there headliners. This is pretty much how I have dealt with everthing on this car thats why I think I'm the problem! I'm to easy! I let alot a crap go!!! But that has changed big time!!! :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

You're no good... but you're easy!


I've known some girls like that... :unibrow: :thumbsup: :woot:

Rutt row!:wow:



http://www.hark.com/clips/wxlbjpczll...s-jason-bourne

:unibrow:

I didnt even think Marquez was still in business.... I mean they never answer their phone which is why I never bought parts from them. They strung me along for a year on a dash and I finally said F it.

I heard this a few years back and man, it has proved out to be true.

"Time reveals what interrogation does not."

Over the past couple of years I have spent about 45k on my project. My first purchase of a little over 8k was from Frank @ Prodigy. I was told 6 weeks for the set of Forgeline wheels/tires and the G-Link rear suspension. 4 Months later I finally received my G-Link and I received the wheels/tires only after I bypassed Frank and made a call directly to Forgeline. While I was waiting for my order to arrive from Frank, I ordered a DSE subframe direct from DSE and six days later it was on my loading dock. I also ordered a 9" floater rear end direct from Moser and it was delivered in 11 days. But the vast majority of the parts I have purchased have come from Summit or Jegs. Summit and Jegs are my first line vendors.

Man, I pity the poor sucka if he delivers any of Mario's gifts late...

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k1...nta-121112.jpg

I think we've all experienced this at one point or another from companies large and small. One of the worst experiences I've had was with one of the biggest names in the auto-aftermarket! Customer service is a problem our industry needs to work on as a whole.
The current issues we are facing is everyone tightening inventories in anticipation of new taxes, regulations, and the greater unknowns of our economy. Supply chains are stretched thin as it is and when one company trips it creates a ripple that gets bigger down the chain. Companies are trying to save as much as possible so even getting raw materials is becoming a headache!

After all the crying, let downs and out of my limit buy in's I have had to put a deal together with Atech. Overnight service, near dealer pricing and a multitude of items it was a no brainer.

I want to spend money but im a small guy in a big business world and just don't have to deep pockets to meet a huge buy in plus a monthly quota.

I still buy on the shelf stuff from my local speed shop just to help out but having to wait a few days to get my parts on a clients car can make or break my business. I know how it feels Mario and I hope you got your parts.

I probably spend 15k a month with Atech. It is not always the absolute cheapest deal and because of the exposure we get I have been able to get the deep deal from some companies with out a big buy in or minimums per year. But Atech is still a better deal on anything less then 500 bucks. Free shipping on orders over 500 and the margin is decent. I use Atech also for the day to day parts for our builds tell customer when they would be better off to just call Summit or Jegs cuz my leg work is not worth the 2 bucks I might make to have to ship back a return or whatever it is. Same with Tire Rack. Now we can kill it on quite a few companies, Ridetech, XRP, Moser, Wilwood, GM performance parts, HRE, Budnik, Vintage Air, SPD, Formula 43, Rick's Tanks, etc.

You would be surprise what the free shipping deal will do a 15% margin over a 25% margin plus shipping.

I also think the majority of the Hot Rod shop Ponzi scheme shops have fallen by the way side or learned their lesson. I know there are some guys who still don't get that they do need to make a profit to survive and that getting every sale may not be a good thing possible may not be a good thing.

Rodger

You guys are killing me with all this talk. I was actually hoping it was just me and the fact that not a soul really knows me or my car yet. i just want to avoid as much of this as possible along the way.

Vince I'll get my parts I'm not worried about that. :D Just don't understand why these guys have to BS you it makes it worse on them..

WOW 180K a year with Atech? They must love you

This might just show my ignorance and stupidity on the subject, but why not just go through the manufacturer? A lot of the companies I've worked with in the past couple years have been quite good to work with directly.

Many will, some won't depending on what kind of retailer agreements they have.

Plus I prefer to order online so I don't have to talk to anybody. If they don't have it online I make my wife call, another bonus for them.

Don't forget I also buy tires and ball joints for my race car from them in that 15k. You guys race so you know what Im sayin.

This is a chronic issue with our industry no matter which side of the business you are on. As a builder I try to go direct with the manufacturer whenever possible but to answer the question a few posts back about why everyone doesn't just buy direct is that to get discounted pricing with a wholesaler or manufacturer you need a buy in (anywhere from $5k to $15k for a manufacturer) and then sell a minimum amount of product every year to keep your discounts which for a small shop isn't typically feasible. Next best thing is buying through a wholesaler which will have a smaller buy in and a smaller yearly minimum but it could be 10%-30% difference over buying direct. The advantage to a wholesaler is that you get access to a wider variety of product with your buy in. Typically most shops start with a wholesaler then go direct with a handful of manufacturers that they use the most.

To get back to Mario's original gripe about the lack of professionalism in this industry it is unfortunately ingrained in the culture. Many of these small manufacturers and dealers are small businesses....They may make these bad-ass products that we love but many of them are struggling to survive in this economy just like the shops are. They don't have the capital to invest in more staff, better equipment, etc or they don't for fear of the lean times so they do what they can to keep up. Can you count on both hands how many small manufacturers or dealers/shops that have gone out of business in the last 5-6 years of this recession? The ones that do stay alive are typically burning the candle at both ends trying to hold things together.

Couple that with the fact that much of our industry is talent based... this guy may be the best widget maker in the world but can't figure out how to run Quickbooks to balance his business checkbook or keep track of inventory on hand to build his widgets so he knows when to reorder from his suppliers. How rare is it to find a guy that can make the widget, balance the checkbook, and handle the phone? How many shops have you come across that are booked wall to wall with work but the owner is so busy out in the shop that he never answers the phone? Sounds common sense to hire someone to run the front end of the shop while the talent guy runs the back but it never seems to happen and customer service suffers, then business suffers, then the bank account suffers....

This isn't even taking into account that with the cars we build we often deal with odd-ball equipment. A couple years back I needed 3 FE EFI intake manifolds but they were on back order with Edelbrock who was waiting for enough orders to do a production run. It took 9 months to get those intake manifolds.

15 years ago the only people buying these parts were building racecars and those people understood that if they wanted a part they were either going to have to wait for it or build it themselves. They understood that these racecar parts were loud, stiff, and rattled but in this last decade as these parts have made the transition into street cars the industry has had to evolve as the customers and cars became more sophisticated. Manufacturing processes and technology have allowed these parts to be engineered and mass produced. Materials technology has allowed them to be made better, lighter, and quieter to meet the demands of todays customers. The manufacturers have also had to increase their level of sophistication with technical support, marketing, and customer service in an increasingly competitive marketplace. If a manufacturer is not growing with the industry nowadays they will not last long.... same with a builder.

And everyone on here thought I was the only guy building an FE.:D

Victor intakes are easy to come by now but good luck finding that Mallory TFI distributor you probably used. :rofl:

Don't disagree with anything you said, but it doesn't take any technology, business sense or anything else to NOT LIE to customers. When you don't have it and are not going to have it for x weeks, months, whatever SAY SO! When you take money and say you will do something you don't, that's fraud! If someone places an order and you are up front with the delivery no matter how long and the customer signs up for it, that's fair. I think that is the main issue here. Saying whatever it takes to get an order is dishonest and should not become the accepted practice in this industry.

The reason I asked is that we've seen these "I got screwed by XYZ vendor!" posts a lot over the past few years and it would seem to me that it would hedge everyone's bets to possibly pay a bit more but at least know you'll get your product.

I know there are a few manufacturers out there who don't sell direct to customers, but by and large the places I've dealt with (see parts list on my car) have been more than happy to deal with me on the phone/email.

Every place will have hiccups here and there, but I've found that being cordial and giving people the benefit of the doubt goes a long ways. I've had it happen a few times where I was clearly at fault for breaking a part or installing it wrong and the manufacturers picked up the slack for me (they really didn't have to) and exchanged the part even though it was obviously my blunder.

Then again, I'm also the guy who when building an engine or ordering parts, will make occasional (but try not to be annoying) calls or emails as to inquire the status of my stuff. Always polite of course and never accusing. I've found that 'checking in' every little while seems to keep my name fresh in their minds.

Of course, this goes without saying but all 'inquiries' should be polite, cordial and at least make an attempt to get to know them just as much they get to know you. It never hurts to take 30 seconds and ask how they are doing.

Anyways, my $.02

True...it does not take any technology to not lie to a customer...BUT, it does take some sac. It is human nature to: 1. avoid confrontation [ever ask a 10 year old if he broke something or another?] 2. attempt to please another human.

In addition, our industry is populated by entrepreneurs who are, as a group and to a fault, optimistic that they can truly fulfill the promises that they have made to their customers, their bankers, their employees and their families. It is the hardest thing in the world to say "no". It is also a learned talent. At least in my experience.

These offending vendors are not, as a group, dishonest. They just don't know any better.

Same end result, unfortunately.

I agree with you Bret. I think alot of entrepreneurs should look to your business as a model. I especially agree with you about saying no is a learned talent. I am the Engineering/Manufacturing Manager for an OEM heavy equipment manufacturer. We have a unique business model in that we do not produce anything. We have 100% of our products contract manufactured. It becomes very difficult making commitments to our customers when I have to rely on vendors for everything. Have we missed our commitments in the past, absolutely. But because we are in constant contact with our network of vendors, we communicate any schedule changes to the customer as soon as we know of them. It is rare though. The latest we have ever been is 3 weeks on a 600k piece of equipment that was a 25 week delivery to start with. In our business like yours we do have to say no. We hate it and try to avoid it like the plague, but we do say it when we have to.

I also agree that when this happens to a start up company, it is growing pains and learning curve. When it becomes normal course of business, I believe it turns to dishonesty.

In the end, I am hopeful that the face of this industry continues to improve. With companies like yours that newcomers can look to as a model, i am hopeful. Threads like this are invaluable to consumers and vendors. I hope to enter this industry at some point myself and will try to keep all this information at hand when and if I do. :cheers:

Well said Chad!!!! :cheers:

Keep a eye on the vendor feed back forum very soon!:mad: My hell continues!!!!!!!!!!!!

Definately agree with the above comments... Call me an eternal optimist and although there are always going to be those rotten apples who are going to lie cheat and steal merely for their own gain I believe that most of the aforementioned offenders don't start off with the intent to rip people off. It starts off by them getting a little behind here and there and just like a gambler it evolves into the "one more" complex. "If I get one more order I will just work harder and I will get caught up..." "One more order and I'll get that funding from the bank..." It turns to white lies, and unless something fundamentally changes it can lead honest people down a darker path. I'm not justifying it.. just calling it like I see it and it happens all the time in this business. Once you start getting behind its hard to work your way out of the hole unless you change something foundationally with your business; obviously if the business is slipping behind something is not working. No Government bailouts for this part of the auto business.

I definately agree that there is no room for dishonesty of any sort in any business. If you have to lie about what you are doing... you need to find something else to do.

Yes, I'm a fellow glutton for FE punishment... I do quite a bit of FE work. Mostly blown, mostly EFI. No Mallory used here... had too many finicky issues with them on mostly stock stuff to trust them. I have good luck with MSD even though they aren't perfect either.

http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/v...atermarked.jpg

I can't figure out how to properly embed it but the pic below should be a video link...

http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/v...h_DSCN8341.jpg

:faint:

They have their quirks but when you get the recipe right they run great. I run and MSD but the new Crane unit with a steel gear and dial in timing curve is a pretty cool piece.

Mallory used to make a TFI model you could use with the stock Ford mass flow EFI stuff.

I have come to conclusion on this situation. I always go to our supporting vendor sponsors first when I need something for my car. I think for me its best I no longer do this. I don't like to use this forum for these situations and think its best to use it for what its meant for. Jody has been awesome helping me in some situations in the past month. And I don't think this should be his problem. I'll support the forum in different ways.:cheers:

Here's a funny story that I'll preface with the fact that we have a 93% fill rate these days :yes:

An enthusiast called the other day, interested in one of our parts. He loves and needs the part but was terrified that we'd take his money and disappear. I told him to pick a number between one and five and I'd hold up that many fingers in front of the actual physical inventory and take a photo with my cell phone.

Know what his answer was? "How do I know that you don't just keep five photos on hand and then send which ever number I state?"

He was dead serious. So I asked him to think of a word --any word-- and I'd write it on a piece of paper, shoot the aforementioned photo in front of a pile of parts RIGHT NOW and text it to him. He actually needed me to follow through on that promise before placing his order. The word, by the way, was Cheeseburger. He must've been hungry as well as shell-shocked.

The situation has created a lot of fear. Good vendors suffer alongside the enthusiasts because, enthusiasts aren't especially going out of their way to post positive feedback. And this whole thing about not mentioning names? Enthusiasts can't tell which companies to avoid, and which to try.

If you're having difficulty with a vendor, get your money back and buy somewhere else. About 90 days should be your absolute maximum limit for standard items, unless otherwise arranged between you and your vendor. Not nine months. Not a year and a half.

SO WELL SAID:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Steve is a straight up great guy! He was a pleasure to deal with. Listen to what he says as he has a very good outlook on what we are all looking for. we have had several conversations on this. In my opinion it's because in the end, he is an Enthusiast too! :thumbsup:

Thanks!

Why did I just read this before lunch.... :willy:

Well guys as of today its been three months and still no trans! So as I patiently wait for its arrival I wonder how the next phase of this deal is going to go. My last conversation didn't go so well and I have no choice other than to WAIT !!!!!!!!!!! So now I'll see how they handle the end of this deal knowing how much I've been screwed over. This will be interesting.

Can you pm me who you're dealing with over there? I saw Matt post in the other thread, can he not give you a shipping/delivery date?

That is AWESOME! Wait till I tell our sales guys!