Dave,

We are going with the E67 controller along with at least one C6 fan control module and the C6 AC pressure switch as you outline above to supplement the Vintage Air controls as far as request for fans is concerned.. We have two questions:

1. We are wondering if we have to use a body control module to enable the AC pressure switch to provide a fan request signal to the ECM or if it can do so directly without a body control module?

2. We know you doubt we need 2 modules for our dual fans but if we end up going that way, do you suppose the ECM will care that there are two modules receiving it's PWM signal vs one?
We are doubtful that it would be an issue since the ECM is just switching to ground but thought we should ask.

Thanks again for your help!
Lou

Dave, or anyone, does this apply to the earlier LS1 ECU (411) as well?

And Lous69, are you also wanting to do this so you can run the oem compressor with a VA system (of which most people say not to do because primarily there isn't any pressure control)?

Don't mean to hijack your thread but I'm sure others are wondering the same thing - could be of value for a lot of us. If its doable but a completely different situation I can start another thread. Thanks. -Bob

No. We are using the Vintage Air Compressor.

1 -Does not need BCM input in addition to AC pressure. Between all inputs for fan DC request, largest wins so just need to have AC pressure switch and cals populated for fan % vs. AC pressure.

2 -I've never tried running 2 PWM modules from the single output driver, so can't really say if it'll work or not.


All LS1 controllers I've worked with (P01, P59) are set for descrete fan drivers, not PWM. Can always set up to run parallel/series for 2 speed operation.

It's been so long since I've worked with one of those (outside a car it came in) I'd have to look to see if can run AC pressure switch in to control fan output.

Need help with PWM Fan module wiring
 

Has anyone got a PWM fan module to work? I have an LS2 motor from an 05 vette that I would like to wire with PWM fan control. I have the correct module for the E40 ECM but can not find the required pigtail or a wiring diagram that matches the module.

There are 4 main vertical pins on the module 1-4 labeled M-, 31, 30, and M+ there are 3 horizontal pins 5-7 that are not really labeled but may be PWM input.
I have attached link to an image of module.

Anybody know how this is wired and the part number for the connector?

Thanks for your help.
Bill

http://www.astautomation.com/images/Fan-Module.jpg

Getting closer at least I know what it looks like

http://www.astautomation.com/images/Connector.jpg

M- = Ground to fan motor
M+ = Power to fan motor
30 = Battery power (fused)
31 = Ground
Pin 6 = PWM input (in your case - E40 controller - J1-36)

Connector is sold as part of fan harness, which is part of cooling fan assembly - Part # 15819952 (AC Delco 15-80657). I found a few connectors separate years ago, but have since used them all.

Thank you very much, now for the connector hunt.

Other end of the connector looks like this;
http://images2.carpartsdiscount.com/...m_15819952.jpg

I found it on the web, I dont have one. Looking though.

Thanks let me know, I found a motor with one on eBay, but kind of hate to buy a motor just to get the connector.

Bill

I didn't have any luck finding a new connector.

Thanks for looking, I bought the fan motor with connector on eBay, figured having a spare fan motor could not hurt.

When you get it, see if it has any kind of PN on it.

Have one here, this is all that's on it:

48769 4
PA6 GF15
PA6GF30

PA6 likely a reference to the connector material.

Aftermarket (crash part) mfg's are making replacement fan assemblies that come with the connector so someone has to be making it

I have figured out that there are many Mercedes Benz cars with similar PWM modules that appear to use the same connectors. That makes the search for used connectors a little easier but Mercedes also does not sell new connectors separately.

According to some threads on the Corvette forums there have been connector failures. Not surprising since they have to carry high amperage and are just spade terminal connections.

Since the end of the PWM module is conducive to potting, we are considering just soldering wires directly to the pins for the best conductivity and then potting with an electrical grade potting material.

This picture shows where we decided to mount the Corvette PWM modules.

Only one module shown in these pictures.

A second module will be mounted on the outboard side of the same bracket.

The stray wires are prepared and ready to be plugged into the second module.

http://v8tvshow.com/1969_Camaro_LC/s....22.13_112.JPG

http://v8tvshow.com/1969_Camaro_LC/s....22.13_017.JPG

These forums have allowed us to speed up so much of our learning that I feel compelled to "give back" in order to help others the same way.

Dave Mikels, (Mikels Performance Engineering) works closely with Brian Thomson (Thomson Automotive Engines) to create serious but dependable Horsepower for the likes of Mark Stielow (Red Devil, Mayhem, Camaro XV).

That is impressive but what I find most admirable is that Dave and Brian have not let their success go to their heads.

What I mean by that is I was impressed when I called their business and they answered the phone personally.

They each put a high priority on first learning what I wanted in my application vs. just rattling off what they have to sell off their shelf.

They did not make me feel stupid when I asked them the same questions I know they have answered a thousand times before.

Unfortunately, similar businesses that have enjoyed as much success as Dave and Brian have evolved into a take it or leave it approach to customers.

Those of you who have been following this thread have seen first hand how willing Dave is to help people figure things out and benefit from his experience.

He is the obvious choice for me. I spend my hard earned money carefully. I'm actually proud to be one of his new customers.

Thanks to Dave's knowledge, we are getting a lot more than just a performance tune matched to select Thomson engine upgrades.

We're also getting seamless integration of PWM fan control, Reverse Lockout without a need for a separate switch and Vintage Air A/C.

In case it helps your own builds, here is the Lou's Change set up and what Dave is doing for us right now:

ENGINE:
We are starting with a brand new LSA crate motor
We swapped out the CTS-V Intercooler top hat with a new ZL1 top hat. (I'm pretty sure that was an idea Brian suggested to me when he talked to me early on in the build. I had no idea they could be swapped out so easily)

ENGINE MODS:
Supercharger Pulley change (2.56:1 to 3:1)
Cam Swap (Thomson Spec.)
Valve springs (Thomson Spec.)
Injectors (Thomson Automotive Spec.)

ENGINE CONTROLLER:
We are using the GM Performance Parts E67 LSA controller that came with our LSA crate engine.

FUEL SYSTEM:
We have the full Vaporworx system installed in our DSE tank complete with the fuel pump and controller they provide (rated for up to 1000 HP).
We will use Dave's advised 450kPa fuel pressure

ENGINE COOLING:
We have a C&R cooling module along with the 2 fans they provided (rated for up to 1000 HP)
We have installed 2 brand new PWM fan control modules like those used in the C6 Corvette.

INTERCOOLING:
We are running a Mazierre 55 GPM intercooler pump
We are using the same intercooler heat exchanger used in the GT500 complete with fans.

AIR CONDITIONING:
We are using the Vintage Air Generation 4 A/C system
We are using a Sandene Compressor
We have installed a GM A/C pressure switch
We are still using the Vintage Air Trinary switch to the control compressor

TRANSMISSION:
Brand new T56 Magnum
We have a Vehicle Speed Sensor installed and connected to the VSS lead that was included in the GMPP engine harness as purchased.

REAR END:
Ford 9 inch with 3.7 gear ratio

HERE IS WHAT Dave is doing for us:

Installing pin out and a labeled wire for the PWM control module.
Installing pin out and a labeled wire for the GM A/C pressure sensor.
Installing pin out and a labeled wire for reverse lock out.

CAL:
Capture original factory Cal

Enable and program PWM fan control:
- PWM vs. Discreet
- 128 Hz PWM frequency
- 204 degrees engine coolant = 10% duty cycle
- 235 degrees engine coolant = 90% duty cycle

Program fan control parameters for “after run”:
- If engine coolant temp. greater than 235 degrees or A/C pressure greater than 260 psi at key off = 50% duty cycle until engine coolant drops below 230 degrees AND A/C pressure drops below 241 psi.
- Otherwise, fans shut off after 2 minutes regardless of temperatures.

Enable Vehicle Speed Sensor control of reverse lock out.

Reprogram table for AC pressure control of fans. In order to use Vintage Air/ Sandene compressor, need to change table as follows:
- Fans all in at 90% duty cycle at 260 psi as measured by GM A/C pressure sensor.

LSA Engine Performance tune per modifications selected
- Supercharger Pulley change (2.56:1 to 3:1)
- Cam Swap
- Valve springs
- Injectors

I'm suspicious Dave and Brian will have some more suggestions before we're done. I'll post what we learn as we go and report back to validate how it all worked.

This thread is priceless and these are some of the issues we have all been faced with.

Just curious what is going on with the pwm controllers on this car? Did you ever find the connectors, Is it working?

The car is in body and paint right now. As soon as it is out we will begin assembly and report how it all worked.

We sent the ECM to Mikels Performance and he did the tune and all the modifications mentioned above. Since he has done the same things for Stielow's last few cars we do not expect any big surprises, but we'll close the loop in this thread relative to how the fan controls work.

Love the updates and summary post. Thanks very much for that.

Just tonight I pulled my GMPP LS9 harness apart. I removed the bulkhead portion of the harness, and moved the wires over to the pedal, OBDII connector, etc. portion of the harness to go with all the other wires coming inside the car. I also removed the rear O2 sensor wires -- the GM instructions tell you simply that they are unused. Well, now they are coiled neatly on my workbench. And don't get me started on the coil/injector connectors. They are backwards, and GM includes a little whoop-di-do to fix it.

Sorry, I forgot where I was going.

Here's my question: can Dave or Mark or somebody post the pinouts for the ECM (E67) so I can add a

1. engine oil temp sensor, and
2. GM A/C pressure sensor, and
3. 2nd fan control wire.

Thanks!!

One more question: where did you source the C6 PWM controller? Did you post that pinout? Sorry if I missed that...

More information about my harness: both high speed (pin 54/connector 1) and low speed (pin 49/connector 3) fan controls are connected to the same single fan relay.

The A/C sensor is not connected (pin 57/connector 3, I believe). I can't find any information about engine oil temp.

More information
 

The A/C pressure sensor is wired in at pins J3-21 (reference ground), J3-37 (reference 5V), and J3-57 (signal). The PWM control wire is J3-64.

There is no EOT sensor wired directly to the ECM, so that part of the equation is out. Have to rely on ECT for that, which is obviously just fine, especially if you use the C&R Racing water to oil cooler. Using the C6 PWM, the cooling fan PWM control wire from the ECM (J3-64) goes to connector 6.

Get all that wired correctly and the rest is just tuning via HP Tuners (which Dave told us about way back at the beginning of the thread).

Did we ever figure out if the one fan speed wire could drive two PWM controllers?

Thanks guys!

ps. Many thanks to Scot McKittrick for getting me the E67 pinout. Using that, my 07 Z06 Helms books and an online LS4 book is how worked all that out.

Anyway, in this ongoing thread where I'm talking with myself :) , I'm wondering if anybody knows how the control wire works from the ECM. I'm assuming that it varies voltage, but I don't know that.

If it does vary voltage, what's the range and which direction does it go? Say if the voltage varies from 1V to 11V is 1V 100% fan, and 11V 10% fan? Or is it the other way around?

LSA and LS9 engines utilize the I/O channel that is sometimes used for oil temperature for IAT2 (post intercooler Intake Air Temp). There are no additional I/O channels to take in engine oil temp on the supercharged engines.

A/C pressure sensor wiring is correct - and can be adjusted to fan driver output based on A/C head pressure. Remeber - highest requested fan driver percentage wins.

E67 controller has 3 fan output drivers - however, when used with PWM fan control, only one of those outputs is utilized. It provides a PWM output at frequency specific to the fan driver controller. I've not measured voltage based on PWM % output to determine what way the voltage goes based on desired output.

When fan drivers are used as discrete outputs, they can be used to close relays that can then be wired in parallel, series or parallel series combination to drive mutliple fans at low and high settings.

I'm a huge fan of PWM cooling fan control as I HATE listening to high speed fan during anything other than track situations that demand it. Nothing worse than pulling up and having the sweet rumble of an engine masked by a fan screaming away.

Can all of this be programmed into the GM Performance Parts LS2 controller?

Yes - All GMPP crate engine controllers are E67's and can be programmed for fan control in same manner.

You're forgetting E37, E38 and E40 ecus.

Me too on PWM control.

So... net net: I need to use a C6 fan controller since it is definitely compatible with the E67. For dual fans, I need to use two controllers, and hope that the E67 can drive two PWM controllers from the same wire.

I've run 2 fans with single PWM C6 fan controller (have to look at total power demands and keep in limits of fan controller) and know that works.

Lou is trying dual PWM modules controlled by single PWM output from ECM -will know soon the success of that route.

OK, that's good to know. I'm using the C&R Racing setup with their dual Spal 11" fans.

Is that the fan setup you know works?

Corvette fan is 400W - so at 12.5 V, that's 32 A. So long as your 2 Spal fans are below that current level, should work fine.

Anyone have a PN & source for the connector terminals?

A quick check of the dual 11" Spal fans shows current draw less than 32A.

Looks like I'm golden!

Thanks all!

x2, and looking for cavity plugs too. I've heard reference to "micro 64 connectors".

I have found this site.

http://www.obd2allinone.com/sc/details.asp?item=m5j3

Looks like you can pick up the connectors there. 10 / $2.95.

Forgot I had a document with some information in it. Like GM PNs for the pins, don't know if it will help finding them or not.

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/f.../e67_pins2.jpg

Here is where I bought my PWM modules:

http://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-15-808...rol+Module+Kit

You can't open them without damaging them but I was curious to know how the insides of the Corvette version compared to some pics of similar MB units I saw on the net. Here is what the Corvette version looks like inside. They are different than the MB units that look the same on the outside. The MB units do look like they use the same connector as the Corvette units but they will not sell them separately either. I gave up on finding a connector. We are attaching the wires individually with appropriately size female spade connectors.


http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/...psf9e7bbcb.png

Thanks Lou! I just ordered the last one in stock.

I remember trying to find this connector before, seems like it has 4 big terminals & 1 small one, or is there small ones? Is it sealed like a weatherpak connector?

Anyone know the GM part number of the PWM module? Maybe I can have some of my old Delphi co workers track down a connector.