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Lots of good feedback ....I'm glad I asked the questions.
I just can't see how someone can wait so long Over 3 years or more to get their car back to them.....especially if the customer has the money. I guess it's basically pure relief to just get your car back it seems and you deal with whatever problem arises later...LOL I have lots of good information to go by when looking for a good shop and will ask for some customers to call for feedback. |
What are you looking to have done and what area?
You can get plenty of suggestions from the members here. |
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Great question Dan.... The reason I ream some Orygone azz (otherwise known as STEVE FRISBEE) every chance I get is because not only did I not get a decent project outcome (as far as running and driving)... AND the idiot tried to charge me for fixing stuff I'd already paid to have done right the first time! Now --- MINE was a brand new build -- and it went back to the shop within days of picking it up -- on at least 3 or 4 separate occasions! If you actually plan to DRIVE your car... beware the "show car builder" you see around at indoor car shows but you've never once seen someone actually driving their stuff! On the extreme opposite side of the above mentioned bozo --- was Jeff Kugel of Kugel Komponents who not only sent me two complete sets of "stub axles" -- he then paid to have the complete rear end disassembled and had CUSTOM one off stub axles built -- NO CHARGE.... zero zip nada! WE are friends now! He's a great guy... and never once made excuses. He just worked towards a solution. I would "like to think" that most shops want a happy customer - and frankly - when you get all done -- you should be good friends not just "a customer"... There's going to be "issues" when you're doing custom builds... and I would think most shops are going to help you resolve them. |
I'm going to bet price isn't always the best indicator of quality either, high or low. Youknow if it's too cheap, You know it, don't kid yourself or say that it's just a good deal. That deal is going to cost you some where down the line.
But, the flip side of that is a high price doesn't always get quality either. I'd be willing to bet GW spent more on the car he was unhappy with than the car he is going to love. Jeff- |
I guess I am one of the lucky ones. Eric@Griffith Metal Shaping, built my '71 Camaro in little over a year. It would have been quicker, but the Body Shop took longer than expected. This was a complete build front to rear. It was the main car he worked on that year, but he is a workaholic..
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NO QUESTION!!! And the sad part is.... The Briz was my FIRST CHOICE to re-do the '32 but I gave The Bozo the job because he'd built the car originally in 1994.... I've regretted that decision ever since! |
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Some of us have been to Eric's shop --- AND seen his work! I'd put him right up there with the others I named! Like I said - when I was typing that I just couldn't come up with every name I'd have liked to! Hey! Damn it! I'm old! I once did mach 2 in a turbo Ferrari.... I have a little brain damage.... |
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I'll second SW's opinion on Eric. If you are in the Texas area and looking for a shop to do some great work, and most importantly, someone to stand behind it (I cannot express enough how great Eric has been in that sense), you should make a road trip to Austin to check out his shop and work. He doesn't have the biggest shop to house 10 projects at once, but his attention to detail is amazing on the projects he's working on... |
I was a little hesitant to respond, but a common mistake I see often is what I refer to as bodyshop builds. I see a lot of people trust there builds to body shops. Now dont get me wrong i know there are very capable builders who have body and paint capabilities on site and I'm not referring to them, but to shops who's main business is collision type work. Because a shop may do incredible paint work, doesn't mean they have the knowledge to properly build a car from ground up. I mean properly set up suspensions, stance, brake systems, electrical, hydraulics ect.
Ive seen cars if they were engineered correctly from the start, there wouldn't be drilling into fresh paint, to install things that should have been prefitted before paint. I see hydraulics with improper line types and fittings. improper wiring sizing, wrong fluid transfer hose types and sizing, wheels with wrong offsets, sizes and rubbing issues with tires, wrong brake pedal ratios and MC bore sizes, calipers not shimmed correctly. Incorrect driveline angles Ect.ect. There are some great "bolt on" parts out there these days that make it easier for a lot of people to minimize these mistakes and I don't think these shops are purposely trying to half ass anything, but there specialty is not the technical aspect of the build, it's the body and paint. A lot of times they realize they're in over there head after the car is painted and assembly begins, then the car just sits forever with fresh paint and nothing gets done. We get many calls from people with cars in this situation I don't want anyone to think I'm referring to all body shops, just the ones who who say " sure we can do all the mechanicals on the car as well as the paint, how hard can it be" - WITHOUT, knowing how hard it can be. |
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I strive to do the mechanical and "engineering" to the highest level expected from the build budget. There has to be some compromise always to some degree other wise you will always end up over budget. Not all cars need to be built to NASA or Race Preped specs.(for lack of a better comparison) things like brakes, steering, NEVER get compromised on that would be STUPID |
Brizio doesn't do ANY paint -- or body work -- or upholstery... there is not one can of bondo in his shop let alone a spray gun.
My guess is that other than Charley - nobody could tell you who paints his cars... Sid Chavers does all the upholstery. My only point here is -- that he is still controlling the dates and quality because of his relationship with the outside shops. I was never asked where I wanted my paint and upholstery done. I don't think there is an option. HAHAHAHAHAHA HOWEVER --- I agree with the general statement that in most cases I'd want to pick a shop that also did the paintwork. STEVE ---- AKA EBMC ---- I was going to rant about taking a PT type build to the local body shop... and just didn't because I already have way too many posts! HAHAHAHAHAHA |
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But for shops whose PRIMARY focus is on body and paint is when I see a lot of problems crop up with overall finished product quality and time frame. Its just been my expeireince with the frequent calls and e mails we get. |
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We ask customers how much money they are comfortable spending in a billing cycle( every two weeks). Do they want to spend $30K in a month or in 6 months? Its the same money, just over longer period. if a guy says I can spend $1000 a month, It hardly pays for the spot the car is parked in. Also momentum is a big plug. When we have to stop and start due to lack of $$ (which rarely happens at our shop) It kills the momentum and costs more in the long run. Better parts come to market, styles change etc. There is a beautiful Nova here in town in bare metal that was supposed to debut at the 2003 SMOTY competition. It has a ZL1 engine and directional 17" billet wheels with old school Baer brakes. It needs a complete make-over today Anyways..stick to a plan, get the $$ together and pull the trigger. We average about 12-14 months right now- Chris |
All I have to say on this is DO NOT SEND YOUR BUILD TO A BODY/COLLISION SHOP!!! There is a reason my car is at BBT and not my own shop. I can go on and on about this but I can tell you this if its a busy shop your car will never be a priority . You are asking for trouble. Find a good RESTORATION/FAB SHOP to do your work .
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Great thread should be a sticky on how to pick a builder for sure.
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Unless you have a large budget and a lot of time or want something unique I wouldn't bother. Look for a car that you can buy and enjoy immediately. My car has been in process for more years than I want to admit. The car is a complete build rotisserie job that started in 2004. The last piece of the build, interior and electrical, is said to be completed in 2 weeks but it has been at that shop for 18 months. Prior to this many delays were due to me changing my mind, etc. A lot has changed in 10 years so my car will be a dated in terms of technology. When I started I had everything DSE offered but that was before the quadralink and hydroformed subframe even existed. The work is very good but it has taken a toll on my patience and a lot has changed in my life since the start of the build to the point that I really don't even feel like I want the car anymore. January 2012 I bought a completed car from this site for a fraction of the cost of my build that I was able to enjoy as soon as I got it home.
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My 65 Nova has been on my chassis jig in my home shop for 5 years now-that's FIVE YEARS JUST ON THE CHASSIS JIG!! But, I've never built a chassis before, I've done all the engineering myself and built every single piece in my own shop. I get a little discouraged sometimes, I'm in my late 50's and have my fingers crossed that I'll live long enough to finish the car.
I live in New England so working on the Nova is mostly a wintertime project. Summers here are short, and I have a Fabulous Harley Softail that I like to get out on as often as I can. I also have a 69 Z/28 and my wife owns a 66 Buick convertible that I maintain. These are summertime cars so I do what it takes to keep them rolling in the nice weather and the Nova takes a back seat. And, of course, there's ALWAYS the "disposable income" issue. The car is a 65 Nova 2 dr sedan, I've built a 2x3 rectangular tube chassis inside the car with triangulated 4-link rear suspension and a complete custom C4 Corvette front suspension-that's been a time-eater, believe me! I'd post a build thread but I don't like having to use an outside picture-hosting website to put pics on here, that takes too much time and I'm kind of a dinosaur with this computer stuff-I van barely handle the basic stuff! Peter |
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