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As long as it quits leaking, it's all good!!! :D
Sure seems like the seal should help anyway. |
This weekend I was able to finish up the performance minded wheel alignment, reset my pinion angle and bolt the street tires back up and run down to the car wash to rinse the layer of shop dust off the car. During the test drive I noticed a bit of interference coming from directly under the console and pretty much knew what it was right away. Between lowering the pinion angle 2 degrees and a slight raise of the body from the frame, my drive shaft loop was now just a bit too close to the drive shaft. With the car back up on the crib stands (Man, I've used the heck out of those things since building them) a closer inspection revealed that the loop was just a bit off center and just a bit too close to the yoke.
A couple of large washers were used to space the loop down a bit and that did the trick. Another longer more intensive test drive proved the fix worked, no more interference. It was in the 50s outside and sunny, which is warm but not really summer weather. The ride started out a bit springy I'll call it. As with most ride characteristic changes, they were more evident from the rear of the car than the front. There seemed to a be a bit more of a bounce after a bump from the rear than before. The more I drove it though, the better or closer to normal it got. Could have been just getting more heat into the tires or possibly even a little bit of a break in period on the body bushings. The front felt a little bit different also, but I also made a pretty drastic change to the wheel alignment (-0.6 to -1.6 camber) which I'm sure had an effect too. My GoPro battery was dead so I couldn't do any data acquisition but it's on the charger and I still might get another test trip in the books this afternoon yet. Plan on checking the front frame horn flex under hard cornering as well as pinion action under hard acceleration, braking and turning. Overall though, I can not complain about any extra NVH from the Polygraphite Body Bushings. There may be just a touch more feeling from the smallest of bumps transferred through to the driver's seat, but nothing that a pound or two of pressure out of the tires wouldn't alleviate if it really concerned someone. Overall, I'd call the project a success. |
Was able to grab a bit of video today...check this out.
Kind of a big improvement don't you think? Surely that improvement in rigidity HAS to help with the steering input feel on the autocross course, right? |
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I remember when I changed out the stock rubber body and core support bushings on my Camaro with solid aluminum and went for the first drive... it felt like a different car. The steering felt so much more precise. I wouldn't be afraid to go with aluminum in the future. I didn't notice any excessive harshness in the ride when I switched... it just gave the car a much tighter, more precise feel in straight line and cornering. :cheers: |
Snow day = Shop day
Since I'm going to run street tires full time this summer, I had to find a way to get my billet wheels looking nice again and more importantly keep them looking that way. First up, cleaning them up and polishing them. Brake N Parts cleaner on a rag was used to clean the back sides of them up of grease, gear oil and brake fluid then Mother's billet polish was used on the fronts. I've found the best way to do this job is to get a nitrile glove, dip a finger in the polish and work the polish onto the rim with the glove. This lets you control the amount of polish (little goes a LONG way) and also makes it easier to work the polish into all of the nooks and crannies. https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-7...100400_079.jpg I then take a Mother's Polish cone on an electric drill and work the polish back off the rim. This works pretty good to get the majority of the spots and blemishes off on the first go around. Usually still have some spots left though and I take my glove and work polish back into the areas missed. This makes it a bit easier to watch the spots work out as you work the polish in. I finish it off with a microfiber towel polishing all of the nooks and crannies. Here's one of the rear rims polished out... https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-m...123412_037.jpg And here is one of the new rims to compare it too... https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-I...123431_197.jpg I realized that my cell phone takes terrible pictures of shiny billet aluminum...but it was snowing too damn hard to go back into the house to get the good camera so this is all we have for now. I even did the back sides of all of the rims too... Mother's billet polish applied https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-E...123346_182.jpg and taken back off... https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-7...123338_105.jpg The next step is a sealant to help keep them nice looking under daily driving duties and after races. I've ordered some of this stuff up and will be applying it to all 6 rims later this week. http://www.shineseal.com/products.htm http://www.shineseal.com/images/prod..._final_150.jpg It used to be called Zoop Seal but they have reformulated it and now call it Shine seal. It works a bit like Sharkhide, another aluminum sealant that I have used to seal the pontoons on my boat. It seals the porous aluminum surfaces and puts a protective coating on it to keep the aluminum from oxidizing, makes brake dust just blow off and resists water spots making clean up super easy. There is a cleaner, sealer, slick finish and bright shine metal polish in the kit. They say the sealer goes on kind of like rain-X. Bit like a solvent applied best with a new cloth diaper, let it haze up...then buff it off with a microfiber towel. Once the metal polish is used, the aluminum is supposed to shine as good as if not better than freshly polished billet with no sealant on it. We'll see... I can't drive it regularly with them the way they were though...this I know. Hopefully this relieves some of the hassle involved with daily driving billet rims. If this doesn't work...they are getting plasti-dipped... |
SHARK HIDE!
It's what the commercial truckers (and I) use on aluminum.... Very expensive - but works http://www.sharkhide.com |
Sharkhide protects great, the pontoons on my boat look just like they did three years ago when I applied it, I was just a bit concerned about how it would dull the finish of the finely polished billet aluminum.
The Shine Seal is supposed to not affect the shine at all. We'll see. I still have just a bit of Sharkhide left over...maybe a test is justified? One wheel with Sharkhide and one with Shine Seal... |
Well the wheels look fantastic! And that's a lot of work I know...
Yeah --- you wouldn't want them to dull out at all... and now that you have them spiffed up -- doesn't take as much to keep them that way. |
I got the ShineSeal kit in, I ordered the Master Kit which is says is good for 80 sq ft. Here it is along with the diapers I'll use for applying the sealer and the microfiber towels for polishing.
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-l...o/DSC04247.JPG https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-K...o/DSC04248.JPG The bottle on the left is their Bio Cleaner which I mixed 1 oz with 16 oz of water in the spray bottle. This is used to clean the metal surface of any contaminants before the sealer is applied. The Metal Sealer is the bottle second from the left, this acts and works very much like Sharkhide. It's the sealer that gets rock hard and protects the aluminum from anything penetrating it. The third bottle from the left is the Slick Finish, this may be what separates this kit from the other aluminum finishes on the market. It goes on like a wax but you don't let it dry on the surface you just keep polishing on it until it is all taken back off of the metal. It's the cat's meow... The 4th bottle from the left is a Brite Shine Metal polish that you use should you ever need to clean the Metal Sealer back off of the aluminum. I guess if you ever wanted to polish a shine back onto the surface you'd clean the sealer off with this, then polish, then reapply. I cleaned the outsides and the insides of all 6 wheels with the Bio Cleaner and a microfiber towel. This wasn't a big deal in my case because I had just polished all of these wheels with Mother's Billet polish so they were already what I'd call very clean but the directions said to so I did. I then used a diaper to apply the sealer to the outsides of all 6 wheels. It goes on kind of like Rain-X, is very solvent smelling, and is tacky and kind of hard to tell if you are getting an even coat on, especially in all of the nooks and crannies most wheels have. I'd much recommend anyone that is doing this project to have the wheels off of the car laying flat and everything that can be taken out of the way (center caps etc) off the wheels as well. Once I was fairly sure that all of the outside surfaces had a good coat on them, I flipped the wheels over and coated the hoops on the inside. I didn't spend the time or materials to do the back sides of the spokes as they'll never be seen. Then it had to dry and set up. I ended up letting them set for about 24 hours. You can tell if it's not set up by running your finger on the surface, if it smears...it still needs more time. After BioClean, before Sealer https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-S...o/DSC04249.JPG Same wheel after Sealer applied but not dry yet. https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-k...o/DSC04254.JPG Brand new wheel before Sealer https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-f...o/DSC04253.JPG Same wheel after sealer https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-W...o/DSC04258.JPG All 6 caps...can you tell which two are brand new? https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-I...o/DSC04260.JPG This morning I went out to see if the sealer was dry, and it was...so I set about applying the Slick Finish. Before the Slick finish, the surfaces were kind of tacky...well not tacky but your finger still stuck to it just a bit as you drug it across. The Slick Finish goes on pretty easy and you just apply it and polish it back off working in small areas as you go along. It turns that somewhat sticky surface into a smooth as glass almost Chrome like finish. It is unbelievable... It also lets you polish smooth the top layer of the sealer if there were any areas where you got the sealer a bit too thick. Those areas showed up after the first coat of slick finish is applied and polished out and you just go back over them with a bit more Slick Finish and a clean microfiber and it polishes the surface out super smooth. This is the step that really finishes off this process nice and I believe it HAS to make the surfaces of the wheels MUCH easier to maintain nice looking. The highly polished areas of the wheels feel just like a chrome surface now. After I was certain the outsides of all of the wheels were as polished as I could get them I flipped them over and applied the slick finish to the insides of the hoops as well. Probably over kill and unnecessary but remember my goal is to get these wheels as maintenance free as I could get them and that includes keeping the insides of the hoops as nice looking as they can be kept as well. Here is a close up of a used wheel done...Sorry, it's taken with my phone but again, it'll have to do for now. https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-3...104612_257.jpg The camera makes it looks more scratched than it is...to the eye they look pretty dern good. Here is a new wheel all done... https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-3...104624_317.jpg As you can see it looks great. I wouldn't hesitate to put this treatment on any brand new aluminum wheel...in fact, I'd recommend that you do apply it to your new wheels as soon as you can. The product does nothing to the shine of a billet wheel except protect it and keep it great looking much easier. I did the insides and outsides of (2) 17x8s and (4) 17x9.5s and this is what I've got left of the kit. https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-N...110753_054.jpg Plenty of Bio Cleaner left over which they say you can also use to clean the wheels with now to maintain them, probably enough Metal Sealer to do the outsides of the wheels one more time, the Slick finish it's hard to see but there is still lots of it left also, I barely used any out of the bottle and never even opened the Brite Shine Metal polish. And here's the instructions that came with the kit. https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-_...110821_987.jpg Later on after I've driven with the wheels and got them dirty a few times I'll revisit and update with how they have held up. I think it's gonna be good though, it HAS to be better than maintaining just the bare billet aluminum. |
Wow what a difference the front end upgraded poly bushings made.
The wheels look great, you did a nice job on them. |
Lance I just read through your entire thread, and I have to say nice work man. Perseverance pays off in the end. Love your car!
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Thanks... I like to say that it keeps me out of the bars... but really I just like making something better with my own hands and this just happens to be my canvas as of late.
Best part is, I get to drive it, hard...after I finish making it better. |
With Ron Sutton's help, we picked out some brake upgrade parts for Barney and I got them installed this weekend.
We decided to upgrade the front calipers to the larger metric calipers with the 2.75" piston and use some EBC YellowstuffR pads. This should increase my front brake force from 1804 pounds with the R4 pads and stock calipers to 1973 pounds with EBC pads which will hopefully be a bit more street friendly while at the same time work well for autocross. If I want more braking or if the fronts tend to lock up significantly faster than the rears I can upgrade the rear pads down the road. Best part was, this was all bolt in parts, no modifications or geometry adjustments needed after the upgrade. Here's the stock D154 caliper with a 2.5" piston https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/--...o/DSC04308.JPG https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-E...o/DSC04309.JPG And here's the new Afco Large Metric caliper with a 2.75" piston https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-F...o/DSC04307.JPG They aren't sexy looking, but were bolt ins that didn't require any other modifications and provide a significant increase in braking force. https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-U...o/DSC04310.JPG https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-U...o/DSC04312.JPG |
There ya go Lance!
I personally put on big brakes years ago on the Nomad... and I only did it for looks really... since the car never saw any action... and I used to laugh about all the "show cars" that began putting on these huge multi piston drilled and slotted systems. Guys used to ask me about my brakes and my smartass response was that all those big brakes didn't mean squat because the two piston / single piston combo I took off were MORE THAN capable of overcoming the tires traction. Obviously for racing etc -- there's the issue of heat dissipation and blah blah blah --- but for the street and mild track use... I really wonder how much brake we really need or use. |
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“I spent half my money on gambling, alcohol and wild women. The other half I wasted.” ― W.C. Fields |
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yeah i tell my wife that, she just laughs. After building god knows how many cars, bikes, guns, etc i don't need to make excuses anymore |
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Baseball player Tug McGraw ... well know as a party guy & ladies man ... modified it to say, "Ninety percent I'll spend on good times, women and Irish Whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste. "
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I dealt with a power steering fluid leak most of last year, it appears that I overheated the fluid during a track day early in the year and cooked an O-ring or two in the process. So I removed the PS pump and warrantied it out for a new one...and last night reinstalled the new one with new O-rings on the high pressure line. I also plumbed in a Power Steering fluid cooler at the same time. A friend found the cooler for me, I believe it came off of a mid 80s GM truck. I didn't get to take too many pictures during the install as I was in a hurry to get it done so I could get a road test in of the new brakes and wheels and tires (more on that in a minute) while the weather is nice. Here is the cooler hanging from the bolt that holds the center brace of the core support in front of the AC condenser.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-S...191946_362.jpg This is taken with the radiator and condenser laid back towards the engine and shows the PS cooler mounted. https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-7...191924_334.jpg The cool thing was there was room where the AC lines come out of the air box to run the PS lines so I didn't have to cut any holes in the air box. Now the cooler is right in the middle of the air box and with the electric fans on they'll draw maximum amount of air right over the cooler all of the time which should help it do it's job real well. All I have left to do is flush the old fluid left in the steering box out and fill with new fluid and that job is complete. Then I can road test my tires and brakes... Last years track tires vs this years... Old track tire on the right, new track (and everyday) tire on the left https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-H...124549_406.jpg Overall dimensions are just about exactly the same, the Falken has a half inch extra tread width though (hope they fit). https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-I...124519_426.jpg https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-r...124222_696.jpg https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-k...180055_860.jpg https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-w...180120_485.jpg I'm betting...that these street tires give me just about as much grip and stability as the used Hoosiers did last season. Plus, they look a TON better and I can drive them to and from the racetrack. |
Not to scare you --- or anyone else for that matter.... just sayin'
STREET / Track tires off the R8 after ONE DAY of tracking it. I was lucky to be able to replace all 4 -- let alone be able to "drive home". http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/a...EMA/file-3.jpg |
If I do that to these tires autocrossing Greg, I've got larger problems than just tires... LOL...
Put about 50 miles on her today, got the brake pads bedded in and shook everything down. Man...this car rides and drives NICE now...that's all I have to say about it. :) https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-t...o/DSC04356.JPG https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-i...o/DSC04357.JPG https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-_...o/DSC04358.JPG https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-P...o/DSC04362.JPG https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-3...o/DSC04361.JPG Very happy with the fit, finish and form factor of the wheel tire combination. No rubs anywhere and it just flat sticks in high speed spirited corners. |
So we now have 3 autocross events under our belt this season plus a test n tune session. That equals right at 30 runs so far on the new setup. Everything has gone pretty well with all of the off season upgrades. The power steering cooler seems to have worked as there are no growling noises coming from under the hood even after back to back runs. The body seems to be still sitting squarely on the chassis and overall everything feels a bit stiffer and more predictable on course. The brakes feel fantastic...just love how they just grip better and better the hotter they get. They don't dust up that much anymore once they were broke in which is just an added bonus. And the tires...I can't say enough about the tires. I believe even given apples to apples the car would be faster on these Falkens than it was on the Hoosier A6s. The car is just so much easier and more predictable to drive on them, not to mention being able to drive to the course, drop the air pressure a bit...then drive home. No more trailering... Love Love Love the tires....
Now for the bad...I noticed Saturday as I was backing the car out of the garage to get it ready...a puddle of rear end gear oil coming off of the right rear tire once again. I had put a seal in the axle housing end and it kept everything dry for a bit over a month and 25 autocross runs...but the leak is back. This also had an effect on my runs yesterday as I'm certain the brake pads on that wheel are oil soaked as well which would render them useless. I also notice a bit of a shudder under a load on trips home from the track. It's like something in the rear end doesn't play nice when it's been subjected to the severe duty for a while. If I had to guess, it's an axle bearing getting hot. I've also drove through the clutch a couple of times yesterday, slipping after shifting into second gear after the starts. It doesn't slip anymore on the track and hasn't shown any signs of slipping on the road, but it was the original clutch that came with the T56 supposedly out of a 1999 LT1 camaro with 59,000 miles on it...so a disc replacement may be in my future. My next project is to pull the axles and do a crucial exam of everything rear end related and see if I need to replace any parts and try like hell to figure out a way to seal that rear axle up once and for all. Here are some pictures from yesterday's event. Had a ball out there... https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-w...dG+-+Imgur.jpg https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-z.../Event+3+b.jpg https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-z...10822b76_o.jpg https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-3.../Event+3+a.jpg https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-o...9abaf031_b.jpg https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-q...bd004e05_o.jpg And here are the videos of the 5 runs from yesterday. |
So I refreshened the whole 9", new bearings and seals throughout and once I was certain the leaks were stopped I replaced the rear brake pads with EBC Yellowstuffs. Yesterday was my first autocross since the changes.
So, how much does an aluminum rim flex when pushed real hard with sticky tires on it? About this far... https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-K...152149_516.jpg Thought I had enough room so I left the 1/8" spacers out when I put it all back together this last time, apparently I was wrong. No major damage though, I was checking it after each run and it wasn't until the 4th run that it burned through the shine seal on the rim...that stuff is TOUGH. Here's the video, not for the squeamish if you don't like the sound of metal on metal... http://youtu.be/ZMqR7Cl6XRE Here are the raw time results for the day. http://www.kcrscca.org/results/solo/...event4_raw.htm and here are the results by class http://www.kcrscca.org/results/solo/...event4_fin.htm Pretty typical finish for me as of late. Had I not hit those 2 cones I would have finished 29th I think, right in between two BMW M3s. I was working on a few things as a driver and really helped the car handle better but at the cost of taking out a few innocent cones along the way. |
Probably flexing the axle more than the rim itself.
Car looks great in the pics Lance :thumbsup: |
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Agree -- the axle flange... Although that appears to be a cast wheel... and I would think it would be cracking if flexed that much. IDK |
They are Billet Specialties Rallys, Forged I think but can't find the specs for sure.
http://www.billetspecialties.com/whe.../wheels/rally/ If it was the axle flange flexing, wouldn't the brake rotor be getting into the backing plate as well? |
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Thanks Aaron. I'm really having a ball driving it this season, both on the track and off. |
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The rotor is smaller in diameter and is INSIDE the wheel so shouldn't be hitting anything. |
Lance -- I don't know much about suspension and handling --- and there's guys on here that do.. but it looks to me like you are experiencing quite a bit of body roll... and that's probably not a light car... so by the time you put some side loads on there -- and then add the weight of the car (looks like lots of daylight between the top of the tire and the fender lip in a big turn)... it's got to be pounding the wheels -- the tire sidewall - the axle flange - and your seals and bearings.
Not sure what can be done to level that out... whether that's stiffer springs - or more anti roll bar or a combination of those parts. |
Trust me Greg, Ron Sutton and I have been all over getting the car to roll less. Car weighs 3511 pounds and is rolling a LOT less than it used to before we added Ron's magic to it, but it still needs a much stiffer front sway bar, and that is money I'm just not able to throw at it right now.
Working on getting some solid endlinks to the front sway bar soon, every little bit helps. Not sure if you've ever ridden in an autocross car that really handles but it delivers an incredible amount of force on every part of the car, rolling over or not. I'm not surprised the wheels are flexing, I was just a bit surprised they flexed that far. Nothing a little work with a grinder won't fix. The spacers I had in there forever worked to make room for everything but they were the cause of a slight vibration at highway speeds I was chasing down. Taking them out fixed that, but caused this issue. I'll get it fixed up soon. |
Forgeline told me that a wheel will flex 2-3mm under extreme load.
I'd say this is your red flag for the axle leak. You need to get those axles moving in and out less. Check the end play with a dial indicator and see what you have. Car looks great by the way. My first car was a 1981 Monte with a 327. Totaled it....haha |
Good looking car. I liked the photo shoot at Smithville Lake! Hope to see you around the northland.
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This setup uses the Ford Big bearing axle end with the big sealed bearing, then a spacer the same thickness as the brake backing plate then the retainer plate to hold it all in place. I just replaced everything with new but even with the old wore bearings there was no discernable axle movement at all. Also the drivers side has never leaked gear oil, it has always been the passenger side. Pretty sure I've got that covered now with the correct axle seal plus the bearing with the O-ring around the outside of it. I have a hard time believing the axle flange is flexing that much either, that thing is massive and it seems to me that if the axle flange was flexing that much, the brake rotor would be flexing with it and it would be contacting the dust shield which is connected to the housing and I saw no marks of it ever touching last time I had it apart. Not saying it isn't moving a little bit, but I think this is more the wheel flexing than anything else. I can fix this issue with 30 seconds of grinder work so it really isn't a big deal, but I posted about it just to show the evidence of just how far the wheel moves under the kind of duress I'm putting it through. My first Monte was a 1978...I put a 4 bolt main 350 in it and totaled it as well... :whistling: |
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I'm always around, you should come out and watch us race sometime. |
Roller or Tapered bearing?
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Could it be that the differential is moving from side to side?
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Sealed roller bearings, these are the new bearings pressed onto the axles before we pressed the keeper rings on.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-3...134049_479.jpg This picture was taken with the old bearings and rings on the axle, we were setting it up to cut the old keepers off of the axle. It shows just how beefy the 31 spline Moser axles are. https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-z...125928_305.jpg |
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When I took the spacers out and put the grinder to the shock mounts, I thought I had plenty of clearance on both sides. Once I put the wheels back on I discovered that my index finger would fit between the rim and shock mount on the passenger side and only my pinkie finger would fit between the rim and the shock mount on the driver side. I figured it would still be enough though which was a mistake. 30-60 seconds with a grinder will fix this so it really isn't a big issue...but I thought it was interesting to show just how much the rim is flexing under pressure. Also, there was NO marks on the rim after the first three runs, it wasn't until after the 4th run the rubbing actually burnt through the shine seal coating on the rim...so even though it sounded HORRIBLE, it must have just been touching, not really grinding into the mount. |
Gotcha. Not familiar with those cars so I may have misunderstood the first time. I imagine if the differential was moving side to side you be doing something more like rubbing quarter panel.
Interesting info on wheel flex. One would think that the tire would take lateral load before any rim flex. |
Yeah Lance - didn't realize you had Moser axles - thought maybe they were stock...
You're probably right that it's the wheel and just not enough clearance. Cut to cure! LOL Just keep talking to Ron -- he'll have that turned into a race car as soon as you hand over the money!!! HAHAHAHAHA RE: Ride-alongs @ AutoX.... Let's see.... FINCH - HOBAUGH - POZZI - LACATA - SHIPKA... I've suckered them all into letting me pee myself in their cars. Oh yeah - they can put some pressure on equipment! But there cars also corner much flatter... |
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