Nice ... I was wondering how they might work out, looks like they are just what you need for the swap.

Thanks for sharing .... might be a rev. 2 for my 12 bolt!

Wow that is a great looking kit for the 9" almost makes me want to swap to a 9.

"The directions don't include a single measurement or diagram to help you locate the brackets. They make it seem like they fall into place but that is not the case especially when using a 9".

After calling and getting as much info as possible I starting installing the brackets. I needed to modify the upper brackets to fit on the 9" housing but finally got everything where I thought they should be and welded the brackets on."


The products are great but I have struggled with the directions as well and called several times to clarify. I was hoping they were a little more detailed.

It is great setup. I lucked out and the timing worked perfectly for this build.

You can use the flanges with the 12bolt but you would have to tear it apart to put it in a jig.

You need to build another car. I remember seeing you have one of Scotts subframes sitting around.

I just hope more builds start using ABS. I need more info so its easier when I try to add it.

It is great that they have people on the phones answering questions but i would prefer all the info added to the instructions. I work on my stuff at night and dont like to make calls.

I finished installing the 4 link and 9". I decided to keep my frame rails since they are in great shape and thicker replacements were offer $500.

I tried to strengthen the frame and 4 link bracket to prevent cracking. It looks like the other cars frame cracked in front of the 4 link cradle/bracket. This is where the frames are thinnest from being bent.

I took a piece of 1/8 angle iron to strengthen this area. I welded it to the ridetech bracket hoping it would help distribute the load. I also welded the ridetech bracket in a few spots to help secure it.

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/...psf5iya1tp.jpg
http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/...psaitmhe1y.jpg
http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/...pseonxzve9.jpg
http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/...psmslybtqh.jpg
http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/...ps9y9aiz7i.jpg

Now that the rear suspension and axle have been installed i can finish up the trans and driveshaft tunnel. The 6l90 is huge and requires the trans tunnel to be widened and raised. The yoke is also very high compared to other trans and required the cross brace to be replaced and the driveshaft tunnel raised.

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/...psrbhqapl5.jpg

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/...psxqnoeray.jpg

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/...psbq51iiai.jpg

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/...ps1xkeczb0.jpg

With that done i am going to work on test fitting the interior. I am stealing the seats from the chevelle. I like them a lot and they will work better in the trans am.

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/...psuc1rvgln.jpg

The interior has been installed. I mounted the seats as low aspossible. Im only 5'9" and have 4" of clearance above my head which should be plenty of room.
http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/...psuvlpuzxu.jpg

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/...psqm1nlrsm.jpg

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/...psar1c6uud.jpg

Wicked
 

Love this thing, especially the recaros

Nice work. Tell me more about them there Recaros , would ya. Thanks

I got the seats from a Saturn ion redline. They should be tha same as the chevy cobalt ss seats. I really like them and they fit me well. They are taller than regular recaros and are not a good fit for most muscle cars.

Thanks. They seem to fit the bird well. They also look like they are manual or mostly manual seats. Are they?

They are all manual and fold forward nicely to get to the back seat. I am glad they look to fit well. I had to cut up and modify the back seats to get them to fit. I also had to cut off all of the brackets from the front seats. I extended the sliders and bolted them directly to the floor braces in order to get rhem as low as possible.

I like the Recaros. I looked at them as an option, but was curious about the baseplate/sliders. I am 6'4" and they look like the sit really high. I may try to buy the rear seats and a more classic Recaro for the front. These second gen Birds don't have a lot of headroom

I haven't been able to work on the car in a while and probably wont be able to for another couple of weeks. I have to many house and other projects to complete. I will try and go back and document what I did to the car before I started the thread.

The car had very little rust but there were several body panels that needed to be repaired. This car will not be a show car. It wont even get a nice paint job. It is going to be a driver that I don't have to worry about scratching. So instead of buying new body panels to repair the car I practiced my fabricating skills and made my own patch panels.

Both sides of the cowl area had rotted away. there were a few smaller spots like the lower rear quarter. You can see I also deleted the rear side marker lights

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/...pscuyu9md4.jpg

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/...pstuaozfms.jpg


http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/...psywf3ryob.jpg

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/...psyph4agai.jpg


http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/...psfzqw6omt.jpg
http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/...psm8o9euez.jpg

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/...pslkmk6ksq.jpg

The car had also been in a few accidents. The entire left side of the car had been damaged. Since I don't care about straight panels and paint I decided to patch and repair what I had. While I was at it I decided to widen the rear flares slightly.


http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/...psmgdx5teg.jpg


http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/...pskrygzz2l.jpg

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/...psm5go0nyd.jpg

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/...psypjjp1p6.jpg




http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/...pswmuqarej.jpg

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/...pspanhixua.jpg

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/...pscnddmeew.jpg

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/...psstao1sxi.jpg

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/...ps7hycahvs.jpg

Very nice and subtle.

I have started to get some stuff done on the car again. I really want to get it done soon so I can enjoy it this summer. I probably wont do anything else to the body or paint until next winter. Im not going to setup the vintage air or a radio. I know the small things always take so long so I am probably being way to optimistic but I would like to take the car to Charlotte for the USCA event.

Good luck! :thumbsup:

My plans changed shortly after my last post. Something else came up during the same week as the charlotte event so I decided to take my time finishing the build.

That turned out to be a good decisions because I ran into some unexpected issues and delays getting some parts. The picture below shows what I am doing now.

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/...psog4yftle.jpg
I removed the engine and am lowering and centering the engine mounts. I also cut out the shock mount and will be welding on a taller adjustable version. I surprisingly did not have clearance issues with my coilovers like others with Scotts subframe.

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/...ps3gv1il4s.jpg

did you try it with the spring?

I did but before I did the alignment. As you can in the picture above, I used my new quick trick gauge. It had around 0* camber and 4*caster. I had used washers to space out the control arms because the did not fit the subframe without them. I had to widen the control arm slots to get them to fit. I will try and align the car again today and get some pictures of the coilover clearance.

I was able to get 1* of camber after grinding the control arm mount but I only can get 4.5* of caster, which actually makes sense. Since I am using a small body mount at the rear of the subframe and a full size mount at the firewall my subframe is angled down. I did the math and it is around 3*. I now have to decide if I want to level out the subframe and lose ground clearance or adjust the control arm mounts to get the car aligned correctly.

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/...psnuybqqyd.jpg
I am disappointed after using the Quick trick alignment tool a couple of times. It does not seem to be very precise and it does not work well with the C5 Z06 wheels.
http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/...ps3gv1il4s.jpg

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/...ps7erkhqzv.jpg
Most of the measurements come from a 90* bracket which is bolted to the tool. The bracket can twist and maybe bend. When I put the digital gauge on the bracket I get .4* camber but if I put vertical on the tool I get 89*. I will try and give them a call today.
To measure the caster you need to be able to turn the wheels 20* both directions. I don't have turn plates so I had to get creative. I clamped a scrap piece of angle iron to the top of the spindle. I then placed a piece of paper with several line at 20*. I turn the wheels until I am parallel with the reference lines. Unfortunately this will only work with the inner fenders off.



http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/...psztxqindj.jpg

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/...psx9cwiiyf.jpg


You can see I have plenty of clearance with the coilovers. I think I have shorter shocks compared to others which helps.

Yep, you have much shorter shocks.

I really want to get the subframe setup and DSE subframe connectors welded in so I can start to do the final assembly. I used a laser level to level out the car on jackstands and started to get some measurements. I have been reading Ron Sutton's suspension threads but I don't want to get carried away. I just want to make sure everything is straight and centered.

I used a plumb bob and marked every reference point I could find on the floor (outside flares, pinch weld, alignment holes, etc) I then measured from these points to mark the center point. I put a chalk line down the center. I should be able to use this to center and square up the front and rear suspension.

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/...psjcehwifi.jpg

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/...psu3mcdecs.jpg

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/...pszeeffh1y.jpg

I haven't made any progress since my last post. The car shifted slightly when I tried to adjust the subframe. The marks on the floor don't line up with the body anymore. I need to redo the process but I decided to take a break and enjoy the summer for a few weeks.

I did get 2 of these from Strange yesterday.
http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/...psdey30y7c.jpg

Im on vacation this week which means I actually have some free time. Unfortunately, I am no where near the car but I will try and post some of my previous progress.

I have never liked how the rear bumper wraps around the qtr panels on the Firebirds so I trimmed mine.

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/...psrdbzhyii.jpg
http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/...psrtfdz3hc.jpg

Its sad to load and look at these pictures. The car looks almost done and they were taken almost a year ago.

I also modified a shallow g8 trans pan to work on the 6l90. http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/...psgsiijuzz.jpghttp://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/...psmmw9jkp0.jpg
http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/...psdqxvyn8k.jpg
http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/...pslefcxadw.jpg
http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/...ps1hykbaqi.jpg

I spent another day trying to square up the rear axle and the front subframe. The rear is in a good spot except the driver side qtr panel is 5/8" wider.

Sadly, I cant get the front subframe where it needs to be. The wheelbase is shorter on the driver side and my cross measurements from corner to corner are longer from front passenger to rear driver side. This tells me I need to move the passenger side back but it seems like I am maxed out.

Im also having trouble believing the measurements since the subframe looks to be angled to much already.

Something is wrong and I am having a lot of trouble pin pointing it. The subframe has its issues but i don't think its that far off. The body has been banged up but it is solid and seems straight.

It is difficult to get good measurements on the car when the tolerances were so bad originally. I have been going off the rear frame, the pinch weld(are they supposed to be parallel?) and the body.

Have you tried mounting your stock subframe ( if you still have it) and seeing what measurements you get from that one?

Unfortunately, I don't have the original subframe anymore. It was one of the only things I was able to sell.

I wish I measured everything before I removed all of the original suspension.

forget about the body.

Setup reference points where the rear LCA's mount, build some bolt in brackets with measure points if you have to. Worry only about the front LCA mounting points measuring correctly to the rear LCA mounts, both straight line and x-measurements. Obviously get your mounting height where you want it on the subframe first.

Maybe I'm not understanding your issue but it sounds like you are trying to align the subframe both with the rear frame and the body. Neither of those matter, you need it straight with the rear suspension mounting points. If after you do that you find the wheels not centered side to side of front to back in the wheel openeings you may need to modify the body openings or something else. But dont' let the original frame or body affect how you measure and bolt up the suspension mounting points. Get that correct and then worry about how it fits the body later. Move the sheetmetal if you have ot.

I found the issue with the subframe allignment. The scott mock subframe is not square. Unfortunately that is not ab easy fix so the project has been put off fir the last month. I finally removed the subframe and called ron sutton to figure out the next steps.

I had actually measured the subframe when others started posting issues but I only checked to see if the bare frame was square. My problem is with the lower control arm mounts which surprises me sinse I looked through all of scotts pictures and saw that th lower control arms were jigged.

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/...psispsl4fp.jpg

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/...psv9afqfhm.jpg


Driver side

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/...pspwft3rwo.jpg

Passenger side
http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/...ps7a2utgzl.jpg

wow there is some fine craftmanship that id want my name attached to. way to go scott mock ....only a 1" plus out over 4.5 feet LMFAO

Looking at your first picture you posted it looks like the lower control arm mount to the right has the control arm mounting point crooked. It looks like it's at a slight slant going through the cross member which would explain why that control arm is lower where you measured. If you look at the picture you can even see that were he triangulated the control arms isn't equal on either side.


Is Ron Sutton able to help you fix the issue? Or do you have to scrap the frame? You could still use most of the parts and buy a bare Art Morrison subframe if funds allow?

hopefully someone can fix that sub-frame with new MUCH stronger lower control arm mounts, they don't instill any confidence by there appearance . my thoughts are there could be some gusset's added,figure with the loads that they would be or could be seeing might cause some deflection

I talked to Ron and feel very confident that he can help me optimize the C6 suspension for my car. Unfortunately he is booked up for the next 3 months which is longer than I can wait.

I am going to modify the subframe to make everything symetrical and stronger. As you noticed, the driver side lower control arm is angled. I will take a lot more measurements to verify everything but i hope the rear driver side lower control arm mount is the main problem. I am also going to relocate the swaybar, it isnt perfectly square and i dont like how the arms align with the lower control mounts. I plan to move it forward an inch on both sides.

Here are the pictures i found of Scotts Jig. The front of the lower control arms jigged but the rear tube is not.
http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/...ssob16ixz.jpeg

http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/...sbefo68tv.jpeg

Hard to believe but its not unheard of for these subframes to be "out" I guess.

See post #2 where they talk about the front subframe. It looks like the same design used by a major manufacturer.

http://www.corner-carvers.com/forums...ad.php?t=48983

2 minutes into the video below he talks about the subframe

https://youtu.be/q6xU4je_XaE

I wish I had found that thread months ago(He doesnt identify the subframe so i couldnt search for it). They had the exact same problems as me. Not enough camber and non symmetrical lower control arm mounts. I could have saved hours of head scratching if i had known what to look for.

I was assuming it was an AME based on the design,but now I see in your jig pictures that your guys' design is similar. The vorschlag car also had a 3 link subframe that looks exactly like and AME as well, so that's what I assumed, although frankly I have a very hard time believing AME would put out something with misaligned brackets. And its suspicious that it had the exact same problem as your sub frame too, at least it sounds like it.

I'm sure you could cut and repair yours if you were an experienced fabricator, but depending on what those things cost it might be best to just get another one. hard to say. Good luck.