I totally agree with everybody --- and that's where this is a good thread. Some guys built budget cars (really? 70 or 90 grand is a budget car). Depends on the base price of the car... and what was done to it - and how much the owner did versus professionally done. Did he buy a nice used 350... and a used 5 speed... and used wheels... and the undercarriage is painted with a rattle can.... factory wiring? Old glass and trim? Original headliner?

My point is -- hell yeah a guy can build an "affordable" car. As long as he thinks 70/80/90 grand is affordable. Fun driver? Sure. Drive it in the rain to the grocery store. You bet. Win a trophy once in awhile... depends on the show / the town / the competition.... but yeah.

Want to build a car like Lou's Change.... all professionally built... best of everything. Bring a truck - make that a Brink's truck.

Then there's everything in between. The builds I've done for myself and my friends/relatives is all me -- except body paint (I can do all the other paintwork)... and CUSTOM interior. I also have a shop that most pros would like to have. What's that cost? I'm not saying. More than a couple cars anyway.... What's my point? My point is that even doing it yourself has costs you never counted on, or added in.... TOOLS... lots of them.... Compressors.... A welder... and even More tools.... Oh! You need a lift? Ka Ching... So let's be real here. Those things all have costs that nobody EVER counted in the build budget.

So let's say you bought a "decent" 68 Camaro.... for 30 grand. The more you do to it - the more you'll want to do to it. Pretty soon it becomes very obvious to you that you're either way over your head.... and you sell it.... or you don't have a clue and you tear it all apart (that's the easiest two days of work you're ever going to do on it).... and that's when it all either comes together or you have a garage you can't use and a car that you paid 30 grand for that's now worth 10.

Here's the bottom line. It was a very good question! One that MANY should have asked a long time ago. But one that has no answer. The build is going to cost what you let it cost. The smart guys know their limits and the limits of their skills.

Depending on the condition of your current car you may be able to make decent money selling it to someone who want to have a builder build a 'supercar' and I think you could find a good solid updated driver for $50-$75K...........that should kick non-tweaked and turbo'd Honda azz.......and it should appreciate unlike a new car. :)

you can do a lot for $75

My attitude on tool spending is that if I can buy the tools to do a job for the same money or less than I would pay someone to do the job then that is what I do. That way the tool is sitting there when I need to get the job done on the next car. My shop is far from your shop Greg but it is now fairly well equipped using this approach.

Don

My thoughts exactly on this subject, I am always looking for a reason to buy tools!

My point on the tool buying wasn't so much that some of us are tool addicts... it was more about the fact that they do have a cost attached to them. Few if any of us add that cost along the way to what we "think" we're willing to spend on a car.

The point was being added to the "home built" argument vs the "pro built" - because home builders are more budget minded... yet may end up spending a few thousand dollars over time NOT on the car but on tools to build the car.

Welcome to the site. We're here to answer your questions, and help you spend your money wisely.*



* ridiculously subjective but if you check with the site first, we should be able to keep you from being too foolish with the money

Yikes. I'm not sure where you interpreted that I called you an idiot :(

The audience I'm referring to are the individuals that are hacks by nature, or who do not have a mechanical/artistic mindset capable of building a quality car. Along with this comes patience, willingness to try things new, time available, etc.

Yep there are a lot of shops out there that aren't qualified either and will steal your money.

As Vince pointed out, just gotta do your homework if you don't have the time/patience etc. to do your own job.

I edited my original post to prevent anyone else from getting offended, my apologies!

-Dale

That's what we're on the forums for. I enjoy helping others solve problems. And heck there's always hundreds of things to learn off here. Nobody is an expert. Unless you're Ron Sutton of course. ;)

But many of us vendors on here are willing to help out on costs with many products to help the budget from overflowing too much. And Don is one of them!

Chewing gum? Gross.

-Dale

Hey now! Don't go dragging me into this! :D

To the op. My advice, clean up your car and dump it. Find some shops here or close to home and start asking questions. Let them know you're a serious buyer and what you're looking for. Flash68's camaro that was purchased for 29k, that's a heck of a buy! Deals are out there and often times are sold without advertising, just word of mouth.
:thumbsup:

And it took him months to sell it... I had found an old cached ad on CL and contacted him... but 2010 the money was not flowing all that well in the economy. No way that car sells for that price in 2015.

But, as you said, deals are still out there... patience and perseverance can typically be rewarded in life. :)

Whatever you think it will cost X2.

Then add 20 percent.

Then add 6-12 months.

Then buy a Corvette?

:lmao:

IF you have any tools and a bunch of talent and time....

Only if it's red. And it's your second one. :sieg:

If your name is Bad Ron, certainly change that to years.

I'll clarify. The 6-12 months is ON TOP OF the expected 2-3 years. Per builder. Per car version. Per fill in the blank. And so on.

So basically you're back to 6-12 years. :lmao:

It was my Nicorette gum. :D

It's a ChassisWorks G-Link with 10/200 coils.

Holy crap dude. Why don't you just move in to my house? That way you'll get real time updates and not have to rely on other people. Plus I'll give Suzie and G2 visiting privileges. It'll also speed up your LatG updates :lol:

Love you Bro :cheers:

The correct answer is --- it will cost way more than you planned -- and take years not months to construct.


LOL -- Dead serious.

I can attest to the decade + time frame. My project started out in 2003 as a t56 swap, then got caught up in a death spiral of "since I'm in there I might as well" combined with life. I might be able to finish the wiring and plumbing this summer, but probably not.

C6 Z06 Corvettes are going for less than the $75k of your budget. Its the benchmark for most pro-touring builds. Personally, I think I'd have more fun with one. You might want to consider going that way, and just restore the 68.

Nah. Norcal > Socal. :stirthepot: :D

And who are these "other people"? I'd like to meet them. :tv_happy:

Did you think you were the only one around here who is also a member of the Corvette Forum? :bitchslap: :lmao:

Yep!

Okay so here is my thoughts.

You have the 68 Camaro - Great

First mod I would do that would give you greatest impact is Brakes, Wheels, Tires & Suspension. Personally I would skip the mini-tubs and do a square set up on the car with 275'w all the way around (bigger isn't always better) .

Chassis

Suspension - look at DSE because it's the best bang for the buck as you can keep the factory leaf springs and lower the car 2" or 3" with a 1" lower block. The offer a very nice bolt on front suspension and once again you can do it in your driveway and not take the car out of service.

Brakes - call Tobin at Kore3 as you get get a complete brake package for under 2 grand and then call DSE for the bolt in Corvette Brake Booster and then you have a no fuss brake set up that is designed to work together.

Wheels - Look at a forged wheel vs a billet wheel as once again they are 1/3 the price and you can get a nice deal on a 18 x 8 & 18 x 9 set up.

Tire - Tire Rack & Discount tires are your friends and it’s easy to shop the size you want and save some money.

Ps the stock 10 bolt is plenty strong enough for 99% out there. Don’t get sucked in the fact that you need a 9” rear differential.

Interior

Next modification I would do is the interior which you can also do in a weekend if you know where to look.

TMI Interiors - sells do it yourself interiors that are very nice and fairly inexpensive. They have more fabric and material options then you can shake a stick at.

Sound Deadening – While you are swapping out the carpet, door panels & head liner install some DEI sound deadening to reduce the road noise. It makes a huge difference and it helps to make you feel like your in a much safer car.

Saftey. – Put in some 3 Point seat belts as they may just save your life.

Dash Cluster - swap out the Guages to give it a nice updated look.

Intermittent Wipers – If you plan to drive the car this is a worthwhile upgrade

Electical

Honestly the car is 40 plus years old and it may be time to yank that old crap out and install some new stuff. If you are not comfortable doing it then hire the right guy.

American Auto Wire – great guys and they kits are very self-explanatory.


Engine Bay

If your good with that factory small block wow are you going to save some money here. Do you really need an LS motor to look cool. If you do I will add a sub section.

Firewall – Cosmetic Upgrades
Firewall – Clean it up and wrap the wire in a Black Nomex wire wrap, Scrap all of that black plastic crap and don’t hang **** on the firewall (msd box) like they did in the 70’s.
Wiper Motor – Buy the DSE unit it looks and works great.
Brake Booster – You already bought and installed this with your new brakes.
Battery – Replace the Batter with an Optima and buy the Rad Rides remote shut off kit

Inside of the Fenders – Tape them off and touch them up
Inner Fenders – Yank them out and paint them.
Fender Brace – Upgrade them it looks like you actually like your car’s engine bay
Hood Hinges – Billet one’s give big impact and look great (finish should match the fender braces)
Underside of Hood – Steam Pipe wrap the underside of the hood’s opening’s (nice detail)


Actual Engine – Stock Motor - remember this is not your daily driver !!
Valve Covers & Air Cleaners – Machined finished is cheap and give a great look.
Heads – leave them bare Aluminum so people can see you upgraded them.
Headers – Stainless Steel Headers are great but don’t buy long tubes as they hang to low
Timing Chain Cover – Dear God don’t buy a chrome POS but a nice billet one.
Front Drive – Billet Specialties & Vintage Air make beautiful setups and then you get air
Plug Wires – Use bright colors as it attracts the eye
Plug Wire Boots – DEI makes High Temp boots in various colors to increase the impact.


Not sure if you’ve noticed but you have yet to disassemble the car and prevent it from going back together in more than a couple day’s which is the way you should build your first car or any car that is on a budget. What is great is you can take your car to the local cruise night you can show people what you’ve done. And if something happens you can sell the car as a driver and get a good chunk of your money back if you ever have to.


Paint & Body - if it's a 10 footer leave it alone
State your goal with the paint in advance. Do you really need a perfectly gapped car (5 to 10 grand) if you don’t then do yourself and don’t go crazy. Have an experience body shop do a nice paint job and put a set of stripes on the car and accent the car with small details. Look at Steilow last car Hellfire and it has insane Red paint and is accented with Carbon Fiber. The trim is also has a silver /gray finish that really increases the impact of the car.

Details
Engine Bay – should be all black why because every color goes with a black engine bay.

Color – Pick your favorite color and Paint it

Stripe – Put whatever stripe you want on the car and if you want to save money do it with a wrap. Why because if you get bored just peel it off and have a new one put down for a couple hundred dollars.

Accents – Front Spoiler, Mirrors and rear Spoiler paint them black or if you have the budget buy Carbon Fibers ones.

Wheels – Hopefully you picked a wheel that looks good with the color that your car is now painted. If not ship them to the Powder coater and change the color.

.... And this is how you build a car on a budget and have a car that you can be driving while you modify it.

added this to my post because it needed to be added

I've done it both ways build vs bought. It's way cheaper to buy a finished car and update/repair what you don't like. The disclaimer is you have to look the car over well or pay an inspector to do so if you don't have the knowledge to do so. I bought this car off of this site for $75K https://lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=36673 although it wasn't without some problems none of them were what I would consider major. I've probably put another 7-8K into it but a lot of that has been updating it to be able to withstand the abuse my wife subjects it to while racing it. She beats it like a rental car! :confused59: :drive:

^ That was a good buy Tim. Nice example.

Marty, thanks for the detailed post.
There is a LOT of good information in this thread.

I am an average Joe way out of my league on this site. I scratch and claw to have something nice.
One thing to remember, is no matter how much money you throw at something, someone else is going to have something nicer anyway. Build a car to satisfy what YOU want. Be realistic on what you'll be happy with driving.
Clean the car up REALLY nice. Fit and finish is the most important quality of a car regardless if the parts are stock or custom - that will keep you busy for a while, and cost you plenty of money. You can always go back and add performance components a little at a time. Besides, the bolts will always come back out more easily the second time anyway. Don't just blow your whole car apart and sit there for 3 years waiting for money.
I just traded a custom Hotrod I built from scratch on a very modest survivor Z28 with mild performance upgrades for handling, maybe about $20k worth. ZZ4 crate, 200r4 trans, Hotchkiss kit, Wilwood brakes, poly bushings on everything. The car handles great for what I want to do with it, I love the car, and I know better than to get obsessed with pouring out the money and making it better than the next guy's.
There's nothing wrong with observing those "target cars" for examples, but don't bite off more than you can chew.:snapout:
http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/b...pshcookq7v.jpg
http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/b...psuzia1xlu.jpg

Dirtmod - I went back to my post and added your comments below to my post. I hope it's okay.

I appreciate it, actually. I've always been a big believer in driving a car no matter what stage it's in, but I'm sort of low-class anyway, lol.

WOW a lot of GREAT INFO in this thread, I to am an average joe as well and I have purchased some tools to do the work myself because I want to teach myself or just get an experience using the tools I have in my garage!

Although it might not hold a candle to some of the cars that are built on this site...at least I can say "hey I did all of that by myself". Like another poster said "it may not stain a SEMA carpet" but I am building it to suit MY needs as a nice driver and a cool car.

Marty that was a great write up !!!!!

I have one more thing I'd like to suggest. If you hear of a local stock car swap meet happening in your area, go to it and browse around. You can buy some useful second hand stuff pretty cheap. Anything to fuel delivery components, to suspension components, to performance power steering pump stuff, to dress up stuff that has some quality. Even if you can't find direct bolt-on stuff you can use, you might find some good material to make what you need.
I just went to one a few weeks ago. I didn't really need any suspension stuff, but I did find a nice set of aluminum valve covers I bought from a guy for $40, and a spun aluminum air cleaner with a drop base and a K&N filer for $30. The stuff cleaned up real nice.
I think I'll take Marty's advise about the Nomex wire wrap.
.
http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/b...psdnuocj4k.jpg

Thanks Guys.

I've wanted to put pen to paper a long time ago and this thread gave me the kick in the pants to start writing.

ps - more to come over the weekend.

Marty, Thank you for putting this together. Well done. You said it just right,with lots of good and "real" info. I think I may print this out and hang it in the garage as a reminder:D
It can be very easy to get over your head, and you won't even see it coming. I say the reason I have had my Chevelle for over 2 decades now is because it was torn down for most of the time.:confused18: I wanted it a certain way and got it there. Now it is like Jim Ring told me "you went too far, it's too nice". But it is what I wanted. Not saying I won't do another one that way, but I think I will build the next one that can be used a little more with out worry.
To the OP, you can have your car done by someone and keep in somewhat of your budget. If your price is firm, I would scale it back and allow for incidentals. because well... !#$* happens. You can also look on here and find a car that is just what you looking for and in a price range that works, and maybe even afford to change a few things to your liking.
Good luck and have fun with what ever choice you choose.

Your welcome and I agree the same thing happened to me with the truck. It turned out so nice I was afraid to drive it. Thus the reason we built the 70 Camaro. Much more toned down of a build and something that I can play with for years. Heck I even have a Scott Mock chassis sitting in my warehouse that I plan to bring home this weekend and start putting it together. I may even smooth all of the C6 suspension parts similar to what Al's kids have done with there 5th gen Camaro. The cool part is the car can constantly evolve and I am sure at some point it will be way to nice to drive and then I will sell it and start another project.

But for now I want something nice looking and fun to drive. People forget that perfect cars are exactly that and when you get a nick or scratch your heart broken.

This thread should be stickied as "Must read" right after the forum rules when someone signs up for Lat-G

There is a lot of REALITY in this thread that most of us just glaze over when talking about our projects and ordering our parts. For you new guys... listen to the voice of reason from the guys that have been around because its true. This cycle repeats itself again and again. Everyone wants to build Troy or Stielow, or DSE's latest car in their garage but the reality is there are are thousands of hours and hundreds of thousands of dollars in these builds. They are beautiful, they build excitement for our industry but in reality they are out of reach of 99% of us as they should be. We all need something to aspire to.

I've built building professionally for going on 8 years now on my own (20+in the biz). I am very blessed to have a clientele that can afford to indulge this hobby and I get to build people's dream cars. I've learned over the years when I get a cold call about someone shopping to build a project and in the first 5 minutes they tell me they want the "biggest, baddest, fastest, and money is no object" that we will never build a car. Once we start talking about the sheer "cubic dollars" of what it costs to build a car like they are asking for the pauses in the conversation start getting longer.

I try to lead the next part of the conversation back around to... "What do you want to do with the car?" Most of the time their response is... I just want something cool to drive. So then we start building realistic expectations, and honestly for someone who wants to build a driver on a "budget" (see previous comments... i.e. under $100k) it is cheaper to find a nice $30k car that someone else has mildly built and/or restored and modify from there with your end goal in mind. This brings up the next point that a couple guys mentioned.... there is a lot of junk out there so no matter what you buy you need to have it professionally inspected or at least bring your buddy that knows how cars are built to look for the metal tape, bondo, self tapping screws, and scotch locks. If nothing else, knowing the true condition of a vehicle becomes a negotiation point... Maybe the guy knows he got shafted when he paid someone to build the car for him and is asking top dollar but when you confront him with the reality of the car he may want to wash his hands of it for a reasonable price... main point is... Know what you are buying. These cars offer enough surprises as it is- you don't want to buy one with extra. If you can buy a car that doesn't have to go into a body shop then you will save a lot of time and money. Once you get into the paint and body on a car you either go all the way or not at all. It is expensive and you can't just say.. Oh I'll come back and fix that later. Expect to pay $30k+ to strip, typical rust repair for a 40yr old car, prime, block paint for the current acceptable level of "pro-touring" quality paint job when you are paying a body shop. Last two cars I had paint work redone on had 600 hrs in stripping, sheet metal work, redoing bodywork and painting... do the math on that at 65/hr for paint work.

Once you have your main goal in mind start building your project from there. As forementioned... sure a Roadster Shop chassis is bad ass thing to have... but do you really need it if you are on a budget and just want to do car cruises? I seem to remember some great car cruises back before we had all of these options.

If you are on a budget and really want to have all those trick features... build yourself a staged build plan. Get a running driving car now and enjoy it. Make your self a 1yr, 3yr, 5 yr plan for mods you want to do and start saving your pennies. Get your wife on board or those pennies will go towards a European vacation instead of Detroit Speed but that is another conversation. Too many people scatter their cars with high hopes of building the next great car and end up selling a basket case 10 years later. If you don't have the time or financial means to keep your project moving at a steady pace then do it in stages and keep the car functional. You will enjoy it much more, your wife will enjoy it much more, your kids won't be sword fighting in the yard with your door lock rods and you won't get burned out on your project.

If you have the means to pay someone to build your car professionally then shop around. As the guys mentioned there are a wide variety of door rates and cheaper doesn't always mean better, neither does more expensive. Shop on value not on price. Go see their work in person, at their shop. Talk to past customers if you can. Anybody can make a shiny car, but you want to see what is behind the PPG. How do they wire it? How do they plumb it? What is the quality of their assembly where you can't see it at a carshow? Is it built serviceable where it can be dismantled like an OE car if anything ever needed to? What abilities does the shop have? Metal shaping, fabrication, TIG, MIG? What are they doing in house vs. outsourcing? If they have to drive to their buddies shop to use the lathe, that is likely time you are paying for. Is their shop clean and organized? Do they itemize their billing so you know exactly what you are paying for? Bring along a friend or hire a professional that knows the business to come to the shop with you and critique what is going on. It might be a few hundred bucks spent up front that might save you tens of thousands in the back end.

You want custom metal shaping on your car? Smoothed engine firewall, aprons, rad support finish panels like those big builds? Maybe a custom floorpan for your modern trans? Wheel tubbing? Cubic hours again... and finding people to do quality metal shaping work is hard to find. It is becoming a standard of any quality build so a lot more people are learning the art but it is cubic hours on our end to learn it to be able to offer it.. not to mention tens of thousands in metal shaping equipment.

I could go on and on as you guys know... Main thing... Set your goals. Get professional advice if you have questions. Build a plan and stick to it. Drive as much as you can.

We all do it or something close to it. I look at that car of mine now and am glad I did it, and try to tell myself "its just a car" it can be fixed.... We will see. I am enjoying the shows at the moment. With little ones it is hard to get to them, let alone other events. Where we live doesn't help either. Plus they don't give you points for nicks and scratches. At least is is doing the same thing as before, just prettier to look at!
Now our goal is to get some media exposure on the car and scratch that off the list. Don't know if we will sell it soon and try a different avenue or not. It is hard to improve on this one since it has had everything done to it.
I like your camaro, and the way your going about it. Your truck was over the top but was fun to watch come together.

This hobby IS a blast.... and can be done on whatever level a guy can afford to do it on. I've never met anyone and judged them on how their car was obtained except that I won't bother with people that obviously don't care. By that I mean the guys that have plug wires looped around the shock tower. I costs nothing to clean up and route a set of plug wires. If you go to a show and raise your hood to show you don't care... then we probably don't have much in common.

To the OP.....


What you'll find is that this is a hobby. It's the best group of people and you can have fun at any level. I completely agree with those that say you can do this at all manor of dollars. All manor of time and everywhere in between. Just don't think you're going to build or drive a SEMA show car and you'll be just fine.

I'd suggest taking your time to buy a done car -- make sure you like the color first... don't buy a yellow car and want a black car. That will save you a lot down the road. But as many have stated here don't just look at the paint. Also don't be fooled by the killer list of parts. Great parts installed poorly are the most costly! That's a costly re-do. I'd rather have a factory leaf spring car that someone hasn't butchered.

Think about your time - You can take the time UPFRONT and wait and shop and get the best car you can for your money.....The shopping process alone will teach you a ton! The longer you shop the more you'll learn. Or you can jump in and buy some POS and spend the time on the back end waiting to drive it. Your call.

Many of us on here enjoy the journey in many different ways. Some have the money - some have the skills - some of us have built dozens of cars - some are first timers... some are over their heads and some aren't anywhere near what they could afford to spend. Doesn't matter. Do what's right for your personal situation. If you love this stuff - then this won't be your first or last car. You'll live and learn - you'll make mistakes - you'll survive and do it all over again. You'll meet life long friends and make lifetime memories.

If it hasn't been mentioned already:

If you plan to do a lot of your own work, make sure you really enjoy the process of building a car. For me I think I enjoy building more than driving/car shows etc.. I'm OK with it taking years to finish the build because that's the part I like the most. I've sold more than a couple cars shortly after "finishing" them because I got bored.

If you don't enjoy the building process, seriously think about buying a finished car so you can be enjoying it. Whether you do the work or farm it out 3+ years is a long time to have a massive chunk of money out on a car you cannot "enjoy".

I think it was said before, but the hidden cost of tools to do the work is substantial. I can do everything but paint and I estimate I have $35K in tools and machinery to do all that and I still can't build a car on the level some of these guys talk about.