IMO, this whole discussion is mute, you're either a car person or you're not regardless of who built your ride. That said, I find it interesting how often I get ask by strangers if I built my car myself. My standard response is "Does it matter?"

I'm a garage builder and completely agree with the above, nicely put

That's a destructive way to look at life. Plus if you pay someone and you did your homework failure should not be an option.

:cheers:

^^Truth^^

I build as much of the car as I can and tell myself not to be scared to spend the smart money on the places that it needs to be spent on.If it's lack of tools or skill,I want to make sure the end result is what I want not ,well that's the best I could do.If There was no place for the enthusiast who buys what they like for a car then I would have never been able to build a third or fourth project.As for a car built in a shop by pros, they should be able to help the owner in decisions with what works well in regards with what he intends to use his car for and that can save you a lot of heartache and money in the long run.You don't have to be able to tell me about all the nuts and bolts of your car to have me appreciate the fact we're both out at the same place at the same time enjoying life.Sorry about being so long winded but with this subject ,one needs the other.

Who the hell am I to judge somebody else because they don't see things from the same perspective as me? Maybe they adopted 4 kids, take care of their parents, volunteer for charities and don't have time to build a car. My opinion, being consumed by judging others is toxic. (I know this from experience)

^^ isn't that being judgmental? :headscratch:

No -- It's just his OPINION.... Opinions aren't the same as being judgmental.. Judgmental is saying so and so is an idiot for doing such and such... and you won't ever see much of that kind of stuff going on here at Lat G.... well.... unless it's friends giving each other a hard time. Such as my posted response to Paul (RustedUPAutomatic -- LOL)

I just figured out how to make Greg Weld provide a partial autobiography in less than 60 words. Judge that!

Seriously, can't we just simplify here? We all at least begin with a car somebody else built, unless you're Ron$5000.00Mustang, in which case you actually did build everything. I'd love to have Ron's skills in car building, but I never will--that's cool. Ron is a hotrodgod--be it adjudged.

Let's challenge the robots that assembled the Honda my wife drives to work every day! They don't even get paid!

Well damn, I thought it was only the ladies that thought I was a God. LOL:lmao:

Been building cars like most of us here, since I was 16. Have enjoyed most of the builds, and kind of back off when it ceases to be fun. Some days I
wish I'd taken up golf, but I'll have to settle for being a massive stud, and hobby car builder.LOL

Being a tinker-er, or one that partakes in "tinkering", I enjoy/respect/like seeing the ingenuity involved in do-it-yourself garage-type builds.

When I was a kid, I got into paintball pretty hardcore. But I was poor. My friends were poor. We had poor-people equipment. Brass Eagle plastic cheap inefficient markers were our standard, with run-of-the-mill base model Spyders or Tippmanns being our "nice" markers.

For anyone who doesn't paintball, base model Spyders and Tippmanns are field rental markers, they aren't good at anything except not breaking. Reliability being their only strong point, they waste gas, chop paint, are inaccurate and inconsistent.

Anyways, I joined a forum dedicated to Brass Eagle enthusiasts, back when the internet was born (in an age of dot-matrix printers and floppy disks and aol). I learned to dremel the everlasting p!ss out of my plastic markers, modifying cheap and generic markers with ace hardware parts and hose clamps and 2-ton epoxy.

I made my all $30 plastic mechanical semi-auto StingrayII outclass electro-pneumatic billet aluminum E-grip fully automatic $1400 Angels.

And you are d@mn right that I was d@mn proud knowing that I built my marker at 4am with a dremel and some JB weld.

All that being said, I think built not bought is a race track thing, not a car show thing. Beating the latest and greatest BMW or Porsche in a POS F-body that you built with your dad or son or friends in your garage for a fraction of what said BMW/Porsche costs is something to be proud of.

At a car show, if it looks nice, it doesn't matter who or how it was built. But car shows don't matter. The race track, or more specifically the results from the race track, are what matters. Oh, and if you're having fun, and all that hippie jazz about butterflies and bunnies and enjoying life, or whatever.

Built not bought
 

I feel that if you spend the time to build it you know
what your really have.. I don't know how many times
someone says it has this much hp etc but could not
tell you any of the parts inside....I have let my cars
slowly change so I can keep driving them.. it also lets
me know what works and what does not

Even when I have people over helping I have a
hard time not doing it all myself.. my buddies say
I need to go to a meeting:)

That being said I don't weld yet or do any paint work
Just not there yet.. maybe some day
I do respect someone that has them built but spends
a lot of time with the planning and build... I just have
an issue with checkbook no nothings... but that's just me

Bob

Bob, I think that "meeting" takes place at the racetrack.

I'm on the verge of completely starting over again on the Falcon. The Falcon basically exists for the purchase of my first welder (about four years ago)--which has gone okay for the most part, but not without a ton of frustration. I'd wanted to try welding for about 15 years or so before I did. Just trying provided a huge sense of freedom in doing the hotrod thing (as do YouTube videos).

Part of the Falcon's impending clean slate (90% sure it's happening) will include finally buying a good welder, instead of the Eastwood P.O.S. MIG I've been futzing (learning) with for the last few years. I guess I'm into process...

That said, I'll never make anything as nice as your Pantera. I just carry too much dirt around...

Part of it is, I don't trust people. So I like to do things myself. That way I know the quality of assembly, the parts used, the fit and finish of the finished product is my success or failure, and its degree of success or failure is my fault and mine alone.

However, there are things I just cannot do as well as the people who do just that. Porting heads, for example. I don't have a problem taking the dremel to a set of factory heads, just to clean up ports or do some gasket matching... but I'm not going to try my hand at "touching up" some AFR's or Trick Flows. Plus, me not knowing what I am doing, and not being in a position in my life that I could equip myself with the proper tools to test if what I am doing is actually beneficial, I would probably do more harm than good.

But I am not afraid to build my own frame or wiring harness. Body work and sheetmetal aren't my strong point, but I will try to do it myself when I get to that point. If I mess it up, whatever, it's just metal, it can be fixed or replaced by someone better than me.

Suspension design is something that I am going to leave to the professionals who excell in that field... and by "the professionals" I of course mean THE professional who excels in that field, Mr. Ron Sutton. I like to go fast, and if I try design my own suspension and don't get it right, I have created an unnecessary dangerous situation for everybody around me, and that's not something that I am willing to do.

:lmao:

Build or bought
 

Rustomatic I am going to go down
that welding path soon. I agree that doing
it yourself gives you a sense of satisfaction
and also freedom. I also have the trust issue but
cannot do some things that well I never did
brakes until recently ( figured that was a safety
thing I did not want to screw up).
Messed that up before thunderhill but fixed it later

Pantera was way over board but I still beat on it
Firebird was a rust bucket that I brought back to life
and a car I will never sell. I have to work on it more
to try to get it like the Pantera but that challenge
is what makes it fun

Bob

The Firebird I have now, I have bought "finished" or should I say driveable. There was and still is a ton of stuff to either redo, fix or change out... Some of it because of poor solutions.. But I knew that when I bought it, it was a good buy, even though the lists grows everytime I use or wrench on it..

But because most of the "big stuff" is done, or atleast bought and mounted by the previous owner, I still dont have the feel that this is "my car" since I have not done it myself, I am more or less stuck sorting it out, and fixing the errors, not buidling it.

It lacks a bit of that personal feeling,
for the moment it is "just a car" not "my car".

Bought or built
 

I had a mustang for a while that was done
Or I thought. I tweaked a few things but I
also felt like it was not really my car

I have had my firebird for over 27 years now
and it is truly my car even more so than my Pantera
I am changing some things on it now for the second
or even the third time. My old trusty 4 row radiator
is finally getting replaced with a new alum 2 row and a
pair of sucker fans. It has served me well but it is old
and tired and cannot keep up with the new high hp Motor

Bob

I'm with David. I'll attempt most anything but leave the safety sensitive items to the pro's.

I find some crap isn't always worth the time and effort, but I prefer to have it done the exact way I want it. I can find and fix other issues that could be near by. I can pin point every rattle squeak and tap because I've been there... top to bottom.

It was a pretty easy decision for me. I have the capability to do a bolt on car. My build goals are beyond that of a bolt on car, so I was going to have to send it to somebody anyway. The other side of it is, I work 60-80 hours consistently and have two young kids and a wife that I adore. I can't justify spending any more time away from them than I already do. We have all had the phone call from a child that is asking when their dad is coming home that day. So, that entered into my decision making process and once I started writing the check and seeing how much faster it is going in the builders hands, it validated my decision. I, in turn, invest that time I would have spent in the shop in being with my family.

You also have to look at the value of your time. I can make more doing my chosen vocation than it costs me per hour of work at the shop I chose. Any extra shifts I pull pay for parts and shop time at a faster clip than if I was out there turning the wrenches myself.

As far as involvement in the build, I visit the car/shop between once and twice a month. Sometimes to see the car, others just to catch up or have a planning session. My builder and I text back and forth weekly just to keep up on where we are and what is coming next. For the most part, the builder lets me make the call unless I am going the wrong direction and then I lean back on his expertise. I picked the motor, the suspension, the transmission, the wheels, the tires, the seats, etc.

So, I will have a "bought" car, but it will be more in line with what I wanted in the first place and I will have been very involved in the process of building it. One day, I will probably do a bolt-ons C10 or some other car with paint and body already done. I guess that one will be "built." There are a number of other cars I would like to do down the road and I want to add to my skillset and learn how to MIG and TIG, assemble my own engine, and maybe even learn to do a little paint and body, but for me to haver undertaken all of that in one build would have made it a ten year project.

I believe it was Voltaire who said we must first define our terms. And given that the statement in question is a qualitative, not quantitative, it's entirely based in opinion, and everyone has a different idea of what qualities as "built" and "bought". The whole discussion is null and void without a common or agreed upon set of conditions.

That being said, I still believe that it is a matter of how much you know. Someone brought it up that you're either a car guy, or you're not... if it has to be explained, then you're probably not.

Even the most glorious, elaborate builds are based on a car body/frame that a factory built and "builder" bought. Nobody casts their own blocks or forges their own cranks, so the whole argument is pointless.

What it comes down to is how much YOU know about YOUR car.

I don't have the ability to build a "high quality" car so I hire other people to build it for me. I do know every single piece on my car though and I have some mechanical ability but as far as replacing metal and doing bodywork that is not something I can nor would I attempt doing. Leave that to the pros.

In our local Firebird group, there are 2 types of owners. The ones that do not how to wrench on cars nor have the time, but have the resources to have it done. The 2nd group of owners are the ones that like to tinker/work on their cars; either they want to or don't have the resources to hire someone else to do the work. At the end, we all share the same passion-classic cars and that's all that matters, regardless whether it's built or bought.

And then there's the 3rd group, the ones that says "I spent so and so much $$$ on my ride, and therefore it's better than yours". Those don't belong to our group.

Right on Tu :cheers:

Bought or built
 

My Pantera group has tech sessions
where we get together and help the ones that
have not turned a wrench. We make them get
in there and do some of the work. It also helps
us with a pool of knowledge on things that are
unique to our cars. Of course Detomaso never let
anything go to waste so some cars have old and
New designs on them

Good bonding for all of us and a great way to
get more of these cars on the road where they belong

Bob

I am in full support of people loving their car. If it means that the one you love and dream of is for sale, by all means go for your dream.

I am also for the "built not bought" side as well because it is going to keep builders and fabricators like me in business for a long time. Car building is becoming a dying art as the generations get older. Outside of work I know very few young guys that are in to cars for any more than a method to get to work. I am only 28 and I see this. It saddens and baffles me because I can't even imagine how that is a mindset.

With that being said, Car guys are my favorite kind of people and if you buy or build I can stand with any of you and be proud to be apart of such a great industry and hobby with such great people from all areas of the spectrum. I will always support building but there are plenty of cars that I would just buy. My ultimate dream car is a bone stock 69 mach1 428CJ or Boss 429 mustang. If I ever could I would just buy it.

http://i.imgur.com/JLLydit.jpg

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/52960445.jpg

Nice Donny, LOL

Bryce you are not kidding. I've been looking for a fabricator for a long time. Seasoned, entry level what ever. There is no one to be found in my area. All the good guys are 40+ and want a lot of $$$. The young guys wanna learn then go to higher paying shops. I remember when I was 16...willing to sweep floors and clean toilets to work at a muscle car modification shop.

You're still doing that aren't you??

:popcorn2: :popcorn2: :popcorn2:

more than you think....and still enjoy it. :relax:

I'd work for free to learn from you.

I don't care if they bought it or built it, I'm just a jealous hater cuz it's not mine. :guns: Especially if they got it through "Overhaulin". :)

Got me why this old topic came up in the recent Lateral-g newsletter . . . but it seems to be frowning as much on the "built" side as much as it's claiming the builders are doing to the buyers. I haven't read this whole thread, but at least initially . . . "pot, meet kettle".

As a DIY'er about lots of things (not just the automotive stuff), I think the folks who aren't involved at all in the physical parts of the build are missing out. For example - when you're all done with your engine assembly (major machining is past my depth) and you're standing on that "thrill of victory/agony of defeat" moment as you turn the key to crank that engine for the first time, it's different when it's your own work that's on the line. Even more so when it's not your day job to do that sort of thing.

There's satisfaction to be had from figuring out how to make something fit, overcoming other little snags, or doing something unusual or unique that in the end, works. That's a kind of satisfaction that a 'buyer' isn't going to have (and may not even truly understand).


Norm

well said. We love to tinker.

i agree but i think its more a problem when others rub the fact that some one bought and didn't build thing that's going on.

I guess I interpret the phrase a bit differently than some of the others who have responded here, but I don't think there is any malice in the phrase (despite the fact that some use it to belittle others who did pay for their car to be built by a shop).
It seems the popular opinion here is that it's a phrase primarily used to shame those who buy their cars already built or have a shop do the work for them.

And I don't really think that's the case, I think it is instead just a sign of people having pride in their own work (even if that only involves assembling parts from a catalog).
I would agree that it's a silly phrase when it's being used by a guy who thinks his car is "built" when all he did was swap out an air intake and put on some new wheels.

But there are many people here who extensively plan out their own build, learn to weld, do their own bodywork and paint, and more. I'm sure some will disagree, but to me that is a great personal accomplishment that's not quite achieved when someone else is doing it for you.

The newsletter article however asks an interesting question. Is built running the hobby. The key part to that question is the use of the term hobby.

I haven't seen anyone define the term.

If your hobby is driving the wheels off a car then your hobby does not really factor how the car got created (built or bought).
If your hobby is fabrication, construction, engineering etc then you are likely a builder. I've seen guys on here who build then sell and put less than 100 miles on a car they've built. Clearly for them building is the hobby.

The article and this thread are intentionally provocative and completely subjective.

Everyone's hobby (by their own definition) is different and it's place in their personal priorities is different.

We may as well argue over which are the hottest women, redheads, blondes or brunettes.

Blondes!...er Red...er Brunettes...oh fu#@!!!

.
 

I read the article and figured most normal people do both out of necessity.

I can't believe this thread is still going on!!:catfight: :BlahBlah: