Hey Rodger,

I somehow missed the middle of that thread where you posted the chassis pics. I try to read all the posts each day - looking good as usual dude ! You guys make it look sooo easy. Now that I'm neck deep in it - it's certainly not that easy .... Have alot of appreciation for the metal shapers doing this work. Wish I has a plasma cause nibblers, saws-all, and wiz-wheels suck - but I'll get it done. Keep posting the z06 progress ! I'll be watching.

Jim

Tonights progress - Part 1,

Installed some bracing to hold up the rear end while I cut away the frame structure - found it FULL of sand from sand blasting that had migrated in through the bolt holes and drains. Finished cutting out the trunk and rear seat floor.

Progress Part 2,

Set the rear tires in. Set the ride height at F = 5.75 and R = 6.5. I think the rear should go up more - so I can set the pax window ledge level ? (I can lower the rocker panel down easily if needed) Here's everyone's chance to provide feedback.

Any critiques, comments, ideas or guidance from anyone is always appreciated - and I don't take it personal - so feel free to call it like you see it. Thanks !!

Cool. That's going to be one unique ride. :thumbsup:

Are my pic posts too dark ? At home on my LCD monitor they look fine - here at work on a CRT monitor they are way dark. Let me know and I'll change the balance from here forward. Thx

They look fine to me. What a cool car this is gonna be! I've always had a thing for that era of Porsche. They just have a really slick and clean look, great proportions, no nonsense and I certainly can't fault your choice in driveline.

I don't think this car will look right with a lot of rake, every line on it slopes down towards the back. I'd keep the rocker parallel to the ground or slightly up in the back since the sloping bodylines create an optical illusion that the rear is sagging.

I never realized there's a bulge just below the trunk that squares the profile off in the back a little. Is there a functional reason for that...rear engine clearance? I dunno.

I was hoping you'd jump in there Ben, I greatly appreciate your eye toward design, flow and sizes ! Thanks much for the responce.

The bulge is there from the alternator on the back of a flat 4 engine - it sticks way back from the engine. I thought about dropping the bumpers on the car last night before taking picture because the bumpers eliminate the bulge quite a bit from the line when installed. (Check page 1 of the thread for the effect with the bumper installed) I've seen these cars with the bumper removed and you're right - the bulge catches the eye down the back of the car - so I left them on but eliminated the 'bumperettes' (the chrome extensions). I felt the bumpers also added 'weight' to the bottom of the car line making it appear to be lower then it really is - or maybe that's just me.

Thanks again and feel free to provide any comments !

Jim

Looks cool!! I am a Porsche/VW fan too.I have a '66 Cal-Look Bug with nitrous I play with. http://vintagevw.net/images/Img27.gif
If anyone wants to see a cool Vee Dub/Porsche design tool try http://www.busselecta.com/

Hey GTX, I enjoyed the Bug pics. I'm amazed at the engineering and efficiency in those cars - and the company history for Porsche and VW is awesome when you read about it. Thanks much !

Disappointed with my progress this weekend, Didn't get much done ... had to work Saturday. Installed 10 expanding cross braces. 1.5 (14 gage) square outer tube with a 1.25 (11 gage) inner tube. Outer tubes split in the middle - and welded to the chassis at both ends - and welded on either side of the middle split. Installed 4 inside the car (2 floor w 2 roof), 1 in the trunk, 2 in the front, 2 on the bottom at the axel centerlines.

Just some background on the car I thought might be fun to share. 2 owner vehicle and I have all the documentation right down to the oil changes and light bulb replacements - he even measured and recorded the brake pad wear when he replaced them. Attached the original invoice from 65. 2nd owner purchased the car in 1980 for $700 - and sent it in to a 356 shop in Florida for $8500 worth of metal replacement, sand blasting and primer. Shop labor rate was $22/hour - try that one in 2007 dollars ! (Looks pretty rough in the pics) Went into storage in 81 - until 2001 when I bought it.

This week I'll install the stabilizing bracing to tie the top/bottom and front/back of both sides so it won't twist when separated. Then I need to cut out the front suspension, cowl vent, front and rear lock receivers, and the wiper motor mount. Then I can FINALLY split it. Any ideas, guidance or comments you guys have, feel free to pass them along - never split a car before :wow:

Vent and Frnt Susp
 

Made a little progress tonight.

Welded in some more body supports. Removed the cowl vent and the front suspension supports. It's amazing how much sand was trapped inside all the core supports and bracing - and that they didn't power wash the front suspension before or after blasting it. the rest of the car is nice and clean - yet the front suspension box was pretty rusted.

Tomorrow I'll remove the center of the dash (in a inverted V cut from top to bottom so that I can remove the radio/ash tray/lighter section in one piece) the wiper motor support (spot welded), backup light surround, and finish adding the internal cross bracing. My kingdom for a plasma .....

Go COLTS!

man that thing looks sick. i love the stance.

Just my opinion but I like the die grinder when doing precise sheetmetal work like that. When we major sheetmetal work like top chops and sheetmetal fab we use the die grinder for square cuts. The plasma is for cutting out junk and making brackets out of 1/8" or better. Just focua on the quality not that it take 10 days to make all the cuts. Those nice square planned out cuts will pay off in the end when you can cut filler strips on the shear. I even get precise enough to have very thin die grinder blades for certain cuts.


Looks good. Maybe you and John could race your porsche and his nova against each other when done...

Rodger

Rodger

Dash Cut
 

Need to cut the middle of the dash out. The original radio openings in these cars were very small. Plan is to v cut out the dash - then widen the cutout 2 or 3 inches to make room for a current sized radio (CD/DVD/LCD/IPod/Shower Massage ... :P ) and fill up the rest of the space between the gauge and glove box (widening the car 9-10 inches).

Thought about doing an electric flip down front on the radio and use the standard Porsche radio blanking plate, so when the thing is off - it fits the period of the car. Plan for the interior are to keep it looking stock as possible and use the high-end carpets and leather.

Thought about doing 2 interiors - 1 plush touring with the stock seats, the other with the Porsche GT interrior (racing buckets, bolt in roll bar, etc). I have both interiors - - hummmmm....

Dash Cut 2
 

Marked and removed the center of the dash. Removal also provides access to the wiper motor bracket. A few spot welds to drill out - then I can cut the dash top and firewall down to the console structure.

That is way too cool! Tons of talent and creativity going on in that project. Thanks for the pics.

Good job!

Saturday Part 1
 

Removed the wiper mount, backup light surround, and rear view mirror mount base.

Saturday Part 2
 

Made some front and rear paper profile patterns so I can get the same curvature when I put the extra metal in. Then I split the front section (backseat to bumper). Split the rear section (dash top forward to bumper). The only thing left is to split the roof and then the floor - then bottle jack it apart and shore it all up. Might be done by tomorrow nights update....

I better pick up the pace, your getting alot of work done.

Rodger

Great progress. I really like those old porshe bodies...cant go wrong!


Tim

Hah !

I'm just a part-timer. I don't think you guys have a thing to worry about...

Great project!! I'm in favor of leveling the rockers and loosing the bumpers. Also, I'd do a high end interior using leather, but use safe seats as well as a roll bar/cage. This car is at the point of power to weight not to think safety first and include it into the design...but you're a smart guy and have already considered this I'm sure....

My uncle is an aircraft mechanic and pilot too and I can tell you are very similure to him in your approach to doing things...ie, clean and well thought out!! Perhaps it's an industry standard.

Keep the updates/pics coming!!!! :thumbsup:

Thanks for the kind words and guidance Anthony ! I plan to put in all the roll bar reinforcements while I'm doing the body so I can put the cage in. I'd like to do both interriors - 1 stock and 1 GT Porsche style with some type of racing seats. Guess it's about time to make that choice...

You're right about aviation and your dad. It's one thing to work on a car, drive it and then pull over when you forgot to tighten or fill something. Try custom building an aircraft - then strap yourself (or paying passengers or your family) into it and tool around a 10,000 feet. You only get a couple power-off dead-stick landings in a corn field before your luck will run out. It's one of the few things left in our industry we're still very proud of ! Thank your Dad for his guidance too - sounds like it may have rubbed off on you - and thats a good thing !

I spent the morning building a template pattern of the roof before I cut into it. There is no structure to these - it's actually just a stamped piece of metal with formed edges F and R - with a U channel at the windshield surround and door drip channel. My concern was that when I cut into that - it would attempt to return to it's previous flat state - so I built patterns to make a wooden support buck for later.

For the process - see Ron Fornier's site and checkout the Making Patterns and Bucks tape. Basic old school coachbuilding and race car stuff. (If you know Ron's history - he's one of those behind the scene hero guys !)

Grided off the top. Made paper templates to those grids. Then you can transfer that to plywood or MDF - and put it all back together and you have the original profile of the structure. Did the same for the Nose and the Tail.

Anyway, thought the new guys might find it interesting.

I know, Go Cut That Thing .... :)

Cut me Mickey
 

Well that was fun.

Cut the roof, cut the floor - then split the cross tube in the back - and jacked it 8 inches apart to get a C5 torque tube down the middle. Everything stayed in alignment and slid so easy I could have moved it by hand.

Glad I made a profile template - the roof is now flat with no curve. I'm going to put in some support channels when I stitch it back up.

Next, install cross bracing - then mockup the rear suspension, set the trans/diff in and put the torque tube in to see if I widened it enough. Plans are to add a wedge cut into the rear fenders (back all the way up to the door latch) to widen the back of the wheel well 2 inches on each side.

Beer:30 :cheers:

Jim

Centered and aligned the body to the jig. Set the wheel base center lines. Dropped in the rear suspension jig and put on the right side gear. Installed the transaxle and torque tube and centered for a mockup. With the car 9 inches wide - the drive line sets right in there as planned with room available for the chassis backbone around it. I might put in the drivers seat and slides tomorrow to make sure theres enough room. Will need to move the rear wheels in few inches and get shortened half shafts. Next is to cut out the front wheel wells and firewall, drop in the front suspension jig and see where the engine falls.

Saturday Update
 

Removed the front wheel wells, footwells and the trunk floor all the way up to the firewall bottom. Also removed the battery tray and vent in the nose section. Tomorrow I'm hoping to get the front suspension cradle installed and get the front suspension and steering rack in. (I set the cradle in tonight and the end brackets hit the jig leg -have to modify the front ones tomorrow too.... Picked up some 1 3/4 and 1 inch tubing today to mock up the center backbone. Want to make sure I can get a set of 2.5 exhaust in there at the current width - or go another inch wider.

Get in my Belly ...
 

Getting close.

Sunday Update
 

Slow today. Had to modify the front susp cradle to fit over the front jig legs. Couldn't get much room that way - so I repositioned the entire car to compensate. It works - just had to redo all the adjustments again.

Installed the front suspension and rack. Front suspension will need to be pulled inward like the rear to clear the fender lines.

Started measuring the engine for install. Gonna be tight. Need to start looking at headers. If anyone has a suggestion let me know. LS1 and I'm looking for 400 hp. A cam, intake and headers look like that should get me close.

Jim

Wow looks good. Your almost done, just a little welding and wiring.

Rodger

Got Motor ?
 

Snowed in today - so, I installed the motor. Set the engine .5 inch off the back of the rack and centered. Looks like a 3 inch inset replacement firewall will do it. The footwells are looking like a cobra deal though, very tight. Now I can take measurements for shortening the torque tube. Wish I'd done this kinda work years ago - it's a blast !! (but I'm really tired of the rust and green primer)

Wow, That Little Car Is Going To Be Sooooo Sweet, Awesome Work.

Headers
 

The Hooker LS1 Block Huggers worked just right - they look tiny though compared to the monsters you guys run. Just one more compromise in this journey. The pipes should route fine.

Need to replace the batwing pan with a camaro pan so I can run a 2.5 exhaust into the backbone.

The torque tube is out to be shortened at a local IND shop. Shortening it 21 inches total.

This weekend I remove everything - rebuild the suspension jigs so they can be moved inward - and then put it all back together again for the final measurements.

Rear Susp done
 

Removed the rear jig and separated it into 2 parts. Built 2 more supports and reinstalled the rear jig. Moved the wheels/tires in 10 inches total. I can go ahead now and template out the rear suspension frame and get those off to be bent for me.

Taped over the cut to see what it might look like.

Tomorrow I'll remove the engine and front suspension - and do the same to the front jig and reinstall. I'll install the transaxle and wait on the shortened torque tube for the final setup.

Jim

Hey Jim,
The car is looking great!!! Love the rear shot of the car. That is going to look killer from the rear. Just one thing Im spoting.... you may want to widen the track of the wheels and get those out closer to flush with the wheel lip. If thats a problem for the wheel bounce then maybe raise the ride height a little. I dont think it would hurt the looks in order to get those wheels out for the stance to be correct. :thumbsup:


Chris

Wow lookin good. What is your rear track width down to now? At about 56" things get really tight with the diff and the stock lower control arms. You might want to mock up the transaxle before you have any tubes made. It gets really tight back there on the lower control arms. just some info from struggles I have had with this suspension

Let me know when you get to shock mounts I can give you some part numbers to make you life easy if your running Coilovers.

Looking good! can't wait to see how you sort out the front. I hope that's 200 mph duct tape you used for the body work!

Hi guys,

Thanks for the support gents - that's always appreciated and keeps me going !

Chris, Excellent comments. The body profile of these cars is very tear-drop shaped. The track is very wide in the front susp - and pretty small in the rear. The rear wheel well opening changes pretty drastically from front to rear of the opening - something like 2 or 3 inches. It gets very narrow at the back. I attached a pic looking straight up - but it's difficult to see it clearly. So the plan is to add a 2 inch wide pie shaped insert into the fender - pointed end at the door edge, and 2 inches wide back by the tail light. That will flatten the difference and allow me to either run a wider wheel - or move the track out. I agree that the front of the wheel well and all that extra room ruins the appearence. I'm thinking about running the 285's I have in the rear right now - so I'll probably move the track width and raise the entire car an inch and lower the rockers. It's 6.25 in the rear and 5.25 in the front.

Rodger, The current track is 52. If 56 is close to the minimum - I'm gonna be in trouble. I should be able to get close to 54/55. I'll take your advice and drop the transaxle back in and see what happens. Packaging is the tough part of this project. And I haven't even gotten to space needed for a battery, AC, wipers, electrical system, pedals, - oh yeah, seats .... :lol:

Thanks guys !! Time to get back in the shop and cut something.

Brother, I cannot even imagine the packaging issues your gonna deal with. Building Johns nova with a backseat is like 10lbs of crap in 5 lbs bag. Good thing your not trying for a back seat. If you can pull it off you should have a low ride height and great ground clearence. And lots of toe board trans room for gas pedal and feet. That is big issue when I build a car cuz of my size 15s.

What is gonna happen is the front pick up point on the rear a arms will crash into the bottom of the diff. And on yours you should be raising that front point over stock to shorten the instant center of the rear. With as much as you have shortened the drive train, and if you kept the stock instant center geometry, you may have an instant center that is landing in front of the engine or farther forward than is recommended. If i have just confused the heck out of you, PM me and I will I will give you my number to try and explain what is happening and some trade secrets to fix it.

Your car is looking awesome. This is the part I really enjoy, the engineering and making things work. The fab work is easy, making it look good and function is another story.

Rodger

I narrowed my c-5 rear 7in, 3.5 a side ,that brings the lower control arm right to the rear diff on the pass side with about 1/2 in clearance.

pic www.picturetrail.com/55xvette

Front Suspension
 

Thanks to all you guys for your interest, comments and solutions. Any help I get is greatly appreciated - so feel free. Rodger, I'll get you my number - any guidance is welcome sir. Xvette - man I loved your car and all the work !!! I took a ton of pictures - thanks for the inspiration.

Sunday update and here's how it ended up. Moved the rear wheels out 2 more inches. That get's me 54 inches track width - leaving 13 inches between the lower a arms. Outer fender clearance is 4 inches at the leading edge of the tire - and 2 at trailing edge. If I insert the 2 inch wedge - should work. How's that Chris ?? More better I hope. The front and rear inset now match.

Cut and shortened the front jig and reinstalled all the suspension stuff. Track width ended up at 55 leaving room to swing the tires full arch. That left 18 inches between the lower A arms.

Raised the body 1 inch. Back is now 7 and front is now 6. Thinking I should raise it some more - but I've looked at this so much I'm starting to get confussed. I'll keep working on it until I get it just right.

That is one cool looking project. I am a little skeptical about fitting that wide of a track in that car. If you pull them in does it get that look like it will tip over. Kind ok like early Pro Street cars?

What about making a pie shaped cut in the body. You could widen the body a couple of inches at the rear without destroying the shape. You already have some serious compound curves to deal with so a wider at the rear section shouldn't add too much. It could add up to 3-4" to your rear track width. Drop the rockers and maybe even lower the rear pan this way you can lower the suspension mtg points and not have it look jacked up in the rear. You could even lower the w/o an inch again giving you more travel with the lowered look. The sheetmetal will give the illusion of a lowered and tucked suspension.


Finally not a twin turbo Camaro.

The stance is "MONEY". the shop number is 661 399 8999

Rodger