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Charlie, I saw a post on the Facebook with the dates and tracks for next year.
The highlights for the western events... T-Hill, February 27-28 Vegas, April 23-24 COTA, August 6-7 Auto Club Speedway October 8-9 Slap some Camaro sheet metal on one of your nazcars, hang a plate and come play! |
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There were only 128 GTV cars registered all year at the 9 USCA events, and about 30 of those participated in more than one event to try and qualify for the OUSCI event. If the vintage cars want to be represented in greater numbers all they have to do is sign up and accumulate enough points to make the big show, like the EVO guys from RS Motors did. They limit the number of entries, so fill the field at each event with as many vintage cars as you all can. USCA and Optima put on great events that provide all of us with a playground to drive the piss out of our cars and get some great seat time, which I do with a lot of friends at events. Do I ever expect to win the event? No, Do I have any less fun seeing where I stack up? No and I finished 57th overall...I am happily looking forward to the 2016 season! |
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In ANY competitive series...soccer, football, car shows, and car racing...there are challenges and no shortage of opinions on how to resolve them. That is why there are MANY such series...each one has something unique to offer and typically caters to a specific audience of participants and spectators.
Up to this point I think the Optima Series has tried to be focused on the participant. As Jimi pointed out, there is no other series that offers as much seat time AND access to brand name tracks as USCA. They have invested a huge amount of time, money, and effort to create a competitive and fun environment for competitors. And they have arrived. In 2016 there will be a waiting list for entries for many of these events [its already happened this year]. Now they can [hopefully] concentrate on improving the spectator experience, both in person and remotely [TV, livestream, etc.]. The Indy 500 is arguably the most popular race in the world. It is over 100 years old. In 1904 is was not the most popular race in the world. I was not able to run nearly as many Optima events in 2015 as I wanted to. Like most other people, I have other obligations that sometimes take precedence. In 2016 I may run even fewer only because of the locations of the events and the timing compared to other commitments. BUT...I still stand by the USCA format and viability of that format. Danny Popp won that event because he was the best combination of car and driver. Chris Smith in our 48 Hour Corvette was the 33rd best this year. What will it take for us to win that event next year? I'm not sure I care. Our goals are simple: 1. build a fast car to develop and test our suspension components 2. demonstrate how those components perform 3. enjoy ourselves during this process 3. try not to spend ourselves broke doing the above For us, no matter the official standings...mission accomplished. Would I like to win? Sure, everyone wants to be the best. But it is only one path to success...we have many. I know that Jimi Day and Cam Douglass are watching this thread with great interest. They CRAVE constructive criticism [and certainly have the ability to ignore simple whining]. I would encourage everyone to keep these ideas coming...offering detailed opinions if relevant...to help improve the series. |
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That is EXACTLY what needed to be said.... Sign up & Participate. The series started with "us" -- "us" didn't show up to play. |
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98 out of 100 LOL |
I am example of the type of guy that slowly got legislated out of Optima. Granted, most of that is because my project build has taken way too long - my bad, but there is a lot of satisfaction in the build. I have stock frame rails in a vintage car, but not much else. Then there was the "it needs roll-up windows" issue, and lately the restriction on big wings. Couple that with the fact that other sanctioning bodies where you might get much needed track time have mandated more extensive safety restrictions (full cage, changing requirements for cage bar configurations, seat and seat mounting restrictions, etc.) and you end up with a race car with license plates. But that is what you have to do if you are going to be even the least bit competitive with the technically advanced late model stuff. So now I will target the Ultimate Track Car Challenge. I bought an older NASA Spec Focus to complete the required competition licensing program (actually a ball, and cheap to operate). I have a C6Z/Z07 and an ACR on order, but what fun would they be (not to mention the wear and tear) just to be in the middle of the late model, store-bought crowd. I think I would vote for a "street legal" super unlimited class - build it, drive it (legally) to the track, regardless of make or model, and may the best car win THAT class.
Pappy |
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Bring on the Unlimited class!! The more I look at the Dusold Camaro the more I know that these builds need a place to run. Tube chassis, full cage, twin turbo LS7...who wouldn't want to see that run?
As long as they can complete the road portion and show that they're legal in their home state they should be able to run. Look at the draw that the ProMod "streetcars" bring at Drag Week.....trickle down engineering :lol: |
I was one of the Vintage guys to participate and I had a blast doing it! I was very happy with my results and at the end of the day, the event made me feel like I was truly a race car driver. I am just doing this for fun and won't ever be competitive because of Bret's rule no 3. I'm not complaining here, where I spend my money is my choice alone. I will keep coming to as many events as my budget allows and I'll have a blast doing so with the equipment I have.
It's curious to me that more of the builds on this site and Pro-touring don't attend, I read a lot about old cars not being competitive with the modern Vette's, Mustangs and Camaro's and certainly there are people driving those cars that are incredibly fast. The super fast ones that seem to get the most attention on here are not the majority though. I wish that was the message being portrayed here! There are many folks driving their modern cars that aren't the fastest. Recall a few years ago Danny was driving a vintage car and was winning back then too... |
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Regarding the number of GTV guys... The population of protouring cars in general is already a fairly small segment of the overall car hobby. Look at Goodguys events. These events are targeted towards older/vintage cars and draws thousands and thousands of cars to each show and when you walk around how many of them are trully build with a focus on protouring/handling beyond some big wheels and bling?. I'd say well under 10%. Of that group less than 100 actually participate in the autocross portion. Then look at open track days. In SoCal I see people of all walks of life from 18 year olds with beater civics to older wealthy dudes with bad ass race cars at these events. What I don't see are other vintage muscle cars unless I attend a USCA event or shelby club event. out of 80-90 cars that typically attend an open track day in SoCal I'm 99% of the time the only one. If series like USCA are to continue to grow I think they have to appeal to a pretty broad group of participants. All I know is that I can't wait to attend some USCA events in 2016! And for any of my fellow GTV type car owners on the fence about coming because you think you won't be competitive.... just come out and try it! There is a reason that when Jimi goes over goals of each event that competition is way down at 4th. I tell people all the time that I can always go home happy with a smile on my face when I attend any event as long as I improve throughout the day. My #1 "competition" is myself and I love it when my last lap in autocross or session on the road course yields my fastest time regardless of where my overall rank is. |
Optima
I remember years ago some of the new vettes came out and
SCCA autocross boys finally had to make a B-Street prepared vintage class for the Older Vettes.. then a Mazda twin turbo car came out and was later moved out of the newer Vette class... I was running E-Street prepared (pony cars) and the 4wd Subaru was put in the class and later the EVO Classes are tough to regulate... Optima is the gauge of how someone can do against everyone Trying to have one set of rules is difficult.. I think they have done a pretty good job... Everyone wants to do this event and with all the qualifiers you can run any of them and maybe make the big show I have to agree you will not get more seat time at any other event that is around.. I ran 13-14 stop boxes and 14 autocrosses... any other place you are lucky to get 5 runs I find it a place to help dial the car in along with trying to get the driver somewhat better.... time in the car is how you get there Trying to beat Popp, Maier or Houbaugh is something that is hard to do as that they have done it since they were able to drive and have years of seat time and talent- something we all look for:) Being able to drive the car hard and have fun is what it is all about I feel lucky just to run my cars as often as I do and intend to keep at it as long as I can thanks to Jimi,Cam,Optima and all the sponsers for giving us the chance and to the vendors that come up with all the great things that make our cars run better Bob |
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Licensed and registered 200TW Stock WB and maybe original "style" panels That's it, anything goes! Frickin CanAm street cars! It's the direction people are going anyways, why not embrace it instead of saying they can't run. That's it, I'm writing a letter. Dear Jimi, :D |
This post comes from a guy (in case some don't already know ;) ) with about 3 years experience in this part of the hobby, who drives what he thinks is a Vintage Muscle car, and has been very active in helping to create the CAM classes in the SCCA as well as participate in a few USCA qualifying events.
The SCCA and the USCA (my car is too new for Good Guys) have their work cut out for them coming up with ways to keep putting on quality events that create enough of a fun\dollar ratio to keep the registrations full. Their success so far shows they are up to the task. I really like that the SCCA and USCA are working together to create like kind classes for our types of cars to run in, I hope they also work together to work around each other's schedules to allow entrants to continue to attend events in both series easily. Some of the most fun I've had as an entrant at these types of events were at events that I'm certain lost money and were considered unsuccessful, and some of least fun events I've participated in were probably considered successful by those that put it on. I'm not sure there is a good answer for this. All I know is I am personally going to continue to pick and choose the events I attend based solely on the expected fun vs dollar cost ratio. This is why I declined the invitation that I earned to the 2015 OUSCI...I just couldn't see the fun\dollar ratio (for me personally) being anywhere near the point I have to have it to enjoy myself. Certainly there are many others out there that are able to put that ratio into their happy window. The rules, classes, point structure, ability to compete fairly and win all come secondary for this participant...they count...and are looked at when deciding where to go, but the fun factor will continue to be my priority. Distance to travel to an event is a major factor in this. The USCA seems to have forgotten the Midwest Region a little bit this year and I'm sure there are reasons for that...hopefully in future years they'll find ways to come back this way. Regarding classes and rules, both the SCCA and USCA are tip toeing around a line that is very hard to discern (race car vs street car) and everyone seems to have their own opinion on where that line should be...when in fact that line is in a different spot for just about everyone of us. I can speak from experience that making the masses happy when dealing with that line while at the same time putting on events that are economically sustainable and fun for the entrants (and the spectators or possible future entrants) is a near impossible feat. Someone is bound to get butt hurt if they take it too seriously no matter where that line is. |
This thread had me thinking about the USCI and how the GTV cars stacked up against each other. So I parsed the results just for fun. As I've already said fun and seat time are more imporatant to me than all out competition. There are 32 (out of 84 total) pre 1990 cars listed on the USCI results page. Of those 17 managed to score points.
Excluding the road ralley and design & engineering here is how those 17 cars stack up against eachother. Note I didn't separate the GTL cars from the pre 1990 cars so this includes both. http://i1380.photobucket.com/albums/...pssidbivcq.jpg |
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Pappy |
Optima
Since someone said Can Am... lets do the West Coast version
of modern day Can Am... engine in the front... needs a roof and other than that go.. like... Merc9.com Bob |
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So I'm out! The new one I'm toying with 2500 #'s with me in it.... Out again. It's okay -- gives me good excuses to not have to show my lousy driving skills. |
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Might have to add a couple chocolate shakes and some Animal fries..... oh - and wipers and headlights and signals.... Oh! And...... would it be okay if I ran a Euro plate??? LOL Do you think I could get away with rebadging this as an EVO?? Kidding of course --- we can have a bit of laughter can't we?? http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/a...s/4TR_5619.jpg |
Dan, I think we're carrying the same virus. Maybe we caught it from too many of Greg's barbecue weenies . . .
The "unlimited" thing used to be why race cars existed. Perhaps USCA is just helping to build the perfect kind of throwback forum (for building and running the craziest contraption in a kind of automotive decathlon sense). Maybe they're simply the beta version . . . Quote:
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This whole thread comes up every year, It just gets long each year. We attended last year with the Chevelle, It was an extremely well ran event. I still don't understand even why we got an invite. Since we are really rookies to the event, we ran with the all show class. We can't pass and you just go parade around behind the slow car that unknowingly leads the parade. We paid them nothing and they never used any footage from us on TV. They just gave away space to let attempt to make a fool of ourselves with a 1970 Chevelle magazine cover car. They could have let guys who were way more serious participate for a bigger benefit for them selves. But they let us attend. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, we had a ball.
By the way we took my 1 year old daughter on the road rally with my wife in the back seat. If you can do that you truly have a street car. Obviously like anything that is supposed to be fun, everyone gets really serious and wants a leg up on the competition. So as more people realize they would rather win then look cool in a stock suspension 1 gen Camaro. I have said this for years, Pro-touring is going to create to kinds of people, those who build race cars for the street and guys who think their car is capable of racing. People are now realizing that a stock C6 Vette is just as fast as well modded 1st gen Camaro. And cheaper. You don't build winning race cars with bolt on parts for very long, as some one will out think you with their welder pretty soon. If they don't make what is needed for the advantage some will make it. Optima is trying to have an event to give these guys of different skill levels a place to kinda race. Its really not a race when there are other style and taste elements involved. But its alot of fun, but you can't have cars and track with guys you like to compete for long before some one rolls out some money to have an advantage if its allowed. USCA's job is to promote events people will attend and keep people safe and try to make a profit so they can support their own families. Rules are meant to level the playing field and try to keep people as safe as they can and their insurance requires. Like a read in Jackass 2.0 yesterday, Stielow did not want build a muscle car on the level that it would now take to compete. I get that, the testing time and design time would kill any social life that guy might want as it will raise the bar so high. That is why you see guys running basically the same old car as that is probably now getting really well sorted after all these years. Everyone would be much better suited to spend their money on training first. Go to every driving school you can and just drive what ever you have until it aint gonna go any faster ever. This aint Nascar, or any type of real professional racing. Heck just look at the grass roots drag racing these days. Those so called "STREET CARS" are going 3.87 in the 1/8 mile on a drag radials. But those guys will build and do what ever is needed. |
100% correct^^^^^. Im going to ron fellows driving school in pahrump in january. My father in law bought a new z06 w/z07pkg so he got a real sweet deal on the school. Im tagging along to keep him company and im gonna do the school in a regular c7. I know more than anyone that i need to learn how to drive. I did a track x event here at the national corvette museum motorsports park and knew immediately I was out of my league. It was very fun and scary at the same time. I just want to get better with what i got and not build a race car that you can drive on the street.
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I think most know that this isn't any kind of real race, more of an event to get together and run your car at whatever level you may be at. Some people go to GoodGuys, set up a chair and look at people looking at their car....uh, ok. For the folks that like to run their car in different events, this is the one to attend. (I'm talking more about the regional events then the finals in Vegas) I've seen all levels up folks running all sorts of cars. Is it for everyone? Obviously not.
It's a track day with more auto-X and speed stop then you'd get any place else. Throw in the vendors, expert drivers, an ass load of like minded people and you've got a great weekend. All that's needed is the Ultimate/Unlimited class:woot: p.s. 1/8 mile is only half of a drag race |
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I compete in the USCA events because it is well organized, provides lots of seat time (if the event is not too crowded) has instructors to take advantage of and has some great like minded people to hang around with, learn from and have some friendly competition with. Vendor support is usually present and welcomed. It also lets me drive my car in a venue with other like cars to give me a bench mark of my cars abilities as well as my own. With the information I gathered over the course of competing in these events over the last year, I made some changes to the car and gathered much needed driving and set up experience. Granted, I am never going to rise to the driving level of Danny, Brian, Mary or Jake but if I can get close I am mostly satisfied and know I am going in the right direction. Being lucky enough to have been invited to this years OUSCI I felt humbled by the field of drivers, the level and variety of cars, the SEMA experience, vendor support, and the event itself. Logistically it was difficult to arrange for time off, last minute hotel, costs and vehicle prep but it may be a once in a lifetime experience. A bucket list item and something I am very grateful and fortunate to have been a part of but it took a lot of work. I knew before I started this build that trying to make a near 50 year old car out handle a newer prepared all wheel drive car, C5/6/7 or Porsche or other exotic was never going to happen. I chose to build my car because it provided a challenge and I love old iron. It would be easier and cheaper to have started with something newer and better like a C5/6 but then I wouldn't' be part of this group or even in this discussion. I just wanted to go out there and have fun and fun was had! That being said the OUSCI had a different feel to it that a normal event. There was an East Coast/West Coast type feel to it and did not have the sense of community like I have seen in the past. Maybe it was just me or the fact that we were spread out across a large area I don't know. I normally keep to myself but I did reach out to several others that I only knew through facebook posts. I think I managed to get more noticed when I went out and hammered on the car and had some great conversations with some other drivers. Not sure if the car got any coverage as the camera crews seemed focused on all the usual suspects. Jimi and his staff as well as the Optima staff do tons to get these events together and definitely hear and read what we are saying about the series. If the series is to survive it has to draw the participants regardless of class. If you like vintage and can live with never being the Ultimate Car then run it. if you really have to win and have the talent to win jump into another class. There is always room for improvement, for instance as a participant i have a front row seat to the action, not so great for a spectator, family member or fan. You would have needed a good camera to get a good shot and you didn't get to feel the thunder of an engine at full tilt coming through the straights. There was a really good crowd at the event and hopefully they will continue to come in the future. As for the classes, I love GTV but I also would like to see some recognition in that area. The Ultimate winner should remain that winner regardless of class but maybe something can be done to level the field. The D&E really made a difference in where I placed as well as others. I have to figure out where I get dinged and make some changes. All that said, I am a home builder. My car is cobbled from cast off used parts, Ebay, Craigs, sites like this on or wherever I can find them. I have busted knuckles, bled, sweat, countless hours of time invested as well as money. I feel I have built a good car. It's opened up so many new doors for me. It's even surprised a few people. Can it be better? Of course, and I will continue to work on it as well as myself and participate in this series as long as it remains reasonably affordable and fun. I look forward to next year and maybe another invite. In the meantime there is more work to do. For those that haven't done one of these at least try it. Get your cars together, make them as safe as possible and worry about where you may stack up later and run within your ability. This is the only series that i know of that lets you run on iconic tracks and really push your cars and yourselves. Build them, drive them, fix them, repeat! |
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Pappy, the backside looks great! For some reason I thought you were building an early T-Bird...my bad. Looking forward to seeing what you've got brewin. :cheers: |
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Tu |
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One comment I have for anyone listening... A couple of years ago I attended the Australian V8 Supercars race at COTA. It was the first, and only so far, event that I have attended where they used a crossover portion of the track which cuts off the rear dogleg. I really liked that track setup, and I think it would be worth considering for this event. It takes the highest speed portion of the track out of the equation (coming back down from turn 11 to turn 12). It would allow more actual laps and take some of the risk out of the event. I realize that may not be the most popular suggestion, but I like the possibility of more laps with less risk personally! Looking forward to making a couple of events next year, one in my back yard!!! Found a good map showing the option I am referring to... See the cutover at turn 5... http://racingready.com/wp-content/up...-Supercars.jpg |
Completely agree with Bryan on using the short course if possible. That straight in the back is LONG. Front is enough straight for me and corners are more fun.
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COTA is most definitely going to be hot. I cant imagine anyone being in the mood for BBQ once we're done slow roasting at the track all day.
I was just remembering today how hard it was to keep the car cool at TMS in March. Im going to have to do something about my cooling system before August. |
Thats why street cars have a/c!!! lol, but not really laughing, really just enjoying my a/c in my "street car".....oops, forgot we need the windows down, yep, hot it is, cant stick our heads out the window either, dam!
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Optima
Glassman... my buddy with a Yates headed 408 stack injected
Cleveland in his Pantera says Ac is for Babies... he said he and the wife just spray each other with water bottles going 100mph plus on our way to the yearly Vegas Pantera get together:) No AC in my cars..dead weight... just like the passenger Bob |
When I was at Fontana watching guys in the pits with their windows up and A/C on staged and waiting to on track I will admit that I was pretty jealous.
Sadly, I have A/C but hadn't gotten around to getting it recharge after the motor swap. So I'm paying the weight penalty and getting no benefit! |
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