For all the research and costs involved in bringing this piece to the public, trust me 6700 is a bargain. You will never loose on it.

G- Body, try and work on some grammar and spelling. Its hard reading your posts, that is the least you can do.

So many people look at the price, if you bought something for 30 K that was quality and engineered well and sold it for 30K you come out even. If you spent 20K for non quality and sold it for 10K then you lost 10K, but only spent 20K. Simple economics, look at value big boy!

Thank you Stuart!!!

Great point! finally someone gets it, http://www.cachassisworks.com/downlo...l14_71-105.pdf
heres the info. You know what this just may be all for nothin the good points made from both ends, When Detroit only sells a small amount of these "GREAT" frames at that number, besides im sure its not cheap to have too pay for a machine that hydroforms, lol and when they sell less than expected you guys that have bought them for that price will feel a little silly when a year or two later there selling them there or on ebay for a couple grand :rofl:cant wait to see how Detroit frame performs with some real power sitting in its saddle!

If money is not a problem, then why bash on something you don't know anything about? Just because you don't have the money and others do, doesn't mean that the product you think is best is. Fact is, you really don't have a clue on what you're talking about. You should research Corvette geometry and Mustang 2 geometry. It's a world of difference, and this is one reason why your argument carries no weight. This I can say. The Detroit piece is far superior in construction due to the hydroforming, corvette style geometry, and build quality then an Alston piece. Yes it's going to handle better, and be stronger. This is why this frame is more expensive, but I'm sure you didn't know this already. You really should know your facts before you open your piehole and call it and us suckers for buying the product.

Once again you failed to answer my questions which leads me to believe you really don't know what you are talking about..

I guess to be blunt you're just talking out your ass and have zero data to back up your claims :yes:

What did DSE ever do to you man?

Steve what do you wish to know

Also....If you ever had any contact with kyle in person....This guy knows what the hell he it talking about...that subframe probuly would out handle anything you could come up with....he aint no dummy......

-Paul

Do you not read his posts? :willy:

I won't lock it.. I'm just annoyed when people jabber on and make stupid statments based on "feelings".. if you are gonna say XYZ is better the ABC then how about a reason other than "it's cheaper" and "it looks better"..

I also stepped in on another site when someone proclaimed the DSE sub as "the best one on the market".. that was a silly statement since we don't know much about it yet. DSE has all the data and I'm sure at some point they will share what they can. Hell, the product was just introduced last weekend.

Lead, price is a funny thing.. on one hand you have a Seiko watch for $20.. it tells you the time and maybe even the date.. so why is a Rolex watch $3000? It does the same function. The difference is in quality and there are people in the world willing to pay more for higher quality item that does roughly the same thing. The DSE roll bar fits better than a SW unit and has a few more features that people are willing to spend the extra cash for. Does it do the same thing as the SW cage? yep.. Is it higher quality? yep.. and people with the cash are willing to spend it on products that are just a little bit better than the less expensive stuff. It's why people spend $300,000 on a Ferrari when a $70,000 Z06 would kick it's ass..

Why would anyone buy a Mercedes when they could just buy a Chevy Cobalt? They both have four rubber tires that touch the ground.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

:lol:

Here.. let me ask it a THIRD time..

You said:
And I asked:
So, do you know the weight of the complete Alston sub? Do you know the weight of the complete DSE sub? Are you just guessing?

Do you have engineering data to show the Alston frame is stronger than the DSE frame? Do you have any geometry data on the DSE frame to show that it's "stock"? Is the stock subframe designed to accomodate a rack and pinion system? Is it designed to accomodate coil over shocks? If not then how can you call the DSE frame stock with a straight face?

If you don't like it or think it's too expensive then don't buy it.. a simple concept than you seem unable to grasp. Stop trying so hard to control other peoples finances. :lol:

Steve lets see some performance numbers in a car some track times etc. than well talk alston and the other builders have proven what there products can do art morrison total cost etc. Then we see how worth the money this fine peice of nasa product is lol, oh yeah steve you seem to be a great speller its........ well hell hears the links just incase you cant spell!http://www.cachassisworks.com/http:/...tinvolved.com/

Ok,

This is exactly what i needed.

So we don't have any specs....Anyone else???

That s exactly reflects the feeling i have, everybody gets all excited because its a DSE part (not to discredit it ok) without even knowing (make that understanding...) what it can bring you!!!

If they start building bridges...'will you all be in line?

Guy's...To all of you in this post let me know PLEASE; Who races their car seriously ???

Come on! Tell me why you NEED this part, what's it gonna change? Except you'll have the 'Latest' toy and less dough in your pockets.

I for one don't race (not professionnally or seriously i'm into street cars)

Lead.

Thanks Leadfoot1 on that note nothin more is to be said :rofl:

Huh!?

I didn't make fun of your spelling so you must not really read the other comments very well.. where is that :fu: smilie??

So, what you are saying is that you really don't know **** as far as specs or weights of either subframe and in fact you were just rambling nonsense? (bolded since you seem to have an A.D.D. issue)

Gee, the sub came out on Saturday.. I guess they have had a whole 5 days to "show what thier product can do".. lol..

Who cares who races? Does every person that buys a new Z06 need to be a race car driver to appreciate the engineering and handling of the car?

I don't see why is wrong for people to be excited about a new part and OPTOMISTIC about it's potential. Time will tell if it's a good part or not :shrug:

Dismissing it out of hand is as stupid as declaring it the best in the world.

Please go back and read my Rolex analogy.. some people just want to buy the highest quality stuff they can get. I don't know why this is a tough concept.

G-Body, it really shows no class when you say the things you have been saying. Get in your pinto and ride out of here, comments on both sides of the fence are always a good thing, but yours are just immature and stupid.

I could not agree more.

But at this point, if i understand correctly, all we have on this new product...ARE feelings.

I was typing in the timeframe you posted your last post....This is going fast!

About my racing point. Its just to see if anyone who talks about "Performance" parts know wtf they are talking about. But in the end it still comes down to the driver.

Its ok to want the part just because its (sounds) hot. Just don't (did not read it from you) praise it before you know what it is...Or just because its from a dedicated company. Come on. I can,t understand that...Maybe i'm too poor... :lol:

Lead.

'Guess thats the end....

Lead.

Steve, the Rolex analogy was a good one.

Years of R&D went into this product and that doesn't happen for free.

Ive gotta go work on my car......If I stay on here im never going to get off and going to get pissed....

-Paul

Just for the record.. my posts weren't directed at you.. :)

Yea.. but FEELING like it's too expensive is one thing.. declaring that another subframe is "lighter" and "stronger" and has "better geometry" when that person has zero idea of the data is just lame. Just as lame as saying this frame is the best in the world based on "feelings"

Dig?

I don't need this part, but I want it, and here's my reason why -
I'm building a PT car.
And I'm building a PT car cuz I love the looks of the early camaro, firebird, nova, chevelle, cuda and others. But, with a stock front-end most of them handle like either a shopping cart or a tour bus.
I want the best of both worlds; the looks of a early muscle car and the handling of a modern day vette.

- Dan

I praise it for what it is a this point.. a promising new product turned out by a company known for quality. I praise DSE for spending a boatload of $$$ trying to come out with a product "different" for the other ones on the market and for trying new innovative ideas.

I never said it was "better" or "worse" than any other aftermarket subframe because I have no idea if is. :captain:

Exactly why i wrote i did not read it from you :)

This is ending nicely... i think.

Ok now, how about we wait and see who gets one first!!!

Thanks to all for their comments. I had fun!

'gotta work too...


Lead.

Kyle has had one on their test car for a while now and has put some miles on it, they actually drove it to Columbus also. His comments are very positive, he is very picky, if he likes it, it will definately work for me.

Yes he sells them but he would not if it was not good, final answer.

I was also at the Columbus GG and saw their test car. Don't know why but, I love that car.

I questioned Frank (DSE) on how good the fit was. He said they pulled the motor, supported the body and dropped the stock subframe then installed the new subframe. He said there was no need to remove any panels and very little alignment was needed.

When I talked to Kyle he said his goal was a stock look and true bolt in. Guess he achieved his goal.

Once I can afford it, I will buy one. Those of you who disagree with the price need to see it live. In my opinon, It's one the best aftermarket products available. You can tell a lot of thought went into the design.

Mike

I agree......Once you see it in person your like WOW...


-Paul

I almost forgot. Kyle said the frame allows a 10 inch wide tire without modifing the inner fender. I thought that was pretty sweet. :thumbsup:Mike

10" tire up front is real cool, especially when you make a turn and it turns freely without binding or hitting the sub frame. My WD sub in the Aluminator always hit the sway bar with sharp turns, not good for drive thru's. LOL.

If you are like myself and want a rack on your sub (because you just like racks), I think you only have the high end models (DSE, 21st, WD) to consider.

I know Alston has a rack, but it has dated technology and a rear mount sway bar that they don't see a need to offer an option on. Most annoyingly, a list of proprietary crossmembers for everything but a T-56. I don't think the Foose Camaros are running them anymore, they mention a "tubular" sub frame in their new literature. I have also read some unflattering comments about flex from a pro builder on Martz frames.

I think there is an opportunity for WD's "new" frame that accepts the DSE conversion stuff, plus a rack in the sub market based on price. I figure that if WD markets his frame for around 2500-2600 with rack and sway bar, it would sell pretty good. Add in 1850 for the DSE stuff and 6-650 for some AFX spindles, you could have a DSE spec, Modified stock sub WITH a rack for 5-5200 w/out brakes? Oh, and fix the single point shear mounts on the back LCAs. How about it WD? Time to update the ol website.

I have been bitching and moaning about the price of DSE's sub, but I would like to eventually buy one after my next deployment. Kyle did mention the possibility of the sub's price increasing if it is very popular. I hope this doesn't happen in the next 6 months or so. I wish they had a lay away plan! :unibrow:

Those of you who want real numbers, get in line. I think most of us do. Do I race? No. Do I drive like I'm racing? Pretty damn often. Will I feel the difference between the stock geometry and the new subrame's geometry? It's likely I won't, but I WILL notice the better steering response, feedback, and other little things. A friend of mine didn't think he could make his Z06 handle any better. Now he thinks the T-1 sway bars he put on the car are god. You can tell the difference if you drive the car hard enough, and he regularly goes in the local hills and races motorcycles. Yeah, he leaves a few of them in the turns.

Now, if you want to see it in person you're going to have to make a little trip. Go to the Pro-Touring.com "Run Through the Hills" sponsored by MuscleRides.com. (sorry for the advertising Scott) Kyle and Stacey will be there with the blue "test" car and will be putting the front subframe through the paces. You'll witness what it can do, and you'll get input directly from the people who put it out. They had the car on the Power Tour and it apparently performed admirably. Make your decisions after they throw it around some cones and cruise the hills in it.

What other company is out testing their stuff on real cars with potential lay buyers watching, pretty cool.

So just as a confirmation the $6700 includes the rack, shocks (coil-overs), spindles, sway bar etc? everything minus the brakes? What kind (brand, model, type) of components does it have other than C6 spindles? Are they all proprietary one offs? or any off the shelf pieces?

Trev

Well, XV Motorsports will be there (the Mopar guys) and Air Ride Technologies will be trashing the course as well. Should be VERY interesting..

Sounds fun, what are the dates.

Sept 15-17th.. in Pigeon Forge TN.. should be a blast. Some nice cars will be there including the newly crowned Street Machine of the Year..

Speaking of prices, I spent $10 for one small slice of cardboard with 2 pepperoni's on it and a medium lemonade at GG Columbus!! LOL. Heck auto parts seem half off compared to the food at these events!!LOL.