I'm sure all application are different, but for my installation, 1st gen w/ LS7, the Speedtech Extreme will require their sheet metal oil pan with remote oil filter and no provisions for a low mount A/C compressor. That would add over $3500 to the build price (adding a front runner, oil pan, remote oil filter). Sure I like the idea of some wider meat up front, but by saving my current front drive low mount A/C compressor system and oil pan set up I can stretch the front and have a wider track.
Disclaimer: Information based on my current knowledge so I could be l afu and would like to be proven incorrect.

Does the Ultimate LS swept header work with the Speedtech subframe. Not sure what a 3/4 header is?? or who's making them

ACTUALLY KWIK has come up with a new adaptor bracket that WILL ALLOW for a low mount A/C you will need a small Sanden 507 compressor but that is now an option, I would have to confirm if it is available or adaptable to a LS7

And info like this -- is EXACTLY why you call SpeedTech! They have the newest hottest subframe on the market... designed by Ron Sutton... that takes the largest tires... that has the best specs for handling AND YOU CAN GET JUST ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE NEEDED TO COMPLETE YOUR PROJECT.

In other words - it's called KNOWLEDGE AND SUPPORT that comes with the sale. Invaluable info when building a project.

NO, we have used several of their models all of which had interference issues, we have designed a long tube set for the First gen and they are in production now. for the Second Gen we opted to do a 3/4 length header the cars floor sits so low that a full length header would have hung down almost 2" below the frame rail. this way a 3" 45 deg bend will mate up to the collector and will be about flush with the frame rail when finished.
Ultimate Headers is building them, they use 321 material and have some nice cast elbows and flanges,

I'm not an debating kind of guy, but didn't want you or anyone to get the wrong impression. The C6 front suspension ... and spindle ... is a good design. (The C7 is a little better) I work with several clients with C5/C6 Corvettes to improve their performance ... as well as tons of clients with C5/C6 based front ends in Muscle cars.

The problem is when a person or shop uses the C6 suspension components in a different car and mounts them in significantly different locations than they were in the C5/C6. These are pivot points for the suspension geometry. So we're not really getting the C6 geometry ... just some of the parts.

I understand why & no one is to be faulted. The challenge for C6 based suspension builders is engine location. In the C5/C6, the engine is behind the rack. For a clip to work in most muscle cars ... the engine has to sit over the rack. Otherwise the car owner would need to cut the firewall & move the engine back 8-10" which is not desired by most customers.

So the rack ... commonly a '97-2004 Mustang rack ... gets mounted several inches lower to be under the engine. To get the bump steer & camber gain optimized ... requires different control arm mounting locations than the C5/C6 ... and this messes up the roll center location. It could be fixed with a custom spindle, but the cost is substantial.

As far as OEM Mustang rack durability goes ... with sticky 275-315 tires in autocross competition ... it is the car owners running them that have had failures & expressed frustration. In designing the new Speedtech front end to run 315s in the same demanding application ... we stepped up the rack to dual power & heavier duty at a cost around 3 times as much. I'm sure everyone understands Speedtech didn't do that because they wanted to spend 3X more. It simply eliminates that problem for Speedtech eXtreme clip buyers.

Best wishes everyone !

:cheers:

How does the DSE frame reflect in your comments? Are you seeing rack issues on their frame or handling issues?

Your question was answered.

Many variables come into play. For starters, the power steering pump, cooler, fluid, compound, temperature, etc...

Is a mustang 2 rack made for racing?

I loved my DSE subframe. I think you own one, it's a great piece.

Just a note I have a Speedtech Extreme subframe. I currently have an autocraft oil pan which fits fine on my lsa. I am also running a stock ctsv accessory drive.With low mount ac using the small vintage air compressor

This whole discussion reminds me of so many others. Everyone has an opinion. Everyone has a favorite.

The DSE is years old - nothing wrong with it - but it's not much different than discussing C4 vs C5 vs C6 and now the newest C7....

When the C4 came out it was the best thing going... Now? It's still good - but not great. When the C8 comes out - it SHOULD be an improvement over the C7

The SpeedTech ExtReme is the newest - fresh design - best geometry currently available...

There will never be a same model - same horsepower - same configuration - same driver - same day - same track "battle" that will satisfy someone that wants to own a DSE part... Or for that matter, a SpeedTech product. The magazine "tests" all cloak their reviews with BS so they don't offend an advertiser... and in most cases of multiple product tests "many" advertisers.

In the end - a crap driver with great products in a well sorted car... will finish back of the pack. A great driver with a half assed POS will probably be up near the front. I've run with Miata's I can barely keep up with... I've run right past ZR1's (shaking my head).

Do your homework - base a purchase on product, service, delivery, after the sale service, parts combo you intend to use. Then make a choice and build the car accordingly. Drive it and have fun. By the time you're half way thru the process there will be 10 newer products out that make your's look antique.


And the debate continues.... LOL

This is the most true statement you will ever read on any car forum...Well done Greg!

Good points Obe One.

I like something that has been engineered, tested, tried and is true.

Has the Extreme frame been tested extensively?

WE have been driving the C10 which is virtually identical. We have done a couple auto crosses with it and the Optima event. Extensively??? more is always better, Rogers 69 will be done the transformation in a week and that will also then be tested.
It was tested it ALOT during design, production and a lot of installs so we know the fit is good, the construction is beyond any other that I have seen, most of the moving parts are what we use in thousands of other components .I feel we have addressed some items that had not previously been considered limitations or requirements in the past . I would love to say we are just like an OEM and have been designing and driving this for the last 4 years, that is an advantage DSE has right now for sure. I know there are 4 or 5 guys building cars right now to run this year so it shouldn't be long now.

Sounds really positive especially with you and Sutton involved.

Yep!:drive:

http://i65.tinypic.com/2hd5gl1.jpg
http://i66.tinypic.com/4sk66r.jpg

"Alongfortheride" Who's a/C bracket are you using with which a/C compressor? Everything looks super tight in there.

Most of my clients, as well as Speedtech's truck, utilize the Drive Junky LS drive system I offer ... which has the A/C mounted up high.

IMHO, it is the Best LS Drive System ...
A. The right water pump we needed, the 2-piece Edelbrock Victor aluminum water pump.
B. A real racing power steering pump from Jones Racing, which I've used for years with great success.
C. A TIG welded aluminum P/S reservoir mounted on the pump ... baffled to prevent slosh & foaming of the power steering fluid.
D. 170 Amp Powermaster Alternator
E. Strong, well designed idler & tensioner mechanisms & pulleys.
F. An ATI Superdamper to protect the crank.
G. Ultra high precision Twin bearings used on all the idlers.

And last but not least ...
H. A Superior design with OVER 180° of belt wrap (contact area) on the power steering pump.

You Autocross? No more belt skip.
Running big front tires? No more pump issues.
Revving your engine to 7000+? No more bearing or component failures.
Have a quality/expensive engine? Protected with a ATI Superdamper.

Want it to still look great? Easy Peasy. You can see the great style, and it's available in:
* Brushed Aluminum
* Polished Aluminum
* Black Hard Anodize over Polished Aluminum

It's a tad more expensive at $2699, but it's got the best quality components, finish & design.


:cheers:

would love to see the SPEEDTECH c10 with a IRS on the speedtech extreme frame please keep us updated if you guys have this in the works

Small vintage air sanden compressor cbm ac mount and a factory ctsv accessory drive.

Ron, do you have any idea what's different about the PS pump? The Drive Junky set-up looks nice and it's the only other drive I've seen besides the Wegner Motorsports drive that has that alternator and the proper PS belt wrap.

Ron, do you have any idea what's different about the PS pump? The Drive Junky set-up looks nice and it's the only other drive I've seen besides the Wegner Motorsports drive that has that alternator and the proper PS belt wrap.[/QUOTE]

Ya, I've been eyeing that Wegner system, price is a bit better with the option of a 225 amp alt. I'd like to find out the product difference and will do so before I purchase.

http://www.wegnerautomotive.com/data...1_1152x576.jpg

Hey Ron do they have an accessory drive for the lsa engine?

Hi Tim & everyone reading along about the LS Drive system & pumps ... I've moved this section to a new post, so we don't hijack the OP's thread about DSE & Speedtech clips any more than we already have.

Go Here: https://lateral-g.net/forums/show...d=1#post630652

:cheers:

Ya, I've been eyeing that Wegner system, price is a bit better with the option of a 225 amp alt. I'd like to find out the product difference and will do so before I purchase.

http://www.wegnerautomotive.com/data...1_1152x576.jpg


I've moved this section to a new post, so we don't hijack the OP's thread about DSE & Speedtech clips any more than we already have.

Go Here: https://lateral-g.net/forums/show...d=1#post630652

:cheers:

surprised no one has mentioned chassisworks front subframe. Anyone care to comment on their experience with Chris Alton's product.

Would anyone here like to do a comparison of a cell phone produced 8 years ago to the newest technology that just got released? Didn't think so. The old one still works, and makes great phone calls, but old and reliable doesn't always mean better and the new ones work so well it's hard to remember how we survived on the old ones. Remember pagers? ...

The whole purpose of a company, Apple, Chevrolet, Wirlpool, Samsung... , investing a lot of $ and time in R&D and releasing a new product is to supersede an old design with newer ideas and/or better technology, all in the name of better performance. It would be a total waste to just add a new part # to fill up the page in a catalog. In that respect the Pro Touring parts world is no different. We've seen incredible advancements in product quality and design in the last 5, 10, 15 years. Speedtech is now leading the charge to opening up the next chapter of the book called achieving a higher level of performance. The extensive effort invested into this frame/suspension is to move from the "wouldn't it be cool" stage to the real world of pushing cars harder than they ever have been before.

As has been said a real world comparison would require exactly identical cars and drivers with the suspension being the only variable. That's nigh impossible to even do, because no two cars are exactly the same. Suspension geometry is math, facts that can be proven through mathematical equations. We know if A gets a certain result, then when we improve A we will then get improved results. ExtReme products are that improvement yielding an improved result. Math doesn't lie, it's not allowed to.

Customer response has been incredible for this new suspension. Unfortunately many of the frames that have already gone out the door are for cars still in the build stage, I think we all understand that one. I believe in the near future though, as these cars hit the track and they get dialed in to those specific cars and drivers, the results will prove themselves again and again. We saw this happen years ago with the Pro Touring subframe when it had the latest technology, now Speedtech is taking it's turn, again.

Wow, that's rough. I don't think I would compare DSEs frame to an old flip cell phone. :popcorn2:

Ya, I think he was referring to my comment on CA Chassisworks, but I guess it applies to DSE and probably many other subframe manufactures using that old flip phone C6 technology.

Of course everyone wants people to buy their product, but to state one brand is inferior because of how long ago it was released, it just not right. Last I checked torque arm suspensions, delrin bushings, corvette hubs, ATS spindles are not new revelations. I'll wait and see how the Speedtech built cars fare at the autocrosses. OUSCI is coming up here in no time.

Real world results doesn't require exact built cars with exact skilled drivers, you can see trends and the current trend clearly shows that DSE cars out perform similar cars with different set-ups.

In the world of race components, which is what these (and all other aftermarket subs) aftermarket subs are, there are design improvements made every year. Ben is not referring to hardware that is hanging on the subframe, meaning control arms, spindles, etc, but he is specifically talking about geometry. Pivot points in particular. Geometry is what makes the subframe work for you, not you working to make it work. The front roll center of these new subs quite frankly will be the best out there, in a pro touring competition style environment. Ron Sutton knows his stuff. He and the ST guys have created a masterpiece.

I raced asphalt late models for many years, and we would cut our front clips off our cars almost every year if our chassis maker found an improvement in geometry, regardless of the fact that it was all adjustable pivot points to start with. You simply cannot argue with mathematics. Of course at that point we are simply trying to keep up with the competition. Nobody wants to go to the track knowing that their equipment is second rate. It puts you behind the eight ball right off the bat, and it's very hard to dig out of a situation like that when your racing weekly. Just not enough time to revamp...

Let's keep in mind here that there are drivers out there that will win in whatever car they are in. Talent trumps new technology every time. BUT...you put talent in a car with the kind of technology that is being offered here, and it's not going to be a easy day for those chasing them.

Yea I might not have phrased it the same way Ben did.
Obviously we (and I mean EVERYONE at Speedtech) are proud of our products and are really Excited to prove how well this new design will perform.
Ben, I am sure being the marketing guy, was trying to make a comparison that people could relate to and was not intending to :stirthepot:
We all know the DSE stuff is GREAT other wise we would not be trying to make stuff better. I would like noting more that to be able to have cars at every event and run head to head with not only DSE but all the great cars. and that day is coming. As we produce and sell more and better products and more people get these Speedtech ExtReme track time packages and Chassis on the road and track it will make for some good competition/FUN.

Will the corvette z06 brakes mount on the new extreme sub frame?

Yes any c5 c6 (c7to the best of my knowledge) will bolt up.
or ANY aftermarket brake made for the same applications

Man, I was really really leaning towards the AME setup but this has me really thinking about switching to speedtech.

Well if you need more convincing ask Ron Sutton how good the geometry is.
he has worked on all of them. and did the design on this one.

I just got off the phone with Jay to get get more info in these extreme sub frames. For the time being I'm sticking with a Chevy small block engine so unfortunately this frame won't work. Jay did take the time to discuss the legacy pro touring frame and I think it might be an option now since I'm sticking with my current engine set up.

hope we can help you one way or another.