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-   -   Anyone going over 200 mph??? (https://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php?t=5569)

HAULNSS 08-12-2006 11:41 PM

Here you go...Click here. :yes: One mile straight with a nice bank into turn one.



http://www.minnessota.com/pictures/Pic_313_23.jpg

That shot was of a 600hp '93 Z28 set up for road course duty during one of our club events at BIR. :D Pic of the car is here. That same car was radared at 219mph in a western state with a different powerplant that had much more power. ;)
http://www.rmarshall.com/_images/camaro_219.jpg



Randy

hotrods 08-13-2006 02:01 AM

I only have on thing to say on this topic. GO TO bigredcamaro.com Looks alot like a stock body to me everyone seems to me to be making a way bigger deal about this than it really is 200 mph is not that big of a deal. Look at some of the vehicles that hold land speed records and you will be amazed at how many have gone faster than 200 and dont look like a nascar or the space shutle.

hiwayman 08-13-2006 02:19 AM

hey hotrods cheers for the link big red at the Z2Z holy how fast did they go awsome!!!

clill 08-13-2006 08:33 AM

Look at the pics of Big Red and you will notice how the front end is drooping down. They pie cut the fenders where they meet the door and dropped the nose down to keep air from getting under the car and it creates downforce on the hood..

nitrorocket 08-13-2006 08:47 AM

Big red just has a stockish looking front air dam. I guess I will just lower the car and put some adjustable shocks on and test it out a few mph at a time??

Colvindesign 08-13-2006 09:00 AM

200 in a chevelle?
 
I went 170 (radar backed up) in a street car once, and only once. And it was built to go that fast and then some. This was in a 1979 Mustang with modified aerodynamics and a much smaller front profile than a Chevelle.

Here is what I would suggest to someone trying to do so,

full tube chassis. Full street race suspension. Very expensive Forged wheels, Very expensive 200 mph tires.

Honestly, for the price of getting your car "safely" to 200 mph, you can just build another LSX powered muscle car that will be awesome and you will have two awesome cars instead of on that will most likely kill you. Doing 200 on a road instead of a track, leaves you open to what can happen on a track, plus what can happen on a road. Think about how much a 15 lb animal will weigh when it is coming at you at 200 mph.

Yeah, it'd be cool to say "My car went 200 mph" but it'd be really pointless if you were not around to say that.

Streetking 08-13-2006 09:32 AM

Ok, the first time I went to Silver State in my old '84 Vette, I was doing 208mph with no spoilers. I had the car really low, street Michelins (didn't know any better), and I had a passenger. The car handled fine. I had the Konis turned to the max stiffness and a good alignment done. The next year I went back with a stronger motor and had to have a cowl hood to clear the bigger carb. Same suspension set up, different passenger and the car was all very unstable above 185. Infact, I could only go about 195 because it was really scary. I couldn't believe that just adding the cowl hood made that much change in the aerodynamics of the car. Up to 170, I could basically drive one handed and have a conversation with my co-driver, above 175 it was another story.

As far as 1/4 mile time, my old 6spd Supra ran 9.81@ 153.7, so you can run over 150 and still be in the nines if your car has alot of power and is not set up for the 1/4.

I did the Texas mile in my Viper 2 years ago and ran 191 with it making 650 rwh and 657twt. I'm going back later this year with the Viper, now that it's making 1300 rwh we want to see what it will do. The problem now is how we are going to hook up 1300rwh on street tires. We are going to have to turn the boost down and probably have to ramp it up with the ECU through the gears. I hope to crest the 200mph mark in the standing mile.

Bottom line is, it's not all just about horspower, there alot of factors for you to get that horsepower to the ground and being safe at the same time..
SW

USAZR1 08-13-2006 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by camcojb
The last Road and Track standing mile had several heavy hitters including a champ car, 1000+ HP Viper, twin turbo S7 Saleen, a couple other race cars and exotics (modded), etc. There was not a single car in the bunch hitting 200 mph in 3/4 mile like you think yours will do. There were three that could hit 200 in a mile, and 11 that were 154-185 mph. The three were the TT Viper at 210 mph, the TT Saleen S7 at 205 mph, and the Lola champ car at 203 mph. You have the HP of the Viper, or something close although he'll have you on torque, a few hundred pounds lighter, and much more aerodynamic. The Saleen and Champ car are lighter still.

Your car may have the power to make 200 mph, but not in a mile in my opinion. But I do not think you can control the car at that speed either without some big help in the air management area. I do not know what changes would be required, but HP alone will not get you there, at least not and live to tell about it. Your car is dangerous compared to most in that it has the HP to get you beyond what the car can handle. In other words, the standard 500-600 HP Chevelle would be limited to say 160 mph as he would not have the HP to push the car shape any faster. He might be near the limit as far as lift, etc. but not over it. Your car will push past that on power alone and will get into an area you do not want to be in.
The goal is cool (except for the street part) and I hope you pursue it. But please do it with the safety equipment required and work your way up in speed testing the handling and air management changes. I would be talking to the Bonneville guys as they go very fast in stock bodied cars of all shapes and sizes.
Jody

This is a very intelligent post. Jody knows what he's talking about. SW has been there too. I've been over 175mph numerous times myself,on bikes and in modified ZR-1's. Corvettes and Vipers are pretty stable and confidence-inspiring at ultrahigh speeds but I would be extremely careful working your way up with a Chevelle. If the car decides to fly,it can happen so fast you won't be able to get outta the gas in time.

FWIW,you will not need a 6spd trans to run an ORR. Most of the Unlimited class cars are running 4spds with 2.00-2.50 final drive ratios.

Damn True 08-13-2006 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hotrods
I only have on thing to say on this topic. GO TO bigredcamaro.com Looks alot like a stock body to me everyone seems to me to be making a way bigger deal about this than it really is 200 mph is not that big of a deal. Look at some of the vehicles that hold land speed records and you will be amazed at how many have gone faster than 200 and dont look like a nascar or the space shutle.



Yeah, Big Red looks stock on your computer screen. However it is anything but. That is a very well thought out and sorted chassis and body built by people who knew EXACTLY WTF they were doing.

The post above about the effect of the change to a cowl hood is very telling.

The link I posted a page back will explain why that happend.

nitrorocket 08-13-2006 02:55 PM

I can do close to 150 mph from a standing stop in only a 1/4 mile right now, that is why I was figuring I could do another 50 mph in an additional 1/2 mile. I may take a mile to reach 200 mph, but I can surely do it as the car sits in my garage right now, the matter is doing it safely and for a possible extended period. My car right now is making a little over 1000hp and 850 ft/lb of torque, give or take a little bit.

My gearing with overdrive will only allow me to do exactly 200 mph at redline anyway.The car, so far rock stable at 150 mph, although I have not tried to really hold that speed for any period of time yet (on ramps are not long enough). I am sure it will be a slow transition to make it a road race car, but I luckily already have most the mechanical parts I need. I still need to decide on shocks and rear anti-roll bar yet, I also want to switvh over to the 4L80E trans.

Thanks for all the input, but lets stop arguing about the power, I easily have enough, don't forget I can add som high octane and turn it up to 1200+ hp at the touch of a button, so the power is no concern whatsoever :D .

camcojb 08-13-2006 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nitrorocket
I can do close to 150 mph from a standing stop in only a 1/4 mile right now, that is why I was figuring I could do another 50 mph in an additional 1/2 mile. I may take a mile to reach 200 mph, but I can surely do it as the car sits in my garage right now

This is where you and I will disagree. Nothing to do with horsepower, I don't think the car would hit 200 mph as it sits. Somewhere on the way up to 200 mph I'm thinking the car will turn into a plane, or become so scary that you'll get out of the throttle.

You're welcome to prove me wrong, but I hope you don't try until you research what will keep the car on the ground at that speed.

Jody

mazspeed 08-13-2006 08:46 PM

Well my 2 cents.
I think some of the people here should not bash his power numbers. I think a bunch of us have seen the videos of his dyno pulls before. The car makes serious power. Now 200mph is a serious number. It's not just 50mph from 150, it's a whole different planet. The fastest I have ever gone was 175 in a modified Datsun Scarab. The difference between 150 and 175 was incredible. It's not just 25 mph, it's the difference x 10. The car that we were piloting was a highly modified car in it's day. This was 15 years ago. The amount of suspension work frame work and body work that had to be done to go 175 was 10 times more extensive then it is to go 150 mph. I went 145-150 many times while racing the first gen rx-7's and we had to really get the car down, and get the suspension down to make sure we didn't have tail or front end lift. Nitro, I think you have the power to do it, but you may not have the car. It takes a lot of prep on the suspension side to get that down, including many under body mods to get it from lifting. Like Charlie said, Big Red is a nascar chassis covered by a 69 camaro. It was built and designed to go 220mph. Your car is not. I think you would end up killing yourself if you tried to get that car to 200 mph right now. First off you should research the air drag on the car, and or if you can, take the car someplace to get the coefficient of drag and see what that tells you. For all we know your car may fly at 165 or it may just stick on the ground. Who knows but do you really want to be the crash test person at those speeds? Also you should have a nascar style cage to stiffen it up and protect you. If I was you and had a real bug for this, I would just build a car that did this very thing.
Also if you have family or kids, you should consider them before doing a stunt like this.

nitrorocket 08-13-2006 08:53 PM

Would the car be dangerous, possibly yes, but I have the power and I believe if I stayed in it it would hit 200 mph without flipping :_paranoid .
There is many a drag car like 57 Chevys, Novas, Chevelles, Camaro's, etc, that hit 200 mph in the quarter mile in th outlaw and modified superstreet classes, Most dont even have an air dam anything more than factory. "Bigred" drove at 220 mph and it did not look like he had alot going on for aerodynamics??? Scavos 69 camaro is doing 200 mph with no air dam or other body mods. He is doing that from a dead stop to a quarter mile! :thumbsup:

When the time comes, I will change a few things and start creeping up and see how it behaves, I hope I still have time to do it this year. :unibrow:

mazspeed 08-13-2006 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nitrorocket
Would the car be dangerous, possibly yes, but I have the power and I believe if I stayed in it it would hit 200 mph without flipping :_paranoid .
There is many a drag car like 57 Chevys, Novas, Chevelles, Camaro's, etc, that hit 200 mph in the quarter mile in th outlaw and modified superstreet classes, Most dont even have an air dam anything more than factory. "Bigred" drove at 220 mph and it did not look like he had alot going on for aerodynamics??? Scavos 69 camaro is doing 200 mph with no air dam or other body mods. He is doing that from a dead stop to a quarter mile! :thumbsup:

When the time comes, I will change a few things and start creeping up and see how it behaves, I hope I still have time to do it this year. :unibrow:

Nitro, I'm saying this because I kind of know, but I'm no 200mph expert by any means, but I do know racing and speed. The cars that do this are HIGHLY MODIFIED. Your car is not modified for this, and yes these quarter mile cars have these giant rear wings and front spoilers and have the front down and the rear up to push the body down and massive cages. Your car has none of these things. Big Red does have underbody mods, and a whole lot of other mods for this exact thing. If you went out tomorrow and tried this, you and your car would be gone. Going on a quick blast to 150 is easy, holding it and going higher is flat out different.

camcojb 08-13-2006 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nitrorocket
Would the car be dangerous, possibly yes, but I have the power and I believe if I stayed in it it would hit 200 mph without flipping :_paranoid .
There is many a drag car like 57 Chevys, Novas, Chevelles, Camaro's, etc, that hit 200 mph in the quarter mile in th outlaw and modified superstreet classes, Most dont even have an air dam anything more than factory. "Bigred" drove at 220 mph and it did not look like he had alot going on for aerodynamics??? Scavos 69 camaro is doing 200 mph with no air dam or other body mods. He is doing that from a dead stop to a quarter mile! :thumbsup:

When the time comes, I will change a few things and start creeping up and see how it behaves, I hope I still have time to do it this year. :unibrow:

Alrighty then, good luck with that. :eek: You ain't listening and I'm getting tired of trying to explain. But a quick re-cap:

The 200 MPH outlaw cars I've seen are all modded, absolutely on the ground, etc.

Big Red is a full tube chassis with a cut/sectioned 69 Camaro body on it. Looks stock, that was the idea. About as stock as a Nascar "stock" car.

Scavos car is way lower than yours, especially up front to keep air out from under it. Likely has some other mods to let air out where it isn't wanted. Don't think it could be driven much on the street at it's ride height.

Jody

nitrorocket 08-13-2006 09:33 PM

I here what your saying, and I am not saying my car would be solid as a rock at that speed, However, it would get there. I just need to make it safe. I am sure after the new adjustable shocks and springs, along with the adjustable sway bar, the car would feel pretty safe.

http://10wideracing.com/gallery/muscle

Here is a few pages of 200 mph cars, Scavos, Brian Metz, Bob Hood, and many others, I have seen these cars run and they do not get airborne. They are accelerating with almost 2000 hp trying to lift the car and make it airborn and they do not. They have no air dams or body mods, some only sit about 1" lower then my car, some do NOT. Anyone of these cars would need more work to sustain that speed, just like mine.

Anyway, back to the original fricken question.... What do you guys do to your cars to hit these speeds and have the car real stable. What shocks, spring rates, sway bars, etc?? :)

awr68 08-13-2006 09:40 PM

Big Red has it's front clip (body panels) tipped down a couple degrees for added down force, take a look at the door to fender gaps.

You clearly aren't listening to these guys....you should before you hurt yourself!!

If you don't have a full cage and are still considering this you are...well in kind words, stupid!! Take a look at Hot Rods to Hell's site for the pics of the Chevelle that went of course at speed, the full cage saved their lives.

Please don't get in over your head, do the needed research and acheve your goal the right way...by either building another car or making the needed changes to this one to make it safe. The question isn't can you do it (I hope you do!), as much as will you do it the right way.

And if you have a wife and kids PLEASE stop driving 150 on the on ramps, go to the drag strip! Take it from a guy that used to ride 1000cc sport bikes way to fast on the street, it's not as cool as you think! Go to the track for EVERYONE'S safety!!!!!!!!

MSchu 08-13-2006 09:40 PM

This is one of the funnier threads in awhile. Go read about the Hot Rod Camaro or Thacker and Shine's roadster trying to break 200 @ Bonneville. Those are two of the more documented accounts of trying to break 200 I can remember. Hell go to B'ville and watch for yourself. If it were as simple as horsepower+stomp the go-pedal=200 mph, then everyone would have one of those coveted red hats. :rolleyes:

rocketman 08-13-2006 09:45 PM

One thing about those cars all are race cars.and have you ever seen a 10.5 car crash at the far end of the track,because they aren't stable at 200 in 1/4,they dance around something terrible.


You are going to need about 3-4 inch ride height,soft springs and shocks to force the car down at higher speeds.and a big sway bar.

mazspeed 08-13-2006 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nitrorocket
I here what your saying, and I am not saying my car would be solid as a rock at that speed, However, it would get there. I just need to make it safe. I am sure after the new adjustable shocks and springs, along with the adjustable sway bar, the car would feel pretty safe.

http://10wideracing.com/gallery/muscle

Those are quartermile cars, not cars designed to cruse at 200mph. You are not paying attention to logic here. It's way more then a few suspension mods. If you really try this, you're risking your life. Seriously.

Damn True 08-13-2006 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rocketman


You are going to need about 3-4 inch ride height,soft springs and shocks to force the car down at higher speeds.and a big sway bar.


Both of which are antithetical to stability and control on irregular surfaces at high speeds or where any change of direction might occur.

See how sticky this can be?

DIG THIS a link to the CLR going ass over tea-kettle on the mulsanne straight. Keep in mind that the body there was designed by the finest minds Daimler-Benz employs. It still flipped due to a combination of a little turbulence and a relatively gentle bump in the road.....@ 200+

That was no 35 year old passenger car. It was, at the time one of the most advanced race cars on the planet.

Your ref to Pro-mod cars is silly. Have you ever seen one? They are anything but stock bodies. The rake of the hood provides in effect a GIANT air dam forcing the front end down. You ever see one lose a cylinder or two on one bank? When that happens the cars veer hard opposite the lost cylinder because the zoomies provide downforce to the front end. The sail panels on those bodies are pulled in to get more air onto the HUGE spoiler with vertical stabs.

The body on your car lacks all of those features.

Again refrencing the CLR read this: http://www.mulsannescorner.com/techarticle1.htm and ask yourself if the profile of your car is better or worse in terms of creating lift than a CLR?

Matt@Lateral Dynamics 08-14-2006 12:17 AM

Quote:

As far as safety, It is just more of a daily driver type street car that I go to shows in, but I like to play around. That would really suck If I needed safety equipment.... I never thought of that!
In context, this quote is one of the more funny things I've read on the internet. Thanks for that.

I say go for it. What's the worst that could happen?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AejuZMbq4c

(Edit) True, I was searching for it as you were editing your post. :) It's the first thing that came to mind when I read the first post.

ShawnF 08-14-2006 02:39 AM

I was wanting to do the same thing a year or so ago. I have a 94" mustang cobra (Don't shoot me I also have a 55 PT belair I'm building) with a dart based sbf 356 cubic inch with all the goodies billet bottom end, afr heads, solid roller, jesel setup, Fast XFI, etc... and a 88mm turbocharger. This is in a car that has every suspension piece that maximum motorsports makes (killer mustang suspension). I had talked to a few guys that had run their cars at serious speeds and was definately educated on the facts of aero and downforce. Like you "Nitrorocket" I thought it would be no big deal to do 200mph (1000+ rwhp) and I had already gone 155 or so with a small turbo and stock motor. When I realized what it would take to do 200mph I was shocked. Just look at the newer cars that are 200mph capable or close and you'll be amazed at what they have. It takes finesse to get a car that fast and be able to be controlled. These cars all have some major things in common besides a slippery outside.. They all have ways to get air out from under the car and prevent most air from getting there in the first place. These cars have good downforce and not a lot of frontal area. I think you could get your chevelle to do it but go drive a new Z06 or even a srt10 viper and then study the car a little and you'll understand what I am saying. The horsepower is there the other larger part to the equation will take some serious work. Good luck

nitrorocket 08-14-2006 07:52 AM

Look, I am asking what people have done to do this as far as parts wise and or some little tricks. First, everyone was saying I do not have the power, I DO. Second, people think I am going to go airborne trying, I posted a link showing pages worth of 100 mph cars that have NOTHING done to the body to hit those speeds, just raw power. I am no idiot and if I thought this was so dam easy, I would hop in right now ant try to go 200, I put this post asking what tricks and or parts people are using. All most are saying is WOW, your gonna flip, that takes power, you need to do alot, It can't be done, turn the car into a space ship! This does not help me get to my goal.

And quit talking like I am wreckless. I want to hear from one person on this board who has not gone through the gears down an on ramp or on a nice freeway clearing at least once, either for fun, showing off, or tuning! Heck, people are talking about going 180 on a bike on the street!
I hit 150 mph and slow back down to 65 by the time I am done with the on ramp. The ramp I use is a little over half mile long, nothing to hit, nobody there that can get hurt. That sure is hell is safer then most crap I see on the internet going 150 mph through traffic and it takes them about a mile to do that, That is dangerous!

------------------------------------
I know it will take lots of experimenting and adjustments to hit 200 or close to that safely, and that is what I want to know.

I DO NOT WANT TO SEE ONE MORE REPLY SAYING I DO NOT HAVE ENOUGH POWER OR THAT I WILL BE FLIPPING!

So what do you think, most of you have seen pics of the car, should I lower it more? What are the best shocks/springs you have used? Should I keep the ass end higher then the front??? What do you think?

Anyone going to offer info or links to what I want to do with my car?

Thank you!

clill 08-14-2006 08:15 AM

Asking advise from a bunch of guys that have not gone 200 is probably not going to be very productive. I would consult Kurt at Wheel 2 Wheel.

nitrorocket 08-14-2006 08:18 AM

I though this would be the board. With all the cars on here lowered to the ground, every aftermarket piece in the world, top of the line wheels and tires, even some with wings and spoilers, I figured more people would be going 150-200 mph on here with there cars???

MarkM66 08-14-2006 08:23 AM

Hell, if you want to try it, try it. I'd like to hear the results.

Be aware of your Critical Driveshaft Speed before you put an overdrive in that thing.

Probably why most high speed cars use 1:1 with high ratio rear end gears instead of 4:11's with a .50 overdrive.

nitrorocket 08-14-2006 08:41 AM

Good point, I will have to check That out?? Maybe I would be better off with a gearvendors UNDERDRIVE with the 1' shorter driveshaft it requires. This would allow me to put a 2.73 gear in the car but still accelerate normal while having the optin the put it back to 1:1. I was hoping the 4l80 would be the ticket though. I will have to Contact Dennys to see what the MMC driveshaft is rated for on critical speed! If I remember it is 7,xxx something??

Steve Chryssos 08-14-2006 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSchu
This is one of the funnier threads in awhile. Go read about the Hot Rod Camaro or Thacker and Shine's roadster trying to break 200 @ Bonneville. Those are two of the more documented accounts of trying to break 200 I can remember. Hell go to B'ville and watch for yourself. If it were as simple as horsepower+stomp the go-pedal=200 mph, then everyone would have one of those coveted red hats. :rolleyes:

That's true. I was there the first year. We tried everything--including draining a little oil out of the pan to find speed. Never mind 150 to 200, there's a huge money and effort gap between 180 and 200.

camcojb 08-14-2006 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nitrorocket
Look, I am asking what people have done to do this as far as parts wise and or some little tricks. First, everyone was saying I do not have the power, I DO. Second, people think I am going to go airborne trying, I posted a link showing pages worth of 100 mph cars that have NOTHING done to the body to hit those speeds, just raw power. I am no idiot and if I thought this was so dam easy, I would hop in right now ant try to go 200, I put this post asking what tricks and or parts people are using. All most are saying is WOW, your gonna flip, that takes power, you need to do alot, It can't be done, turn the car into a space ship! This does not help me get to my goal.

And quit talking like I am wreckless. I want to hear from one person on this board who has not gone through the gears down an on ramp or on a nice freeway clearing at least once, either for fun, showing off, or tuning! Heck, people are talking about going 180 on a bike on the street!
I hit 150 mph and slow back down to 65 by the time I am done with the on ramp. The ramp I use is a little over half mile long, nothing to hit, nobody there that can get hurt. That sure is hell is safer then most crap I see on the internet going 150 mph through traffic and it takes them about a mile to do that, That is dangerous!

------------------------------------
I know it will take lots of experimenting and adjustments to hit 200 or close to that safely, and that is what I want to know.

I DO NOT WANT TO SEE ONE MORE REPLY SAYING I DO NOT HAVE ENOUGH POWER OR THAT I WILL BE FLIPPING!

So what do you think, most of you have seen pics of the car, should I lower it more? What are the best shocks/springs you have used? Should I keep the ass end higher then the front??? What do you think?

You are dangerous, at least to yourself. You plan on doing this on the street. No safety equipment, never even considered it by your quote:

"As far as safety, It is just more of a daily driver type street car that I go to shows in, but I like to play around. That would really suck If I needed safety equipment.... I never thought of that! ":eek:

You have not given a single example of a car like yours that has done it without something that holds it on the ground. Every car you listed is either 2" off the ground up front, has a huge wedge built into the front/rear height, or is an all-out race car with air management built into it, but a stockish "looking" body.

You keep asking for shock and spring recommendations, and are totally ignoring everything else. What are you going to do with the grill area? That will create a ton of lift in the front end. You have no front spoiler, are you going to run the front sheetmetal a couple inches off the ground to compensate?

Do you have tires that can run 200 mph? As mentioned before, what driveshaft do you have and what is it's max rated rpm? And don't think because it's a trick 3-4" aluminum aftermarket unit it's fine. I'm amazed how low the max rated rpm is on those things, usually under 8000 rpms. Sounds fine until you put the car in overdive where .33 over means you can't exceed 6000 engine rpms, and that's only if yours is that high; most are less.

All these things and more have been pointed out, but you don't want to hear them; you want shock and spring recommendations, and then off you go. :wow:

My advice is to get ahold of the guys who run Bonneville, and talk to the guys running 200 mph in stock bodied cars. Find out what mods they needed to keep the car planted. It will obviously surprise you as you think your car can do it right now (your quote). If you can get past all the safety things they've installed which you won't run, there should be a lot of good info as far as what they did to compensate for the lift up front, air under the car lifting the rear, etc. These are the "been there, done that" guys and who you need to speak with.

Good luck. I'd say take it to the track but you aren't gonna go for that one; after all, you aren't dangerous!:rofl:

Jody

dqhemi 08-14-2006 08:59 AM

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/...6/ed830aaa.jpg

I used to run in the Unlimited Division of Open Road Races like the Silver State Classic and Pony Express in a 97 Mustang Cobra that would run 205 MPH. We campaigned the car for a number of years and doing 200 MPH is no small task, increasing the top speeds incrementally. Races were 90 to 120 miles in length on closed sections of public highways.

If you're seriously considering this and plan on being around to talk about it, you need to do it in steps. Driving my car at 150 vs 185 vs 200 were all very different. Better learn some about aerodynamics, safety equipment, tires, suspension, driveline and more. We would basically rebuild the car eveery year almsot completely to make it faster the following. Every race you learn something and there are very few who can tell you what does and doesn't work.

Biggest risk is tires going this fast. Almost every bad accident at those speeds has been tire related and since the explorer debacle, none of the tire companies will give out info anymore.

Biggest issue doing this type of stuff is most people under-estimate what it really takes, what's required to do it (reasonably) safely and many get themselves in way over their heads without realizing it.

There used to be quite alot of press on what I was doing, there's still a couple things floating around the internet:

http://www.mustang50magazine.com/fea...ehicles/18758/

http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/...ory/cobra.html

Magazines would never cover any of the aero information. We'd get our hands on some aero data and model components based on it including calculating air foil downforce at target speed vs. lift and develop components fromt that.

I have in car video and drive by video at over 200 MPH in my Cobra if someone can host it.

Very likely we'll build another car for this kind of fun. I'd want to do it in a platform that's never gone that fast as that's half the fun! Project may start in a wind tunnel this time and I already know tires will be the biggest challenge.

John Buscema
XV Motorsports
www.xvmotorsports.com

Steve Chryssos 08-14-2006 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkM66
Hell, if you want to try it, try it. I'd like to hear the results.

Be aware of your Critical Driveshaft Speed before you put an overdrive in that thing.

Probably why most high speed cars use 1:1 with high ratio rear end gears instead of 4:11's with a .50 overdrive.

That's the most intelligent post in this thread. Overdrive is not really intended for top speed use.

So--just brainstorming here--you would make the following changes:
-Higher rate springs.
-Reduced ride height.
-Different tires (unless you have YR-minimum rated tires already)
-Different wheels (the downward forces applied to your wheel's hubs at that speed are extreme. You want something that is strong and has minimal runout)
-Aero aids designed to direct air up and over the car and add downforce--which must be overcome by more power.
-An approved roll cage (which will enhance stability as well as add safety) -Approved seat and safety gear.
-Increased caster.
-Serious brakes with cooling ducts.
-Higher final drive ratio (lower numerical).
-A roll of 200mph tape (Otherwise your windshield trim will fly off and your underhood area will build excessive pressure).
-A smooth, straight, long, unpopulated stretch of road.
-Someone who is crazy or dumb enough to ride shotgun. (not really necessary, but hey we're just bench racing here, right? Why waste the opportunity to share the moment with someone you love.)
-A tail wind
-A get out of jail free card
-A videographer or two (we wanna see)
-And a horse shoe up your ass (for good luck)

Steve Chryssos 08-14-2006 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by camcojb
....My advice is to get ahold of the guys who run Bonneville, and talk to the guys running 200 mph in stock bodied cars. Find out what mods they needed to keep the car planted....
Jody

Bonneville is a good start, but the conditions are entirely different. Salt and asphalt are light years apart in terms of traction. The open road race sanctioning bodies would prove to be a better source. The SCTA can really only help in terms of structural/safety issues.

mazspeed 08-14-2006 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nitrorocket

And quit talking like I am wreckless. I want to hear from one person on this board who has not gone through the gears down an on ramp or on a nice freeway clearing at least once, either for fun, showing off, or tuning! Heck, people are talking about going 180 on a bike on the street!
I hit 150 mph and slow back down to 65 by the time I am done with the on ramp. The ramp I use is a little over half mile long, nothing to hit, nobody there that can get hurt. That sure is hell is safer then most crap I see on the internet going 150 mph through traffic and it takes them about a mile to do that, That is dangerous!
------------------------------------

This has to be the dumbest post I have seen on these boards. Going though the gears on a freeway off ramp is not like going 200mph on the public streets. Are your brains made of soy sauce? The idiots on the bikes that do this are not much smarter then you have demonstrated to us on this insane thread. Your stupidity is a danger to yourself and others. I refuse to help anyone who thinks this is a good idea.
It's crap like this that give people with muscle cars a bad name.

dqhemi 08-14-2006 09:25 AM

One more thought, no way no how would I be going in that speed range without a full cage, a REAL racing seat mounted to the cage, full safety equipment, window nets or arm restraints, fire system, REAL race quality wheels,full safety gear and a car that was sorted out for those speeds.

John Buscema
XV Motorsports
www.xvmotorsports.com

camcojb 08-14-2006 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by streetfytr68
Bonneville is a good start, but the conditions are entirely different. Salt and asphalt are light years apart in terms of traction. The open road race sanctioning bodies would prove to be a better source. The SCTA can really only help in terms of structural/safety issues.

True, I was thinking in terms of air management.

Jody

dqhemi 08-14-2006 09:42 AM

.....Some note on how we did this....
-Higher rate springs. ...Need more than that. We had shocks valved for the application.
-Reduced ride height. ...Lower reduces frontal area and reducing drag is the most important thing to do....
-Different tires (unless you have YR-minimum rated tires already) ....Very few tires will last for any kind of distance at those speeds. In some cases, certain sizes of specific tire models are built differently for OE applications. Tires we ran on were confirmed to be good for over 200. We only ran nitrogen in the tires. You need real race quality wheels. You must run metal valve stem - not rubber - or forces may cause a failure of the stem....
-Different wheels (the downward forces applied to your wheel's hubs at that speed are extreme. You want something that is strong and has minimal runout). ----To go really fast you don't want to create downforce, just eliminate lift, which will reduce drag....
-Aero aids designed to direct air up and over the car and add downforce--which must be overcome by more power. ---- Aero at those speeds is not just over the car, you need to look at internal aero as well as what goes on under the car. ------
-An approved roll cage (which will enhance stability as well as add safety) -Approved seat and safety gear. ---This needs to be doen correctly, attaching the seat to the cage is critical and must be done right as well. Swing out door bars and the like are asking for trouble----
-Increased caster.
-Serious brakes with cooling ducts. ---You don't use your brakes at those speeds, or rather it's just one stop at the end. Saying another way, the aero forces are huge, when you lift the car slows dramatically just from the drag. So only place you use the brakes is when you come to a full stop, ducts aren't necessary and can also create more drag.....
-Higher final drive ratio (lower numerical). ---With overdrive, and yes you need to calculate driveshaft RPM. We only used carbon fiber shafts for real high speeds and they are part fo the safety equipment if you know what happens to them in a crash-----
-A roll of 200mph tape (Otherwise your windshield trim will fly off and your underhood area will build excessive pressure). ---Yes and no. You want to tape all the seems to smooth all the surfaces. We removed any trim that might induce drag. Get rid of side mirrors too. Not too hard to calculate frontal area, estimate drag and see how much HP it takes to run the mirrors at 200 MPH....
-A smooth, straight, long, unpopulated stretch of road. ---Not for me on that way too dangerous. Open road races you can go as fast as you want with safety crews, run on a public hoghway, have the local police cheering you on and people around you can learn from, if you know who to listen to.....
-Someone who is crazy or dumb enough to ride shotgun. (not really necessary, but hey we're just bench racing here, right? Why waste the opportunity to share the moment with someone you love.) ---I always ran with a navigator. They let you know what's coming up (most of the time)----
-A tail wind
-A get out of jail free card
-A videographer or two (we wanna see)
-And a horse shoe up your ass (for good luck)

John Buscema
XV Motorsports
www.xvmotorsorts.com

Damn True 08-14-2006 09:46 AM

You claim to routinely accelerate to 150mph on a freeway on-ramp and yet you claim that your aren't wreckless? :rofl:

a) Quit doing that stuff on public roads. This hobby does not need our own version of the Malibu Enzo wreck http://www.wreckedexotics.com/special/enzo/

b) Please confine these sort of efforts to closed competition venues. This will at least ensure you are using the minimum safety equipment and properly rated tires.

c) Build up your efforts in small bites. You want to find out how the car behaves at 160 BEFORE you are going 170. Because if you break through some kind of wierd behavior, you still have to go back throught that speed range again. This is why SCTA and the open road organizations make their participants start in the lower speed ranges before they allow them to enter unlimited classes.

d) When asking people for advice regarding something like this it is in poor form to give them lip when they voice concern for your safety and those around you.

dqhemi 08-14-2006 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkM66
Hell, if you want to try it, try it. I'd like to hear the results.

Be aware of your Critical Driveshaft Speed before you put an overdrive in that thing.

Probably why most high speed cars use 1:1 with high ratio rear end gears instead of 4:11's with a .50 overdrive.

Actually, virtually all the guys I knew going really fast ran overdrive, including myself. I ended up running a close ratio T-56 6-speed w/ 3.08's in the rear and never had a problem. Clutches are a bit of a challenge.

Driveshaft RPM definitely is important. I always ran a safety loop (which rules didn't require) and ended up running a carbon fiber shaft which is much safer in a crash as they simply disintgrate.

John Buscema
XV Motorsports
www.xvmotorsports.com

nitrorocket 08-14-2006 10:34 AM

I contacted Dennys on my driveshaft, they say it is good to go, especially after shortened for the overdrive. I run a 3.42 gear now and will probably just try that.

I run BFG Comp TA/ZR Tires right now so they are safe.

I will start looking into making some type of a front air dam setup that is possibly removable so I can take it off when not racing, otherwise it would get ripped off every time I go through a drivethrough.

Do the high speed guys use quick ratio steering boxes? I would think this would be bad at high speeds.

Thanks for some of the last few posts, very informative!



And for those of you who think I am a moron, Shut up! How many bikes run roll cages??? You are not dangerous if you don't have a cage and go 150 mph, would it be safer in case of an incident... Yes, of course! I am not any more dangerous going 150 mph in my car then every bike in the world, I would say I am safer in my car as it sits then on a bike. So if every bike rider crazy for going 150 mph with no cage?? All they have is a helmet, jacket, and boots!

Point is My car is very safe for what I have been doing, I dont have a roll cage, but everything else is up to standards, good tires, brakes, sfi approved parts, etc.

AND...Mazspeed...Who said I would be going 200 mph on public streets?? I said I want to start doing some type of road racing! Did you mis understand me?? So far I have not done anything that anyone on this board has not doen on the street, I go through the gears on an on ramp..Is that a big deal?? Have you not?? I drive slower than most people on a regular basis and have a clean record. I am not a wreckless driver by any means, I am putting nobody in danger. Is this understandable??


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