ouch
 

that cage is gaurenteed sever injury if your ever t boned your heads going to slam that side bar

I'm not sure there is a correct answer here.
I am tring to build a street car that will feel at home on the track...so I installed a 4-point roll bar and harnesses. I guess I will have to add padding to the bars so my son is safe in the back seat. I don't really like the look of padding...but if I can make it safer for him then so be it!

To All:

I've retracted this post because of time constraints, and the complications associated with this subject.

Without really going into depth completely, and boring the hell out of everyone, at this time it is best to drop the arguments that were being made one way or the other.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled program.

Thanks for your understanding.

Ty

Couple things.

BSCI Dual Durometer Padding is the padding you want to get. It's the best out there.

There have been some very good points made on this subject so far. I'd like to make one more. A roll cage is only one part of a system. The other two parts are a quality seat and the harness. You really do need all three parts for the system to be safe for you, and safe as far as it doing it's job. With a crap seat and a lap belt, the cage will probably kill you if you get in a bad wreck. That doesn't help anyone. But, it's also not the cages fault. You didn't stay where your suppose to be, you went flying all around. That's where the QUALITY seat and Harness come in to play. If your held in place so you can't fly around, the cage is no longer a danger to you. The system is complete.

And any part of a cage that any part of your body might be able to come in contact with, needs to be padded.


Kevin

Wow guys, great thread.

A bit of history about me....

Raced dirt circle track for the past 10 years or so.

New hobby, I bought a 68 from a friend that the sheetmetal is mostly restored and I was planning on turning it into a Trans Am Race Replica Car. So my dilema now after reading all these posts..... wow, now what should I do. Without a cage, my project is a bust!

These were my plans. I have a 10 pt. cage being installed, although my plans were to leave the back seat in and I wasn't going to have the cross bar installed simply for the safety of any rear passengers, so I guess subconciously I was already thinking of this discussion, just didn't realize it. In all the haste, didn't even consider my safety or my passengers safety in front.

I'm really stuck of what to do.

This would necessarily be a daily driver, primarily car shows and "roll ins" But even at that, there was never a though of any safety equipment with the exception of belts.

Like I said, its a great thread, just feels like someone pizzed in my oatmeal.

I'm stuck right now....... hmmmmm......

Any insight?

Shawn

Visit us at: www.geocities.com/sjrracing

i installed a 4pt roll bar in my duster cuz i want my car to be a daily driver but also track worthy. Since i will be the only one in the car 95% of the time i took out rear seat. i'm putting in a 4pt harness and even though they are not recommend for the street i think they'll be safer over the original lap belts.

Just my opinion if there is a roll bar/cage in the car then there shouldn't be more than a driver and passenger seat. I dont have kids, but if i did i would stick them in a newer vehicle with airbags and other safety features until they were fully developed to ride in a caged car.

Jon

removable rear cross bar? Welded in then cut and set up a bolt in system...

I can add a little input to this thread that people my find interesting.

I owned one of the 10 syclones that Marlboro gave away. These trucks were built with a Kevlar/Carbon Fiber removable Targa Roof section.

All ten of the trucks were built by ASC and they all had to be DOT Legal. What I found interesting is some of the things they did.

A-Pillar on the Cab (windshield area ) was filled with liquid Steel.

A-Pillar from the floor up was plated with ?? guage steel ( couldn't tell )

B-Billar was also plated and that same thickness plate. It ran all the way across the roof and tied the roof and two pillars together.

The center support similar to a T-top roof was also plated with the same thickness steel going to the windshield.

The area above the windshield all the way across the top was also filled with liquid steel.

Doors pillars were filled with Liquid steel & plated.

For a truck that had a good chunk of it's roof removed it was rock solid.

http://www.sportmachines.com/albums/...9/2879_004.jpg

So moving forward to my truck - Syborg

Dave (Compfab.com) suggested that we only do a 6 point cage for a street driven vehicle. Since I have no concern of passing tech the goal would be to stiffen the chassis and keep it from killing me in an accident.

The cage it welded to the floor above body mounts and also bolted to the chassis in 4 locations. It very easy to get in and out of this truck and in the event of a side impact the side-bar sits low enough that it should make contact with the seat and not my torso.

[IMG]http://www.syborgtwinturbo.com/albums/Build/2006_03_10_020.jpg
[/IMG]

http://www.syborgtwinturbo.com/album..._03_10_023.jpg

http://www.syborgtwinturbo.com/album..._03_10_027.jpg

My car will be driven on the street but primarily track day and maybe show if ever gets that nice........also a gaol of running silver state. So for Me I'm not following any given set of rules. I did follow SCCA's diameter/per vehicle weight rule so the bar is 1.75" .120 DOM. I'm doing basically a full cage tying into front and rear suspension for full chassis rigidity. No back seat so no worries. Inside the car the bars will be as close to body as possible running along A-pillars and through dash with front cross bar at fire wall. For the doors I was planning on something very similar to the Syclone above. That to Me seems to be the only way to get the benefits of a bar there while lower the PITA factor when getting in and out. My vehicle will have a braced race type seat (haven't decided tilt back or no tilt yet) but will be mounted as low as possible for head to bar clearance and have at least a 4 point harness. If You've noticed most Touring car race cars the drivers head just sticks up over the door. So I believe seat height is just as an importaint part of the cage discussion as anything.

Just orderd the tubing this week so I'll post some pics once We get going on that.

dont midn the rust...

but heres a pic of how i layed mine out for 8.50 legal.. (converting to a 25.5)

this is an Sonoma, small truck but TONS of room

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...t/100_1447.jpg

seriously dont mind the rust haha.

Another thing with a cage is if you do get in an accident on the street, they may not be able to get you out very easily.

On the street, it's true, the MAIN purpose to cage is for structural rigidness, and any safety advantage would be secondary. Remember, OEs make car to absorb impact, not withstand it.

I like the idea of hiding as much as you can behind/in the body panels, though most are correct that there will be compromises. Monoque & 'space' frame technologies are just that, and you could take that a step further by increasing the thickness of existing metals used in a body/chassis. For example, look at a 'ghost' image or 3D of a Volvo chassis/frame.

With like a 10 second car or better, if you wreck on the street at speed, not much short of bags & belts are going to help (not much help), and you most likely will die. Even with bags & belts, many people die daily in car accidents in 'regular' cars. Your chances are going to be better though if the car absorbs as much of the impact as possible.

Me, personally, there's only so much chassis stiffening I'm willing to do (cost, weight, practical), and when it comes to safety on the street, I guess I'll take my chances like the next guy.

.

This is a very interesting thread. I am questioning putting a cage in my car for several reasons and this just added to it. My problem is that I plan on running maybe a low 11 high 10 in the 1/4 so I believe I need one if I want to be able to go to the track and not be kicked out. Ahhh the dilemmas of life.

Here is a thought for the people who just want the structural rigidity and do'nt necessarily need the cage. syborg tt was talking about his truck where they used liquid steel to fill in voids to make it more rigid and it reminded me of a article I read where racers in japan were using a two part spray foam insulation and putting in cavities in their cars to stiffen the chassis. Maybe this would solve some of the problems by just using the spray foam like the liquid steel.

This is an industrial spray foam and is like a two part that is mixed when it is sprayed not the stuff you buy in a can at Wal-Mart.

I did the spray foam trick with My Chevelle about six years ago. I can't say I felt any change in structural rigidity however it make a noticable difference in sound deadening with minimal weight gain. I put in dead areas in between panels, like below the C-pillar, inside the brace below the B-pillar area and some of the kick panel area. I noticed a decrease in "drone" noise when on the highway.

One thing I don't know if it has been mentioned already but I believe it to be fairly importaint in any vehicle with a cage is to improve how the seats mount. Found small bolts through sheet metal wont be enough to hold your strapped in but in place when the rest of the car is no longer flexing or crumpling. If your seat tears loose a big headache will follow.

Pull up next to a cop at a stop light and give him a thumbs up with a helmet on!

Yes, I have been seen that vehicles with bigger hp w/o roll cage, :wow: I would paranoid while driving on bigger HP:drive W/O roll cage: :drive: .

I was also going to use a 4pt roll cage with removeable crossbar. The main reason was to be able to be able to have the shoulder harnesses mount to the crossbar when the crossbar is in for track and just use the lap belt part of the camlock harness when I still want to use the back seat (and still HAVE a backseat).

Does anyone understand my way of thinking here?

When your car will be half street use and half track use, it is an option.

And while I am at it, anyone have a recommended manufacturer of
a chromoly cage for E-bodies??? (Cuda/Challenger)

Thanks

this is my first car i'm rebuilding and putting a 4pt roll bar in but i wouldn't feel safe with a roll bar that isn't welded together. having bolts to hold pieces or a piece of roll bar in place seems sketchy due to if that bolt was to break, there could be some serious consequences. if you do put a bolt i would atleast put to bolts at each location so if one fails you still have a back up.

Ive driven street cars with cages. A legal to 10 seconds cage, if done right, can almost be like having no cage at all. Just takes the right parts and a well thought out install.
My current project will be way faster than 10 seconds. So I had an 8.50 legal setup installed. We are just finishing it up, and while its a bit more intrusive, my installer did a top rate job of keeping it out of the way (as much as possible) as well as making it safe for the speeds planned. Lots of work getting everything to fit together. When you cut the floor out of the car (to channel it over an aftermarket frame) NHRA rules require a bunch more work to make it legal. But the majority of the extra work is under the floor.
There are 3 things about street car cages that can cause problems. First is a crappy design/install that places the tubes in such a way that you are constantly banging some part of your body against them. A well designed cage will minimize this. Second is the cross bar. It can make it impossible to use the rear seat. Alston has some very nice hardware that makes a removeable cross bar possible. Lastly are the door bars. Lots of people use swing outs. I used them. Once. Rattled, PITA to open when in the seat, etc. This time we put removeable door bars in using the same Alston parts. If your not racing, you can leave the cross bar and door bars at home.