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-   -   Greg Weld's 65 Mustang fastback track car (https://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php?t=33796)

Vegas69 08-05-2014 07:28 PM
It's fun either way, just more fun when you outrun Gae.:peepwall:

GregWeld 08-05-2014 07:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sieg (Post 555846)
At T-Hill the sound meter is about 50 yards up the main straight from T-15 in the little building next to the fence in the pits. I believe what was happening to me in the Lotus was hitting the rev limiter in 3rd and the pop from the limiter spiked the meter. The motor/exhaust is quiet, add the wind noise from the open cockpit, and the motor pulls right through the limiter it's tough to gauge your shift point. A shift light would be handy in that little go kart.


You were with me when I bought the AiM Dash.... a shift light is in your future!

GregWeld 08-05-2014 07:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegas69 (Post 564189)
It's fun either way, just more fun when you outrun Gae.:peepwall:



That was the easy part. Since he couldn't catch or pass me - he'll rely on the one lap time that was faster than mine. The proof however - was the old fart pulling away from the orange crate.

Ron Sutton 08-05-2014 08:40 PM
Hey Guys ! I'll throw in a few tech comments ... just so we can say we're talking about cars & not having a BS Session. :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GregWeld (Post 564188)
Times are irrelevant in track days... mostly because no two cars are anywhere near "equal". Different motors - different size tires - different compound tires... That's just jerking off talk. The Lotus with it's 1.8 liter motor was faster... and the Mustang with it's skinny tires was slower... only at the point of when Ron choose to time the laps.
There were very few clean laps where drivers could lay down a "best time" in the green group. I think Gae & Greg would have both posted faster lap times with fewer rolling chicanes on the track. But hey ... it was just a fun "club track day" ... and those slower cars have just as much right to be out there having a blast too.

When Gae was trying to chase me the Mustang pulled on him like he was dragging an anchor. Doesn't matter.... it's all just so much BS. There's dozens of cars and drivers out there that are FAR faster and there's an equal amount that are easily passed... I only pass people if they're slower than I am - but it's not the way I keep track of my "progress" as a driver or how well the car is working (or not). If people keep track of that kind of stuff - then they're not having much fun just enjoying the "event" and the people and their own car. There's no "Wally" at the end of the day... just a barbecue and a beer.
Several beers. :cheers:

When I pass someone -- I give them a friendly wave thanking them for letting me by.... and if I'm lucky enough to be able to be somewhat matched with someone - I'll go to their pit and thank them for letting me run with them. There's a guy with a 4 cylinder Turbo Thunderbird that runs regularly with us. He used to blow by me like I was in the wrong group... this time at Sonoma we ran several laps together - he pointed me by and I declined even though I was faster - I'd rather run and have fun with him - we each enjoyed the give and take - catching up or pulling away depending on which corner we were in. I then went to his trailer to thank him... he's a young guy and drives a great line... at Thunderhill this October - I promised him a session in the Lotus as he has admired it (even though we were running T-bird against Mustang). Given what he's driving - and his ability - he'd just rip the Lotus and I'd love to give him the chance. That's what makes this all fun.
That was a great session with you & the T-bird running together.

I don't really give a sh!t about lap times. On Saturday they were fast - on Sunday - for whatever reason - everyone was off by 2 to 4 seconds. Didn't feel like it - but that's what the watch said. Same people - same cars - different day. Weird.

I was watching the weather with an app on my phone. There was massive humidity in the air (79%). Around lunch the temperature was only 6° from dew point. Most guys know at dew point ... actual dew drops form on the ground (or track surface in our case). But not everyone knows anytime the moisture content in the air is high (humidity) and the temperature is cool ... there is moisture constantly being applied to the track surface by the air. I watch how far the temperature is from dew point. Anytime it is within 10° ... it will significantly affect both track grip & engine power output.

So it took away grip from the track & affected all the cars power outputs. Most fell off 3-4 seconds. Some more.


Greg from Aus 08-05-2014 09:18 PM
It was a great afternoon on Sunday, we finally made it. It's good to be able to put a face to a name, and the smack talk is great. Sorry we couldn't make it Saturday and meet the rest of the crew,

The funniest part was seeing Greg change the booster seat over from the Mustang to the Lotus :peepwall:

Track Junky 08-05-2014 09:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregWeld (Post 564192)
That was the easy part. Since he couldn't catch or pass me - he'll rely on the one lap time that was faster than mine. The proof however - was the old fart pulling away from the orange crate.
Wow!! OK, lets bring on the drama. :lol: I'm sure you've noticed I never brought up the lap time. I never rely on anyone with a stop watch or I-phone to time my laps. Not accurate enough for me. I have an AMB transponder on my car and its been on there since I started Time Trials 9 years ago. I normally run NASA or NCRC events. All I do is register my transponder when I sign up for the event and presto.....mine and everybody elses lap times are taped up somewhere downstairs beneath the timing tower after the session.
All I remember is catching up to Greg coming out of the carousel, he pulled me heading to turn 7, we ran down the esses and then he pulled off because of a fuel pressure issue.
It was a great day and my car was handling flawlessly. I was passing every single car in front of me........almost like I was running in a NASA HPDE 3 group. Lets be honest.....that is fun as hell!!
Either way....don't care. I love breaking Greg's balls and I had a great time at the track.
I'm always up for a challenge so if Greg really wants to give me a run for my money he'll grow a pair, get a transponder, and run with an ameature club with a bit more experience. :mock:

Vince@Meanstreets 08-05-2014 10:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Track Junky (Post 564205)
Wow!! OK, lets bring on the drama. :lol: I'm sure you've noticed I never brought up the lap time. I never rely on anyone with a stop watch or I-phone to time my laps. Not accurate enough for me. I have an AMB transponder on my car and its been on there since I started Time Trials 9 years ago. I normally run NASA or NCRC events. All I do is register my transponder when I sign up for the event and presto.....mine and everybody elses lap times are taped up somewhere downstairs beneath the timing tower after the session.
All I remember is catching up to Greg coming out of the carousel, he pulled me heading to turn 7, we ran down the esses and then he pulled off because of a fuel pressure issue.
It was a great day and my car was handling flawlessly. I was passing every single car in front of me........almost like I was running in a NASA HPDE 3 group. Lets be honest.....that is fun as hell!!
Either way....don't care. I love breaking Greg's balls and I had a great time at the track.
I'm always up for a challenge so if Greg really wants to give me a run for my money he'll grow a pair, get a transponder, and run with an ameature club with a bit more experience. :mock:
...and here we go..... no way your wife is gonna let you mortgage the house man. let it gooooo.

DBasher 08-05-2014 11:13 PM
Rebirth
 
Real interested to see what you two come up with as far as brakes and suspension. I imagine the wheels and tires are to clear brakes and get 0 scrub?

RSRT 3 link
Big bearing spindles
Penske or JRI coil overs

I hope I'm close on some of this, especially the 3 link. I'd love to see how it's packaged and tied in.

After talking with Sean (Hackster) this weekend in Portland and seeing his LS Volvo it got me thinking.....a motors a motor, it could care less what its haulin around. I say LS, that way I can bug you with even more questions later on!

:gitrdun:
Dan

GregWeld 08-06-2014 11:06 AM
Ron will chime in when the menu is set... right now - we're in the measuring "as is" mode... but for sure it's getting new shocks (JRI's) - spindles - big bearings... ball joints.. bigger brakes and that requires wheels and tires...

Rear end is up in the air at the moment. This is nothing but a track car... there's little point in spending a bunch of money if it's only an incremental difference. So it's a balance of what needs to be done for safety... and get some handling improvements as well.

The motor will be diagnosed and a determination will then be made depending on how hurt it is. Ron and I both agree that the car doesn't need more motor... it needs a RELIABLE motor... which this one has proved not to be.





Quote:
Originally Posted by DBasher (Post 564212)
Real interested to see what you two come up with as far as brakes and suspension. I imagine the wheels and tires are to clear brakes and get 0 scrub?

RSRT 3 link
Big bearing spindles
Penske or JRI coil overs

I hope I'm close on some of this, especially the 3 link. I'd love to see how it's packaged and tied in.

After talking with Sean (Hackster) this weekend in Portland and seeing his LS Volvo it got me thinking.....a motors a motor, it could care less what its haulin around. I say LS, that way I can bug you with even more questions later on!

:gitrdun:
Dan

GregWeld 08-06-2014 11:11 AM
I just like hanging with my friends... the times are what they are - that's just not my hang up.

It was a fun weekend and we all had a great time! Until some Aussies showed up and then the sh!t started flowing. Good thing Greg brought April so we had to keep it "clean". LOL


Once again Ron Sutton's help was invaluable.. and any of you guys that are actually somewhat serious about this stuff should re-evaluate where you choose to piss your money away... and start hiring Ron to help (instead of thinking you're going to get all his knowledge for free). He will do way more for your car and your driving skills than throwing parts at the car and hoping that works.






Quote:
Originally Posted by Track Junky (Post 564205)
Wow!! OK, lets bring on the drama. :lol: I'm sure you've noticed I never brought up the lap time. I never rely on anyone with a stop watch or I-phone to time my laps. Not accurate enough for me. I have an AMB transponder on my car and its been on there since I started Time Trials 9 years ago. I normally run NASA or NCRC events. All I do is register my transponder when I sign up for the event and presto.....mine and everybody elses lap times are taped up somewhere downstairs beneath the timing tower after the session.
All I remember is catching up to Greg coming out of the carousel, he pulled me heading to turn 7, we ran down the esses and then he pulled off because of a fuel pressure issue.
It was a great day and my car was handling flawlessly. I was passing every single car in front of me........almost like I was running in a NASA HPDE 3 group. Lets be honest.....that is fun as hell!!
Either way....don't care. I love breaking Greg's balls and I had a great time at the track.
I'm always up for a challenge so if Greg really wants to give me a run for my money he'll grow a pair, get a transponder, and run with an ameature club with a bit more experience. :mock:

Flash68 08-06-2014 12:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregWeld (Post 564170)
That is a definite option at this point Mike. This motor didn't like Charley and it certainly doesn't like me. But I also have no idea what is wrong this time.. so will wait to pull the plug.
Please please don't put an LS in that thing and lose the raw awesomeness that the car has and doesn't deserve to lose.

I'm beyond certain RS can spec a reliable non-LS motor for that car. I think he's what you call... "been there done that."

:waveflag:

GregWeld 08-06-2014 12:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash68 (Post 564261)
Please please don't put an LS in that thing and lose the raw awesomeness that the car has and doesn't deserve to lose.

I'm beyond certain RS can spec a reliable non-LS motor for that car. I think he's what you call... "been there done that."

:waveflag:



No way buddy!! I was thinking SB2.....

Ron Sutton 08-06-2014 01:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregWeld (Post 564262)
No way buddy!! I was thinking SB2.....

LOL :lol:


No Way ... Let's put that TRD NASCAR Truck engine in it! :)

Just kiddin' ... of course. With 245 tires ... the 590hp it has/had is plenty.



GregWeld 08-06-2014 01:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Sutton (Post 564265)
LOL :lol:


No Way ... Let's put that TRD NASCAR Truck engine in it! :)

Just kiddin' ... of course. With 245 tires ... the 590hp it has/had is plenty.





That TRD --- derated.... oh yeah!



What's that thing worth 75 grand?

Chassisworks 08-06-2014 03:49 PM
I would love to see a Toyota in a Ford. Alex at Big Head Motorsports had an RB26DETT in an early Camaro for a while. I love seeing cars that p-off the purists.

Ron Sutton 08-06-2014 04:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregWeld (Post 564266)
That TRD --- derated.... oh yeah!



What's that thing worth 75 grand?

Gosh ... back when they were new & the hot package to run ... they were $55,000 ... a race ... on a lease deal. Now, they don't run that engine anymore ... so a guy can probably get a nearly new/fresh one for $20-25k. Of course worn out junk is out there for a lot less.

But rebuilds are killer. Too often & too much! Hey ... that sounds familiar. :lol:

:cheers:

Sieg 08-06-2014 05:25 PM
Ouch!

GregWeld 08-06-2014 05:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Sutton (Post 564300)

Gosh ... back when they were new & the hot package to run ... they were $55,000 ... a race ... on a lease deal. Now, they don't run that engine anymore ... so a guy can probably get a nearly new/fresh one for $20-25k. Of course worn out junk is out there for a lot less.

But rebuilds are killer. Too often & too much! Hey ... that sounds familiar. :lol:

:cheers:



It gets old real quick!!


Pete is here in Sun Valley -- and came down to the shop today. He was having all manor of valve train issues with his 347 (same cubic inch as mine) and finally put a 6300 chip in the MSD and hasn't had any problems since. Maybe it's all my doing IDK.

GregWeld 08-06-2014 05:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chassisworks (Post 564286)
I would love to see a Toyota in a Ford. Alex at Big Head Motorsports had an RB26DETT in an early Camaro for a while. I love seeing cars that p-off the purists.



Go see the car over at BMR Carl.... and take some rags -- some of your stuff is getting kinda greasy! Only because the current owner is a lazy pig... The parts work great!

Vegas69 08-06-2014 05:48 PM
I'd say more cubes so you can make it less rowdy. A quality engine should go a season and then need maintenance, not rebuilt. I wouldn't want to give up much rpm for road racing. How tight are you spinning it?

Vegas69 08-06-2014 05:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregWeld (Post 564305)
It gets old real quick!!


Pete is here in Sun Valley -- and came down to the shop today. He was having all manor of valve train issues with his 347 (same cubic inch as mine) and finally put a 6300 chip in the MSD and hasn't had any problems since. Maybe it's all my doing IDK.
If I can spin a big block 6800 countless times, that little small block should do it all day.

GregWeld 08-06-2014 05:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegas69 (Post 564307)
I'd say more cubes so you can make it less rowdy. A quality engine should go a season and then need maintenance, not rebuilt. I wouldn't want to give up much rpm for road racing. How tight are you spinning it?



I think I have a 7000 chip in the MSD -- but it might be less -- and I've NEVER hit the limiter. The Lotus I hit all the time - because I can't hear it with my new helmet (has communications built in and the ears are quiet as hell).



Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegas69 (Post 564308)
If I can spin a big block 6800 countless times, that little small block should do it all day.


I think that motor - with it's titanium valve train - and built by a top notch builder -- should run for 4 years of track days doing nothing but adjusting the solid lifters.... So either I'm doing something to it - damned if I know what - or there's some geometry issue that isn't being caught. Thus a fresh set of eyeballs will be in order. Unless I broke it real good.... and in that case a new motor will fit the bill --- or be on my bill! LOL

Vegas69 08-06-2014 06:17 PM
First thing that comes to mind is the titanium valves are causing you problems. Seems overkill for a small block with a 7k chip. If it doesn't have shaft mounted rockers, that's a must. I'd say the titanium valves warrant setting the valves HOT. Who knows what happens at road racing temps. I'm just throwing things out there. Me, I'd put a less radical combo in it or let Ron go through the entire engine.

clill 08-06-2014 06:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregWeld (Post 564305)
It gets old real quick!!


Pete is here in Sun Valley -- and came down to the shop today. He was having all manor of valve train issues with his 347 (same cubic inch as mine) and finally put a 6300 chip in the MSD and hasn't had any problems since. Maybe it's all my doing IDK.
347 ????

GregWeld 08-06-2014 07:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegas69 (Post 564321)
First thing that comes to mind is the titanium valves are causing you problems. Seems overkill for a small block with a 7k chip. If it doesn't have shaft mounted rockers, that's a must. I'd say the titanium valves warrant setting the valves HOT. Who knows what happens at road racing temps. I'm just throwing things out there. Me, I'd put a less radical combo in it or let Ron go through the entire engine.



It has shaft rockers.....

GregWeld 08-06-2014 07:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by clill (Post 564326)
347 ????


I think that's what it is.... but damned if I really know.

craig510 08-06-2014 08:52 PM
1 Attachment(s)
This would make a nice addition.

GregWeld 08-06-2014 09:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregWeld (Post 564331)
I think that's what it is.... but damned if I really know.


Jack Mauer says the motor is a 356 cubic inch

I seem to remember the numbers working out to be 355

Vegas69 08-06-2014 09:23 PM
Well, it's apparent why Charlie struck you such a sweet deal. :D

Sieg 08-06-2014 10:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregWeld (Post 564355)
Jack Mauer says the motor is a 356 cubic inch

I seem to remember the numbers working out to be 355
Previously I've heard 355, then 347. :headscratch:

It's a small revvie Ford with a very good power curve...........when it's running. :bang:

Flash68 08-06-2014 11:26 PM
4.082 bore x 3.4 stroke = 355.963

356 FTW!

GregWeld 08-07-2014 06:06 AM
Thanks Dave! The paperwork is down at the shop so I couldn't go find it. That's the problem with a shop where you can't just walk out your back door! Everything you need is there when you're not!


356 is it.


FWIW -- They dyno the motor to 7500 and I know I've never gotten near that. No good reason why it shouldn't be bullet proof.

Vegas69 08-07-2014 07:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash68 (Post 564383)
4.082 bore x 3.4 stroke = 355.963

356 FTW!
And we thought he was a just a numb nuts that married up...

SSLance 08-07-2014 08:39 AM
I know this probably won't be the popular opinion on this board (given all of the 7,000 rpm engines on jack stands around here :D ), but I'm of the opinion that an engine that makes peak power at a lower RPM is easier to drive on the track than a higher revving engine.

Here's my case... It's easier to get on and off the gas smoothly at say 3000-4000 rpm than at 6500 rpm... This leads to less surprising of the tires and more maintaining of grip easier.

My little truck motor that makes peak power between 2000 and 4000 RPM is a dream to drive, you just have to shift into a higher gear faster. It may get outrun on the straights a bit...but when back in the twistys it makes it all back up again by keeping the rear tires under the car instead of having to pedal it every time out of a corner. Plus (and this is a BIG plus) it's a LOT easier on all of the parts not twisting them so high lap after lap after lap...

Just a thought... Sorry you broke your car Greg, hopefully the carnage is minimal and it'll be back on the track soon.

GregWeld 08-07-2014 09:45 AM
For road racing I like high revving motors and don't want a torque motor... it's easier to drive at high speeds with a motor that's not trying to break the tires loose on exit. Nothing sounds better than a high revving stroker motor screaming for mercy. Not saying the 355 isn't making torque...





http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/a...ar/Mustang.jpg

GregWeld 08-07-2014 09:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegas69 (Post 564417)
And we thought he was a just a numb nuts that married up...






It didn't change my opinion of him one bit......

Sieg 08-07-2014 10:23 AM
Certainly looks reliable......
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-G...Gp5MMzT-XL.jpg

GregWeld 08-07-2014 10:39 AM
That SOB has the death rattle.....

Flash68 08-07-2014 12:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegas69 (Post 564417)
And we thought he was a just a numb nuts that married up...
Keeping thinking that because it's true! :thankyou:

Vince@Meanstreets 08-07-2014 02:10 PM
Greg, that line running over the header area, that's a return line no, or is it to a fuel gauge isolator?


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