LOOKS GREAT TRACKY, WHERE OR WHO MADE THE PAN ITSELF??

Yeah what he said. :thumbsup:

Just to clarify, this is not a new engine, just a freshen up with new valves and a timing belt drive set up. : )

. Picked it up from eBay. We had to modify it to work with the 2" spacer Joe the dyno guy added.

It was a 2 piece, we pulled the lid off and cut the lip off of the base to meet the hood line.
Maybe if you can find some one to make one I can provide a mold.

It's all good. :thumbsup:

suuuuurrrrre it is.

As much as I enjoy keeping Dave scratching his head the truth is the only work done to the heads were new valves and springs. We added the belt drive and retarded cam timing a bit to pick up a little more torque down low. Didn't touch the bottom end of the motor.

Guess I'm going to have to post the "obligatory" dyno sheet. Soon as I can remember where I put it I'll post it. Trust me.....it's not that impressive.

All the better when you whoop some ass of those with more power. :headscratch:

Trust me, it's impressive, it is in a complete and running car. That is impressive. :D

The airbox looks sweet btw......

I keep trying to tell you.....It's all about weight and tires. Hell, those Miatas are only a second or so slower than I am and probably a third of the horse power.

Thanks Rob. Truth is I dont have the patience to drag a build out like you guys do. If I skipped this season I could have installled a chicane set up for front coil overs, painted and installed my fiberglass doors and rear aluminum deck lid, and installed another cam per my new engine builders recommendations but all that will wait till next season. I'm ready to go play.

Thank you, I have a place to build one and a mold may be nice to copy from

I second that! Also interested as well!
Thanks Shane

what about a sheet metal piece, would you guys be interested in that in .060 or .090 6061? I'll check with my laser cutter. He has been slammed with Tesla contract work so I hope he can squeeze this in.

First dyno on a DTS 4000 back in May of 2010. Timing at 37. We did another pull with timing at 39 which bumped hp to 620 and dropped torque to 560.
Joe told me they put way to much timing into it.

http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/a...Sheets2001.jpg

Latest Dyno on a Superflow. Timing at 32.5.

http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/a...Sheets2002.jpg

Gaetano any insight on the changes to your motor and the difference in dyno numbers, other than timing and different dynos/days? That almost looks like you changed/advanced your cam...

Sounds good just let me know how much $ before hand. Thank you

You better fix your oiling issue or you are going to end up with nice coffee table for a block.

The motor definitely pulls harder down low now. After that little burnout video Vince posted I was curious on why the car launched so hard and left such dark marks on the asphalt. I checked rear tire air pressures and they were at 15 lbs. Obviously due to the car sitting for so long.

Thinking back, when we dynoed at NYES we only spent about 30 minutes on the dyno. Dont think those guys wanted to spend the time tuning other than playing with the distributor and we made two pulls. Cam was degreed with #1 intake at 106*. We made a pull with the timing at 37* and the other at 39*. When I told Joe about that he said that was way too much timing for a large C.I. small block which kind of made sense to me because my 350's always liked 36* and the 383 liked 34*.

The most recent dyno session the first thing Joe was looking for was where the motor liked total timing and after a few pulls Joe said 32.5. Then we started playing with cam timing. Pulls were made with #1 intake at 104, 106, and 108. All this did was move the power curve up and down the rpm range but it pretty much stayed the same so I opted for retarding cam 2* from where NYES originally set it to 108 which kicked peak torque to a lower rpm but left peak hp at 6300 rpm. Figured that I might pull harder coming out of the corners which is where I want to pick up my lap times. It only kicks peak torque in 300 rpm sooner. Not sure how much difference this is going to make yet and I may not even notice. One thing we didn't do was make a pull after rechecking valve lash at the end of the day. The lash grew quite a bit and Joe readjusted lash .002 smaller than cam specs recommend so the cam was probably alot smaller during the pulls which makes me think the motor is making a touch more power judging by the torque numbers. I should have pushed for another pull after we reset lash but after 6 hours I think Joe accomplished what he wanted to and was ready to get out of there.

He says he's built a similar motor before and can get me another 50 hp with a smaller duration cam but I'm not sure I need to go there. I'd rather not add work to the valve train and I honestly dont think it is hp that wins the race as opposed to reducing weight, tuning the suspension, and spending a little wheel time.

I was wondering about that myself. Not sure why the oil pressures look so much better on the first dyno sheet.

Nice catch.

GC - What changed that would influence the pressure or pressure numbers?

with RPM, my gut is telling me oil pump clearences.

After this season its gonna get gone through again.

Gae, when you dyno'ed what filter was used and was the bypass in the block?

I just got off the phone with Joe. If you look at coolant temps they are alot cooler on the first dyno. Cooler temps will give you higher pressures......on the same note the pressures shown on the second dyno sheet do make me a bit weary but Joe assured me that if there was an issue he would have caught it and that if I was running this way before most likely nothing has changed on the bottom end. Especially after 23 pulls with consistent readings and power.
T-Hill will be the ultimate test on this motor this weekend as weather has been forecasted for 100 plus temperatures.

Cant remember brand of filter and yes the bypass was in.

Makes sense on both counts. :thumbsup:

Did you change pushrods, pan, p/u and lifters? I too think that 45 psi is a little low on a road race eng @ that RPM, just remember


"Oil pressure and oil volume are 2 different things. As long as the oil supply gets where it needs to go at a given pressure, more pressure is just more strain on components"

I changed pushrods and pan. Pan was the same one as I had last time so I didn't change p/u.

I'm going to run the temps up as soon as it dries up outside and see how the pressures look.

Don't forget that gauges can read differently too + you can't read volume on a gauge.. Just keep an eye on it. A lot of people like to pull the pan after a dyno and read the bearings, I know it's a pain, but you may want to take a look at the bearings that will tell you a lot. , your dyno guy knows his stuff, I'd say you're safe.

I know you know...change the filter it's easy and cheap. Hope it's not a FRAM We had a lot of problems with those after that Co took Fram over. Switch brands if it is I like K&N or Wixs or get a reuesable filter like a systems 1 or?? I had an oberg I liked it, I took it apart and had a look all the time

Running a System One adapter and remote filter system with 12 an lines. I agree.....pressures look low and they even seem lower on the gauge than before. Theres only one thing I can think of right now that would have changed that and it would be pan to p/u clearance. Not sure why that would have changed though.
I'm just going to have to take it easy on the track the first couple of sessions and just watch the oil pressure gauge. I'm going to ask Dave to let me run in a slower group for the first couple of sessions.

So how did Joe try total timing at on your latest dyno session? How high did he go before reverting back to 32.5?

That is a huge difference to go from 37 to 32.5 for a 23* head. Timing is largely based on the efficiency of the head's combustion chamber, but you did not change heads, so I am confused.

I don't think I've seen a 23* head with such low total timing.

What is being done to control windage? Are you running a windage tray? Have you tried dropping the oil level say a quart?

I wouldn't even race it until you figure it out. Losing 15 lbs of oil pressure from 3000 to 6500 rpm means you have a serious issue. With an oil temp of only 174 on the dyno, it's going to be worse on the track. Especially if it's a windage issue which it almost certainly has to be.

Oil pressure should climb with rpm.
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/a...Graph_0001.jpg

thanks Todd, we'll look into it and report what we find.

Im going to speak to Joe and Gaetano later. I want to find out what oil was being used and the level. The level may have been incorrect.

0.60 sounds good Vince. Just let me know also what it will cost.
Thanks Shane

I agree, definitely a huge difference but one that I was happy to see. I'm not an engine builder so I cant give you an educated answer to your question. All I know is the first thing we worked on was ignition timing. Joe would make an adjustment, we's make a couple pulls, and then repeat until Joe liked it

Pan uses a screen for windage. Good call on dropping a quart. I know for a fact we had 7 quarts in a 6 quart pan and that was my decision only because I'm afraid of sucking air when on the track due to this happening to me before but with a different pan. When I get a chance I'm going to drain the oil and refill with 6 quarts but before I do I'll record rpm's and oil prssure the way it is and then record oil pressures with 6 quarts. If this doesn't remedy the issue I will probably cancel the track day.
Thanks for your input Todd.

I took some oil pressure readings but went with water temps beause I am now using the oil temp bung in the pan for the dip stick.

Initial start up cold at 1000 rpm was at 68 lbs
Temp at 180, rpm 750, oil pressure 53 lbs
Temp 190, rpm 750, oil pressure 52 lbs
Temp 200, rpm 750, oil pressure 48 lbs
Temp 205, rpm 6300 and held for a few seconds, oil pressure 62 lbs

I asked Joe why the difference in readings and he said because the dyno was running the engine through an oil cooler and it had an adjustable flow restrictor.

Needless to say I am now relieved.

Not much worse than Gearhead Hypochondriasis...........not that I would know much about it. :sarcasm_smiley:

I worry more about potential mechanical issues with the Camaro than waiting melanoma biopsy results. :sieg:

Hopefully that's all it was, to be safe don't drop your guard.

Glad to hear it was something simple.

I know exactly what your talking about Sieg. This is what seperates us car guys from the rest........sometimes I wonder about my priorities :headscratch:

Thanks Wayne. I appreciate that. Hope things are going better for you. :thumbsup:

and here i was getting ready to tear it apart thursday afternoon and have it ready by friday night. I guess its date night.

thanks for looking out guys.

Good to see your oil pressure is where it belongs. The explanation Joe gave you doesn't make any sense to me. Wouldn't that limit max oil pressure, not having it fall off with an RPM increase?

In regards to your extra quart. That was a good band aid for poor oil control with windage as your side effect. I wouldn't do it on this setup if it's a quality pan. Windage is BAD.

Needless to say, track test it and look when everything is HOT.