Yeah the mutual funds were the real downer of the bunch. Harley sat idle so of course as soon as I sold it the little f***er on Wall St. yells, "RAISE THE PRICE". The one mutual fund I've held onto seems to be performing pretty good but I'm wondering, can I sell the initial investment of $10,000 to use elsewhere and keep the profits invested in the fund. Something I'll have to look into. Maybe keep the $10,000 in the fund and take the profit and reinvest that. Decisions decisions.

Isn't it amazing that when you buy, the stock goes down, and when you sell it goes up -- the whole time you owned it for the last few months it does "nothing".

Reminds me of our sports teams here in Seattle - we get somebody - they suck - we trade them finally - and they become super stars... Deion Branch comes to mind...:rolleyes:

I would put Harley squarely in the "consumer discretionary" camp.... but I would also put them in the "fad" camp... If the consumer is feeling good - Harley will do better -- but at what point do we run out of people that grew up wanting a Harley? So when I look around at investing options -- and remember that we always have options for where we invest -- Harley would scare me because I'd always be wondering if it was "this quarter" when they report a big drop in sales etc. I prefer to invest in stuff that people NEED... and if they're discretionary - then I want them to be able to export (GROW) to China... (Apple - Coke - McDonalds etc). :cheers:

Call up Fidelity to get Brokerage Link setup and set that up as the Investment Election for your Fidelity 401k. Within the Brokerage Link account, you should be able to buy and sell all the common stocks being discussed in this thread. Also make sure you elect to reinvest those divi's!

Thanks Brian. My goal for the week is to make the calls to both vanguard and fidelity so I can find out how to do it all.

For Fidelity, they are likely going to send you a form to fill out in order to get Brokerage Link setup. I set mine up about 10 years ago, so I forget the exact details. Fidelity commissions aren't the cheapest, but as long as you are following most of the ideas here at 102, commissions are not important.

For those looking to open an account, I also like Zecco. Low commissions ($4.95 or something) and good basic features. If for some reason someone is looking to open a Zecco account with $10k or more, let me know and I'll send you a referral and we both get $100... quick 1% if you ask me! :thumbsup:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...ng_Investing_2

Just thought I'd share this.

Good article Jose....

It's saying pretty much what I've been preaching here -- with one exception -- that we're talking about NEWBS and pretty low dollar amounts here -- or at least that's my perception.... so to follow the advice of bonds and stocks and all the other mixes discussed here is pretty hard to follow even if you had 100K. In a portfolio like I have -- I have all those mixes - munis - stocks - corporates - growth - risk - safety - international etc... but for the normal account - it's just not possible. And you also need to consider "TIME" i.e., your AGE now... younger can take more risk... old farts like me play it a bit safer.

What I did like to see here is that he was also preaching some "risk"/"growth" along with the safety and that's the other thing I've been trying to hammer down on.... all growth isn't' a good thing and it's that greed that comes home to roost in a downturn. In an up market people start thinking they're investing icons! :woot: but if you temper your account with some balance - then you don't get killed.

Speaking for myself only, you're not going very far out on a limb with that statement.......maybe 6" from the trunk on a 12" limb. :rofl: :rofl:

Well -- I didn't mean that people don't have anything or that they have zero etc --- it's all relative really -- a 20 year old with 10 grand is a hero in my book -- cause that guy can really hit a home run before retirement... but it's not enough to get all the diversity that was talked about in that article -- thus my comments. Sometimes you read this stuff and you look in the mirror and start to think you're doing something wrong because you don't have it all going on! WRONG... but it is educational and well worth the read.

Please don't think I meant it in a negative way at all. You've shown, at the risk of personal exposure, those following this thread the real potential of strategic personal investing. Personally don't know many people as generous, especially in this day and age. Hopefully there are a good number of 20 and30 year olds reading and taking this thread to heart as the impact it may have on their quality of life is a wonderful thing. :thumbsup:

Amen... too many young people think that planning ahead at 20 or 30 is crazy...

That it seems so far away...Instant gratification seems better..

Tell you what, not planning for the future is crazy.. You must plan and invest.

I was on track to retire at about 60....Well two years ago, at 50, I had a major Brain and Heart condition which forced me into early retirement.

Had I not been planning for years , and with Plan "B", and "C", I would be homeless right now..

So, I have started living on my dividends sooner than expected, but all is well.

Even someone older , 45 or so, can still make it happen, if you stay healthy.. You could still save until you are 65..20 years of investing..

The younger viewers...this stuff is Golden and you have the World at your feet...Invest now, and reap the rewards later...:cheers:

No! I didn't think you meant it negatively at all!

Sometimes in these threads it's hard to put down all you're thinking.... while watching TV and talking with the kids (they're home this weekend) and I am A.D.D. on top of that.

I just am trying to make sure that people don't get overwhelmed and that they don't start thinking "oh hell - I don't have enough so why bother".

Great article on big names you all know -- and why they're successful...

Not pitching any of the companies -- just saying that you don't always have to be in the hot thing to make a lot of money over time.:woot:



http://bottomline.msnbc.msn.com/_new...llar-companies

I am 27 and am trying to figure out how to invest my money, since it is not making anything setting in a savings account. I got in on this thread late (page 68) so i am trying to catch up. I have in the range of 10-15,000 that i would be willing to "tie up" in investments. The rest i need to keep access to for impending life events (i.e. baby due the end of the month, and new house in the next 1-2 yrs.)

There is alot of good advice here and i look up to those that have been successful.:hail:

These is a great thread. Hope I can catch up one day.

A page or two back is a recap from Greg.

Check that out, and i think most of your questions will be answered..

About Risk, Diversity, Compound Interest, Dollar cost averaging,Data about ROI.

Actually easier than it sounds.

You have time on your side, and if you are thinking short term, mid term, and long term buckets, you are so much farther than most.

Double check the thread and the recap, and take some notes..

Plenty of guys willing to give opinions that are good..Take them all in, and then make YOUR plan..

Welcome to the best Thread ever:cheers: :lateral: :woot:

:hail: :bow: :hail: :bow: :cheers: :woot:


Coursey -- YOU are exactly the guy we're trying to reach out to. You have that magic thing called "TIME" on your side and you have a nice amount to start with.

You could start out by buying $1000 worth of each company you choose to invest in - and this would give you diversity... or you could - depending on your savings rate - take a narrower focus to start and buy $2000 worth - and then save up and add a new name with the new savings. Either way -- you're a winner.

If you buy dividend paying stocks -- with $10,000 -- you should be able to collect 500 to 700 a year in dividends. Reinvested - in about 3 years you should be collecting $1000 a year... which buys more shares and starts to really snowball. If you're adding to your account $1000 or $2000 a year in addition - you're going to be really rich by the time you retire.

If you don't already have them -- you'll want to ask the brokerage you choose -- about ROTH IRA -- which you can fund before April 15th for 2011 AND you can fund it at the same time for 2012... Hopefully the rules will allow you to fund $8000 into the ROTH -- then put the balance into
a 401... or just a regular taxable (not tax deferred) account. The ROTH comes out at retirement totally tax free. So imagine having a million plus dollars in an account that is spinning off $50 grand a year tax free and is still growing - so by 75 or 80 years old - it's kicking out even more. :woot:

Coursey ---

Here's what I'm talking about with dividends and interest -- here's a PREFERRED STOCK I have in JP MORGAN -- and here's a snap shot of SIX STINKY LITTLE MONTHS in payments from the holding.



12/01/2011 JPM+I JPMORGAN CHASE 8.625%PFDDEP SHS REPSTG 1/400 NON
type: QUALIFIED DIV
$4,042.97

09/01/2011 JPM+I JPMORGAN CHASE 8.625%PFDDEP SHS REPSTG 1/400 NON
type: QUALIFIED DIV
$2,964.84

06/01/2011 JPM+I JPMORGAN CHASE 8.625%PFDDEP SHS REPSTG 1/400 NON
type: QUALIFIED DIV
$2,964.85

I should have added that this is a QUALIFIED DIVIDEND -- so is currently taxed at 15% -- if it was in your ROTH it would come out 100% TAX FREE

I was just curious and thought about modeling a 10,000 portfolio and seeing what kind of dividends it would spin off for reinvestment.... and then I took a look at one high yielder - ANNALY CAPITAL MANAGEMENT (NLY) and thought --- WHAT IF a guy just bought 10,000 worth of that....

$10,000 would buy 583 shares paying .57 per quarter... $332 per quarter -- so the first quarter you'd buy 19 more shares now you have 602 shares - second quarter dividend would be 602 shares @ .57 which would buy 20 more shares -- so third quarter would be 623 shares @ .57 per share and would buy 20 more shares...for a total of 643 shares -- fourth quarter would buy 21 shares for a total of 664 shares... so now you have a 10 percent increase in shares and you can see how in just one stinky year this is starting to snowball...

So without all the typing here's 2nd year

22 shares
23 shares
23 shares
24 shares

Now in year two you have 756 shares YEAR THREE you're adding 100+ shares!

Okay -- my fingers are worn out just thinking about it. :D

I keep telling the Wife we should be charging her son some rent. (not to mention a food bill every month) and put it in a RRSP for him.
Still working on that lol he will thank us when we are Dead.

I found a recap on page 76, is this the one you were talking about? or is there a differnet one as well?

Yep that's it..... but even go back to page one and just cruise thru there because there's been a ton of questions and responses... and examples etc

This is OLD NEWS -- from the SEPTEMBER QUARTER -- but what I want to ask you is.... did anyone get a 15% pay increase last year - or this year? :lol:

Here's your lowly McDonalds giving you a 15% pay increase... and this is another aspect that you want to look for in dividend payers.... the DIVIDEND INCREASE over time. Because this means they're making money - and it covers you for inflation!

I am NOT pushing McDonalds - it just happens to be a stock I own so I can use it as an example.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

McDonald's Corporation announced that its Board of Directors declared a quarterly cash dividend of $0.70 per share of common stock payable on December 15, 2011 to shareholders of record at the close of business on December 1, 2011 . This represents a 15% increase over the Company's previous quarterly dividend rate and brings the fourth quarter dividend payout to over $700 million.

Greg - FANTASTIC THREAD... and just at the right time.

31yo who wants to build a future.

I have 20K in my account ready to invest. This morning i bought my first ($1000 in T)

So, with 19K remaining what do you think about 2K in each of the the following to start:

MCD
GSK
COST
MMM
KO

What do I do with the rest? Anything I should add in to balance things out? BTW - I have an energy stock through a DSPP and options at work.

By the way - if I have the ability to self direct my 401K, should i follow the exact same principles there?

Thanks!
Chris

im thinking of dropping 10 in annaly. bought some other stocks the other day.

at&t
bank of america
starbucks
altria

the dividend stream alone on annaly can really add up!!

Chris....

Somehow you missed the "GREAT CHART" part of the research...

Go back and look at 3M (MMM) and Glaxo Smith Kline (GSK)... these are not the growth story you need. So what I would do is to look at your choice -- and compare them against other companies in their sector. You really want to TRY to get all of the major components in your picks -- Growth - Dividend - good chart - name/business you understand.

I also think that with 20K to invest - I'd prefer you get more diversity. So even if you just went with 1250 or 1500 per name and spread out a bit more.

You have Coke - McDonalds and Costco.... All good stocks -- but with the size of your account - and your age - I'd try to get some separation. These 3 horsemen are basically in the same 'sector'.... food/retail.

That, and you don't have any higher risk stocks to balance out your steady eddies. Your age allows you to take a little more risk than what you've chosen... and they can really put some octane in your total returns.

So with 20 grand --

choose Coke or McDonalds

Pick a different drug company -- with a better growth story that GSK or at least compare them and see if there is one you'd be just as happy with. You may end up with GSK if it's the one you like.

Ditto this in 3M

I like Costco --- I don't own any -- but it has a growth story and is a really well run company. I just would like to see you have more diversification.

Let's take a look at adding a high yielder -- JNK or HYG or NLY or some other in that category.

Great that you have energy already -- the country is always going to need energy!

Yes I'd follow the same strategy in your 401... You need all the horsepower you can to get you to win the race. You're young. You have time. So treat your 401 and your "new" account as ONE BALANCE -- add them up -- look at them TOGETHER - don't duplicate and don't overlap. IT'S ALL YOUR MONEY -- so diversify and think of them as ONE account when looking at them.

Remember --- I'm (nor anyone else) is here to pick stocks for anyone... We're really discussing what to think about and how to look at them.. so please don't feel I'm dissing your choices... you're on the right track but let's look a little more and then post up what you're thinking... and maybe where you're at in the 401 (names so we can look at it all - and feel free to use PM if you're not comfortable posting this stuff publicly).

I look at my 401k and see what little its doing and think i could just do my own mutual fund like greg said and come out the same or even better. Its really got me thinking about my money instead of my car to a certain extent. scarry!!

THE MONEY PAYS FOR YOUR CAR!

You'll feel better about putting money into your toys -- when you have REAL MONEY being earned and saved (not home equity rising - that don't count).

Just be mindful of INTEREST RATES when you're investing in Annaly (NLY) or HYG or JNK.... because these invest in interest rate sensitive product... and as interest rates RISE you'll take a hit in the capital side...

I use these to PARK money and get a great return -- so think about it this way -- you can have money in a money market account and make .025% --- or you can park money in JNK - HYG - NLY and make 7 to 12%... but you have to be ready to move. They are not "park it and forget it" names.

Since the FED has said it's leaving rates LOW.... we're looking good here - but be ready if the FED SIGNALS it's changing it's mood! Then you SELL these names quick!

Right now all really have is a high yield checking account and a 401k through work.

My checking account makes 3.54% daily for the first 20K. Over 20K the interest is incurred at .75%. This is were the bulk of my money is setting.

Im not really sure what all my Edward Jones account has in it. I am going to try to get a better hold on this account to see how it is doing, and what funds it is in (I think it is AmeriFunds).

This thread has really got me thinking about were my money is at and if it would betterin other places.

So much activity and questions..

I am loving it..

Yes, the Investments now will pay for your toys later..

We are at a crazy time in History.. The last few years, and the next few years.. Incredible opportunities.. Take them..:cheers:

We sure will have big bumps in the road(Market), but in the long Run, those that are in the game now with multiple "employees", will reap the benefits later, and the dividends along the way.

Can I vote that Big Ben speaks every week...Because when he does....:woot: :woot:

One good thing about this thread is that it has legs. I don't think it will just end, because its something like cars that we all have in common. Its just another part of the car hobby(funding it to a lesser degree sorta). It might even pass vegas69 build thread one of these days! I know I check it daily. thanks for getting it going and keeping it going.

mike

OK youngsters don't let us down. Pay close attention to the fundamentals and take the ball and run wisely! :thumbsup:

Oh how I wish this opportunity would have been put in front of me in this manner 25 years ago. I'd be focused on track day schedules for this season with Mr. Weld vs. real work. :unibrow:

You mentioned having to be able to move these stocks (NLY JNK HYG) fast if there was a change with the interst rates. Would you park these in a specific account due to the possible tax hit you might take if you can't hold them for the long term?

I posted what I have in my Rollover IRA, I also have a brokerage account with Schwab and a Roth IRA. When selecting stocks should you watch where you park them for tax purposes?

Personally, I think the only real advantage to a 401k anymore is if the company matches any portion of your contribution. You should of course put enough in every month so you get the maximum match the company is offering. Beyond that, I believe a Roth IRA is a much better choice for people with a long way to retirement. Now, if you have or make enough that you can max out your Roth every year and have some left over, then put the left over amount into the 401k.

Most 401k's have very limited investment options and most of those usually suck. A Roth that you open at a discount brokerage gives you the option to invest in just about anything you want. Also, if you want to take a small portion and gamble or trade with it a little bit any gain you realize is not a taxable event when it's done inside a Roth. It's not even taxed when you withdraw it, you pay the transaction fee for the trade and that's it.

If you have some money in a 401k account in a plan from an employer THAT YOU NO LONGER WORK FOR, you can convert that into a Roth IRA provided you can pay the income tax on the money (at your current tax rate) with money outside the plan. This is because the 401k contributions are pre-tax and the Roth IRA contributions are post-tax. You can't use money from inside the plan to pay the income tax either, you have to pay it with "outside" money and the whole thing goes on your tax return for the year in which you make the conversion. The money does not go through you personally or you'll pay the early 401k withdrawl penalty. What you have to do is a trustee to trustee transfer where the money goes from the old 401k plan directly to an already setup Roth IRA plan. If you don't have a Roth yet setup yet you should anyway and it should be established before you initiate the conversion.

There is some math involved to see if the conversion is worthwhile but I believe for just about anyone probably 45 or younger it makes sense to do it provided you can pay the income tax on the balance from the 401k without suffering a financial hardship. The 401k pre-tax contribution premise is based on the assumption that you will be in a lower tax bracket at retirement age but I bet if you are following an investing 102 philosophy there's a good chance you'll be in a higher bracket in which case the Roth is a much better plan because all withdrawls from it are tax free.

I'm not sure I'm aware of all the current rules so you should investigate the details further if this interests you. I just wanted to contribute a little to the overall thought process here. Any corrections or add-ons are of course welcome. :lateral:

Man we're getting great questions in this thread!! Amazing how people are thinking now! I love it!!

Jose.... #1 thing about investing when thinking about taxes. BE HAPPY if you have to pay a tax! It's only a small percentage of what you MADE! My accountant used to get so angry with me when I complained about my tax bill! He'd say - GREG! You made a million bucks and you're only paying 350,000 in taxes -- that means you still got to KEEP 650 GRAND! Don't be an idiot! I'd smile and say -- Okay I see what you mean.

Now -- First off -- folks -- do not be confused as to WHICH ACCOUNT you have money in! If it's a TAX DEFERRED ACCOUNT (401/ROTH etc) then there is no tax due until you withdraw.... and in the case of a ROTH there's NEVER any tax due! So fugedidabout taxes.... they're not important here.

IF however, you're talking about a taxable account... then still forget about the taxes --- LTCG are one year and a day - 15%..... STCG are anything less than that and are taxed at your ordinary rate.... so Jose -- what you're really talking about is the DIFFERENCE between 15% -- and your ordinary rate... and while we can sit here and discuss this all day... paying that "difference" on your taxes is FAR FAR better than LOSING CAPITAL! So let's say you made 1,000 in gains -- short term (STCG) -- and you're at the 35% bracket (god bless you!) DUDE! You're only paying taxes because you MADE MONEY!

The alternative is to LOSE your gain --- and pay no taxes.... which would you rather do??

SO the key here is to MAKE MONEY - furgit da tax man - we don't want no stink in' loses! And if that means you have to sell to keep your gain - then DO IT!

Oh == and maybe at the end of the year -- you might want to scoop some gains - redeploy those workers.... then look at your account and take a loss on something else to MINIMIZE your tax gain.... and retrain those losers! Maybe not the whole team but maybe some of them -- just a haircut here and there so as to offset some of your gain...

So the real difference is between being a TRADER and an INVESTOR.... a Trader is just trying to make quick trades to make gains... and he's going to have (hopefully) a tax at the end of the year... but we're not talking about being that guy. We're talking about MANAGING our money to minimize losses - maximize our gains and protect our assets. HUGE difference!

Parking money is still about MAKING MONEY.... Obviously we will try to minimize the tax bill in the process. I have a couple MM in JNK - HYG - NLY.... it's parked there because I don't LOVE these plays for anything other than the cash they spit out... they don't make anything - there's no brand - so I only want them for their bodies! :lol: The minute they get long in the tooth they're outta here! Or if I can find something else that is safer and gives me near the return. In the meantime... I'm loving 'em TODAY.

Remember that we use these kinds of "stocks" to offset our far better INVESTMENTS that pay a smaller dividend. They can really boost your returns.... but if interest rates change or look like they're going UP - RUN! These will get clobbered first! So ya gotta be on the lookout all the time. :cheers:

Mike --

I have various buckets of money - old money - new money - stocks - bonds - real estate etc. I like to keep 'em separate so I can track what they're doing. Recent "new money" (an asset that converted to cash) was just gravy for me (thank you thank you thank you... :hail: :hail: :hail: better lucky than smart!!).... and was stuck into several different accounts. One of those was UP $35 grand today and the market wasn't up much.... so buying that $275 replacement module for my trucks Banks Power system was no biggie (in my mind). It's like a total "ho hum"....

This is where ya want to be... making money in your sleep so parts are no biggie.

Hey Greg, you're doing a great job of passing along quality information in a way that can be digested by the masses. While this may be an investing 101 topic, I would think the quote above could be a great reason to integrate a discussion on the use of, and strategy behind, limit orders, stops and trailing stops. Particularly as it fits in with your overall investing strategy...

Thank you... I'm trying to keep it simple enough that no one is left behind.

Limit orders - stops and trailing stops are something I never use.... so while I certainly understand them and will explain them here I don't think they're a good strategy for Investors 102...

Limit orders is a price you pick when placing a purchase order. And there are several factors you can choose when placing a buy order - limiting the price you are willing to pay - vs "market order" - and also the time frame you're willing to place on an order - good til filled - fill or kill etc. You can even specify fill all or none etc. These are fine "limits" but for our purposes - we just want to own the stock - and a few pennies one way or the other isn't going to make much of a difference.... thus I've left this out of the discussion.

If I don't use this to buy 10,000 or 20,000 shares at a time.... I don't see how it's particularly useful buying 50 / 100 / 500 shares. While setting a limit order price could save you .50 or even maybe a 1.00 per share (on a stock that moves like that) many times you can set a limit and not buy the stock because it never traded that day at your limit price.

Stop orders are a price you choose in advance - telling your brokerage that if it gets to this point sell it... It's kind of a short for "stop loss"... which is just picking a price at which you'd rather sell the stock than hold it should it fall below your chosen price.

Again - for our purposes - the last thing we'd want to do is to get "stopped out" (the stock hits your stop price and is sold out) - and then loose our dividend in the process.... just because for one day or one week - or even for 3 months - the price is lower and meets some pre picked price. Remember -- that for our purposes - we actually want to BUY more stock at lower prices! We want that dividend to buy more shares... And I just don't think that stop loss orders have a place in "Investing 102". These are sophisticated strategies for people that are gambling rather than investing.

If someone is interested in learning these strategies - and there is no doubt that they can be used and in certain instances maybe should be used - there's a ton of information about them on the discount brokerages websites.

If you're really fearful of the stock market -- and wanted to put in stop losses on your stocks - you could just set some price on each stock that when they got to 10% below your cost you'd get sold out...

Guaranteed --- at some point you'll be sold out... and a week later or a month later the stock is higher and you're left shaking your head holding a 10% loss on a stock you wanted to own for 2 /3 /5 years... and now you have to go back and re-buy it... and then maybe miss the "ex" date for the dividend in the process....

If you're a real sophisticated guy - and you're watching your account minute by minute - and have all day every day to fuss around with this kind of stuff... it's fine. Me? I buy good stuff - year after year it goes a little higher - and those checks just keep buying me more car crap.... :rofl:

Greg,

Good to know..

I may not be investing in quite the same stuff as Investing 102 does, but my strategy is similar.. i buy what i think is the best of a certain asset class, i do the long term research, and i am not into a quick trade, but a longer term strategy.

I may not keep it as simple as you say(KISS), but i sure leave out a lot of the movement and hands on trading that some of the above terms , seem to be.

If i see a longer trend in the asset, and maybe i should fire them, that is one thing, but to sell at a given temporary low price, just seems strange to this newbie..

to me the total value of the asset at a given time does not matter..Dividends are being paid, and in just about ALL cases, it goes back to and above where i would have stop lossed or whatever you call it.

And there in lies the truth.... regardless of what the price is "today" -- the dividend gets paid quarterly.... and lord knows I've tried to show enough times the power in that.

Which is why I always keep some powder dry (parked as I call it) to buy on the "dips" in stocks I want to own... because the lower I can buy them - the higher that dividend percentage is! I love it when I can buy a stock down $5 or more... than my original purchase cost. That's why -- if at all possible you want to scale into a position. Obviously you've got to be buying 250 or 500 shares (total position) in order to make that work... Ya can't be scaling in to 100 shares... the commissions would eat your savings.

Here's a classic example in real life...

on May 27, 2011 I bought 5,000 Annaly (NLY) at 18.00

on June 21, 2011 I bought 5,000 more at 18.56

on Nov 22, 2011 I bought 10,000 more at 15.91

If I liked it at 18.56 I gotta really love it at 15.91 so I bought TWICE as much!:lol:

It's paying the same .57 per share dividend... so at 18.56 I'm making 12.28%

but at 15.91 I'm getting paid 14.33% !!

So on my holdings in this stock --- I've got a pretty healthy blended return. I'm holding 35,000 shares of this right now - but it goes up and down all the time -- I just use this to park some dough while I'm sitting on my brains doing some thinking.


BTW -- you math whizzes... to figure your PERCENTAGE of any given dividend -- add up the ANNUAL dividend - and divide it by the per share price you paid...

Ya know -- I don't like to be recommending stocks -- just not my thing... I'm more about how to think about investing - the old - catch a fish or teach a guy how to fish thing...

But if it was me - I'd be investing in BANCO SANTANDER (STD) which is a "world bank" and is paying 10% dividend while you wait for the banking industry to "recover"... Poor beleaguered Bank of America (BAC) is only paying .51%

Just thinking out loud here -- both charts are nasty -- but sometimes it "pays" to be early if you're willing to suck up some lumps along the way. I just like being paid to suck up the lumps... :D :woot: