Gae - You run a remote filter system on the car.......what filtering were they using on the dyno?

I hear what your saying......I imagine if I were in charge I would have opted to adjust for more oil pressure. My position on dyno day was to trust what he was doing. This wont be my last go around with Joe.....I'll get a better explanation when I talk to him again.

As far as the extra quart this is my view and please correct me if it doesn't make sense......I filled the pan with 7 quarts of water before I installed it just to see how close to the crank it would be. Water level came up even with the windage screen. My thoughts were if I'm up in the rpm's all the time how much oil is left in the pan?.....especially at the end of a long straightaway before coming into an uphill left handed corner(which is how I retired a rod bearing on my last motor).

This is the best pic I can find so far that describes the set up. We put a sandwich adaptor on to the block and then connected the oil in/out lines to the adaptor. Oil filter was screwd into the adaptor. Let me see if I could find any more pics.

http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/a...ngineDyno5.jpg

Is there any way your filtering setup on dyno could cause the reduced upper rpm oil pressure? :sieg:

Thats a question for the pros my friend but if I heard it correctly I could swear I heard Joe say that he had the ability to adjust flow. I may have heard it wrong and Todd's right, that doesn't make sense. I'm going to give him a call.

Gaetano... I like the your design of the cold air/cowel induction set up. It looks better that shape than round. Is it attached to the firewall or does it come up short of the firewall? I was just wondering what you did in the back, I can't tell from the picture. I'm thinking of copying your design... looks good and functional to.

It looks like you added some extra holes in the hood to pick up more air too... good idea.

Thanks Dale. There is a sheetmetal piece that Vince fabbed up that completes the connection to the firewall. We had been using it with the lid set up and needs to be cut down a bit. I forgot to bring it home from the shop.

Funny you mentioned the holes. I didn't really notice them until you pointed them out. I'll have to see if they actually do aid in introducing air into the box. :headscratch:

I'd start with what the pan was engineered to hold as windage is no bueno. Jason Pettis made a point to tell me never to over fill my crank case for that exact reason. If you are running out of pressure on long sweepers, it's time for a better pan or accumulator, not more oil.:D

Accumulator --- easy to plumb... and will protect your oil pressure.

I close the valve to mine before shutting down -- and open it before starting to create oil pressure. At least that's the way Charley told me to do it.

Can you set an accumulator up to introduce oil at a specified oil pressure? Once that oil is introduced into the system does it retrieve it back when pressures are adequate?

You can set them up with a solenoid so they only open below a set pressure. That's for a street car to solve the hastle of opening and closing a manual valve. I ran a manual valve on my car and left it close on the street. (Mixed the oil up once in a while to burn off moisture) I'd then just open it on track days and rev up the engine an close it at the end of the day. Beat the ever living crap out of my car and never had an engine problem. That and a great engine builder. :beathorse

So with a manual set up how did it know when to introduce the oil? And once it introduced the oil how did it know when to return the oil back to the canister?

Moroso's Accumulator is connected to the pressure side of the engine's oiling system. When the engine is running, oil pressure forces reserve oil into the accumulator and compresses the air ahead. If oil pressure should suddenly drop because of hard acceleration, severe cornering or hard braking, the air pressure immediately sends oil to the main galleries. When the danger is over and the pump is once again primed with oil, the oil pressure forces oil back into the Accumulator where it is ready for the next emergency.
Moroso has 3 types of Accumulators. There is the original Accumulator which can be used for street or track. The Heavy Duty Accumulator is designed for extreme applications and all-out competition. The Accumulator 2 is highly recommended for light-duty applications including small-displacement street performance and mild off-road vehicles. All are available in a 1.5-quart version while the Accumulator and Heavy Duty Accumulator also have a 3-quart version. The 1.5-quart version is perfect for small displacement and 4- and 6-cylinder engines while the 3-quart is for 8+ cylinder applications. Moroso Accumulators come with a manual ball valve (except Accumulator 2), unlike competing models.
Moroso Accumulators can also be used to manually pre-lube engines before starting to prevent cold-start scuffing and premature bearing wear.

Anytime the pressure in the accumulator exceeds the oil pressure in the engine, it pushes oil into the bearings. Let's say you are humming around a corner with 60 psi and you have starvation and the pressure starts to drop, the accumulator with push oil into the engine until the pressure equalizes. Once it equalizes, the accumulator will be at full capacity again momentarily. If you were to lose all oil pressure, it would oil for 3-4 seconds. When you shut off the engine, the accumulator empties into the engine. When you start the car, oil pressure will be low until it fills the accumulator.

no, the whole inner section has a separate pan...its closed off to those holes.

what ever pressure you had at shut down, there is a shrader valve on the side, maybe you can?? Never researched it.

Thanks, got it. :thumbsup:

Let me know when you got time to help me install an accumulator. Anytime after June 30th and before August works for me. :D

Gonna have to be in August. When is the next battle? August or September. Send me some dates.

I have been wanting to change out all of your lines too, also make an aluminum cooler mount...for a year now.

Hoping to make August 3rd then Sept 15th

Finally...:)

That's about when you'll be ready toots

Yes you can, here is one i installed year ago on a drag car. See the solenoid at the bottom,that opens at a certain drop in pressure..

http://masterlube.net/

http://masterlube.net/

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y3/real3/IMG_5586.jpg


http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y3/real3/IMG_5584.jpg

Thanks Jerry. I think I'll be putting mine right behind the radiator laying horizontally on top of the subframe.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Gae, just a thought...Chris (Project Major Havoc) mounted his switch activated accusump horizontal and forward of the fuel tank and ran the hoses up to the engine. Seemed like a good ldea for weight distribution.

Weight distribution yes, but it's about the farthest run possible for the lines to get to the motor when it needs it.

I don't know the part well enough to make that call (in other words are the hoses pressurized at all times?), but I believe Canton approved that placement.

Hopefully Chris jumps in here :popcorn2:

Yeah I am not certain either. But between Chris and Todd those 2 will have all the details for sure.

Stealing a little time from work here but quickly this is what I have. Also, with the mechanical the pressure set to dispurse will be pressure at engine shut down which is why I will be going with a solenoid in the 40 psi range.

Pressure
 

should be set at 25 lbs. It will be dumping extra oil in your motor at hot idle if it is set at 40 psi when it does not need it and assuming you are getting the 3 quart system, that is way too much.

Randy Bell has on on his car and he also wired a red warning light to the system. The light would come on when the system discharged just so he would know when and where on the track he was losing pressure.

An accumulator is simply a pressure equalizer. You can have 15 lbs of oil pressure and the cylinder is full. The solenoid keeps the accumulator from dumping it's load in the pan when you shut off the motor and it helps build oil pressure faster than with an open manual valve. Keep in mind that you only put 6 lbs of air pressure on the back side of the accumulator piston. That's why it takes 5 seconds for the cylinder to empty with the engine off. For convenience, I like the solenoid.

that is an excellent idea.

Gaetano is pretty keen on where to put the weight...we have tons of room in front of his crank shaft but we'll find out after we Brett-ify his sway bar. Def gonna be center and to the drivers side as much as possible.

You make a good point Payton but dont you think 25 seems a bit low? I know I should be checking this with oil temps but when I was recently checking oil pressures I brought my water temps to 205 and at 750 rpm, my oil pressure was 48 lbs.
Temp at T-Hill this Sunday is supposed to be 106. I dont think I will do all 5 sessions.....most likely three......I'll get a better idea of what kind of oil pressures I'm running at idle after a few sessions and then make a call from there.

I think the safest bet would be the shortest run.

BTW, Thanks for looking out :thumbsup:

I agree, I think the solenoid is the way to go. If your outside of the car closing the valve you cant see what the oil pressure is.

Please know all of this is second hand info
 

as I have never had one on a car. The way it was explained if you are having oiling issues where the pressure is dropping or the pump is sucking air, the pan is not baffled well enough and/or the motor is pumping all the oil to the top of the motor and it is not draining back fast enough. The accusump is supplying oil to keep the pump covered up...better way than adding an extra quart or so and not having one.

Most engine builders will tell you that you can run low pressure (20 lbs) for a short amount of time and not do any damage. You are just trying to keep it from sucking air and having no oil to the bearing.

When Ron (blue 66 mustang) blew his wet sump LS7, it was a combination of a stock LS3 pan, oil pumped to the top of the motor and a long sweeping corner and the remainder of the oil went up the side of the pan and starved the bearings.

Since my pressures are high it leads me to believe that I might suck the pan dry. I know pressure isn't the same as volume but how could I possibly calculate. I think in my case 25 might be a bit low. 40 does sound a bit high. I'll start asking questions but I imagine I'll be at least at a 30.

A properly plumbed accumulator will use a one way valve or drain back filter so the oil is pushed from the accumulator right into the main galley. Payton is right, it will lube the crank and fill the pan so the pump doesn't cavitate. There is a pressure gauge on the accumulator with the manual valve. You just subtract the 6psi precharge off the total. I would simply rev up the engine with my right hand and close it at say 60 or 70 psi.

150% correct

There's no way you are sucking the pan dry of your oil level is correct.

You have the proper pick up, appropriate capacity, adequate returns and trap doors to keep your pick up primed.

Pressure will not do it volume will.