It would be interesting to see what kind of hell would break out if there was an attempted public attack of any scale on Obama............if the media would air any of it.

PS -You left out security for Air Force 1.........think it's up in the air all by it's lonesome? That's one section of the military budget that won't get cut. :D

ahhh ok we just got flagged by homeland...wave everyone:thumbsup:

Wow..I'm off the grid for a few and everything goes crazy. Certainly a tragic incident that we all must work to lessen the chances of happening again.

I just read all 22 pages and there are a few good ideas here. Sadly, they all have draw backs.

Todd is on the right track of having an armed officer in every school. No he/she can't prevent this from happening, but it would add a layer of protection and be a show of force. A show of force can often be a huge deterrent. Obviously ill doers of this type pic targets that are unprotected. Odds of success are in their favor. Take that away and there's a chance they will move on. Sadly, in Las Vegas the school police don't get involved when sh!t hits the fan. Instead they stand back and call in Metro. Reason is the school district policy. Still, it's a great idea.

I also like Todds idea of a required training course when purchasing your first firearm, but believe it should be taken a bit further. I'd like to see that for every type of firearm purchased. Semi-auto hand gun, revolver, rifle and shotgun. Additionally, I think that training should cover the safe storage of guns in ones homes. Todd mentioned that he attended a hunters safety course, something I have also done. A great program, but not nearly enough and hunting isn't what it used to be.

Education is a huge factor in all of this (and a lot of other things). That starts in the home!! Parents who own firearms need to teach their children. Yes we have violent video games and movies, but that's not an excuse. I know several young men and woman (under 14-ish) who's fathers have spent taken the time to educate their children on the subject of guns and it's been nothing but positive.

I wish more of you would try and look at it (the best you can) from a criminals point of view. Where and how would you commit your crime? Only then can you come up with an idea of how to protect your self from being a victim. There isn't one answer to it, every situation is going to be different. Doesn't matter if you carry or not, don't be sheep is what I'm trying to say.

I hope that none of you have been a victim of a violent crime and that you never well be. Me...it was a lot closer than I care for. I won't go into a big story on it, but will leave it at a violent rapist, who beat his victims to within an inch of their life was after a former girl friend with whom I lived with. Knowing a sick person has been in your home and jacking off your girl friends undies drawer would make any man angry. It was at that point in my life that I started to carry (as did the girl friend). The police where well aware of what was happening, but admitted that they are only reactive. My point? What do or would you do if you where face to face with someone intent of doing harm to you or your loved one? What would you do to protect them if you're not there?

We all keep our G-Machines locked inside and insured. We have locked doors on our homes and security systems for protection. Heck, we even wear shoes to protect our feet. Why wouldn't you protect your right to life in every way possible? I know that some people are not comfortable with guns and I understand that. Still they should have some level of protection.

The talk of limiting magazine capacity won't solve anything. Anyone can drop a mag and insert another rapidly with practice. Doesn't matter if it's a hand gun or an AR style rifle. I'm not the fastest guy out there, but it takes me about 2 seconds with my Colt M4 and less with my SIG P226. If you do carry and are forced into a employ your hand gun defensively, you know you're probably not going to connect with every round. Scarey as you are fighting for you life. You probably won't have the opportunity to reload or may not have a second magazine. In that type of a situation you'll want as many rounds as your gun is capable of holding, so you can connect and eliminate the threat.

Talk of banning AR style rifles is equally as silly. Your washing machine can be made into a bomb. No joke and it doesn't take much. Every time you walk into the local Gas N Go you have all the items needed to make several types of weapons or explosive. A weapon that can cause a great deal of damage is always accessible is my point.

Yes, I am Pro Gun. Why? I'm a realist and I know that there are dangers in life and realize that bad people will do me harm if I allow it. I do all I can to protect my loved ones and myself from harm on every level. I even protect you and your family every time you are a passenger on my airplane...yes, I have a gun in the cockpit. I am not a bad person because I carry or because of the type of firearms I own.

Guys, don't count on someone else for you safety. Be aware and be prepared. If a firearm isn't for you fine, but respect those who are. They are good people to. Be smart and educate your self on guns, even if you are against them. If you own one, practice with it and be proficient. Seek out additional training and educate your children on them (speaking safety here). Let's be smart about it.

I've said this previously -- that the mere mention of a ban would be a boon for sales... Well -- check out this headline!


http://www.latimes.com/business/mone...,7596545.story

The crazy run was on 30 round magazines which can't be found anywhere. Seems like anything that holds more or less is still to be had.

Funny how the media can't get things right. The Bushmaster used was an XM15 not an AR15. Maybe Google isn't working on their end. :rolleyes:

Does the media ever get anything right?? :lol: :lol:

The entire post was well said Curtis :thumbsup:

To back the mag capacity debate, when shooting league with my .45 we shot one series that had a timed 10 yard standard torso target, you shot 12 rounds, 6 rounds in two mags, start with a mag in the gun chamber open gun on the table, hands in the air, commence on the firing line signal with 8 seconds to complete the series. All but a few of the 40 shooters could complete that successfully. I'm not tooting my horn but pressing the point of semi-auto and low capacity mag capabilities, 70% of the time shooting that series I would put all 12 in the 10 ring (target also has an X ring). I'm also pretty fast with a revolver and speed loaders. Point is with a little practice the speeds can be surprising.

If some looney-toons wants to - he could easily kill all the kids and teachers in two or more classrooms of kindergarten and first graders with a friggin' baseball bat!

What's a bunch of kindergarten kids going to do to an adult bent on committing mayhem (sorry Stielow!)? ZERO...

The whole raging gun debate is just that - a raging debate. It solves absolutely nothing.

Today we read about a whack job ex con killing volunteer firefighters... It never stops. His gun was ILLEGAL! Does he care about laws? He killed his own grandmother with a f'n' hammer! Laws mean nothing to people like this.

Until people of the world get that, there's not much to talk about.

One of the fundamentals that is consistently over-looked/not factored or what-ever IMO is the people making the laws look at the punishment from THEIR perspective. What is a deterrent to a law abiding citizen is not in the least a deterrent to a seasoned criminal. Until we start writing laws and delivering punishment that gets the attention of the seasoned criminal we're just pouring water in a bucket full of holes.

Crazy people will kill using whatever method available. The worst school homicide in the US was not gun related.

The lousy reality is you can't protect everyone from everything and the more you try to the less freedom will remain.

There isn't one magic bullet that will cure the ills of society. It's not that I believe we should do nothing but we should all take a breath and make sure we are thinking clearly when we discuss what to do.

I own guns. I think anyone without a criminal record by the age of 30 who goes through proper training should be allowed to conceal cary. I also don't think that weapons that are easily converted to automatic or that can accept magazines over 10 rounds should be sold to the public. JMO and those things won't solve anything over night but in the long run it couldn't hurt.

But then again I think we should stop sending billions in foreign aid to other countries while we ignore the mental health of our own citizens. If we cracked down on people who game the entitlement system and focused funds on those members of society who really can't function on their own that sure wouldn't hurt.

The list of things that need to be fixed are long. Where to start?

Just as info I posted the worst school disaster info below.



The Bath School disaster is the name given to the violent attacks of May 18, 1927 in Bath Township, Michigan, perpetrated by Andrew Kehoe, that killed 38 elementary school children,[Note 1] six adults, and also injured at least 58 other people. Kehoe first killed his wife, fire-bombed his farm and set off a major explosion in the Bath Consolidated School, and then committed suicide by detonating a final explosion in his truck. It is the deadliest mass murder in a school in United States history.[1]
Andrew Kehoe, the 55 year old school board treasurer, was angry after his defeat in the Spring 1926 election for township clerk. He was thought to have planned his "murderous revenge" after that public defeat and he had a reputation for difficulty on the school board and in personal dealings. In addition, in June 1926 he was notified that his mortgage was going to be foreclosed.[2] For much of the next year, a neighbor noticed Kehoe had stopped working on his farm and thought he might be planning suicide. During that period, Kehoe carried out steps in his plan to destroy the school and his farm by purchasing and hiding explosives.
Kehoe's wife was ill with tuberculosis, and he had stopped making mortgage payments; he was under pressure for foreclosure. Some time between May 16 and the morning of May 18, 1927, Kehoe murdered his wife by hitting her on the head. On the morning of May 18 at about 8:45 a.m., he exploded incendiary devices in his house and farm buildings and the ensuing fire destroyed them.
Almost simultaneously, an explosion devastated the north wing of the school building, killing many schoolchildren. Kehoe had used a timed detonator to ignite dynamite and hundreds of pounds of incendiary pyrotol, which he had secretly planted inside the school over the course of many months. As rescuers gathered at the school, Kehoe drove up, stopped, and used a rifle to detonate dynamite inside his shrapnel-filled truck, killing himself, the school superintendent, and several others nearby, as well as injuring more bystanders. During rescue efforts at the school, searchers discovered an additional 500 pounds (230 kg) of unexploded dynamite and pyrotol connected to a timing device set for the same time as the first explosions; the material was hidden throughout the basement of the south wing. Kehoe had apparently intended to blow up and destroy the entire school.