Mark's motor has ID1300's. Awesome injectors (although not cheap).

Dave

Yea. Very pricey. Like $1800. Just sold mine and going with the ID1700. Even pricier at $2000. Prices like diesel injectors!

Dave Mikels is the guy behind all the power in JA 2.0. The drivability is near perfect. It idles at 750 and will pull from 1000 rpm in 6th gear. This is the 6 year evolution of the LS9 platform. Dave has calibrated my cars for 20 years now. So he is the real deal and really understands the hardware and calibration of engines.

Mark

You guys make an amazing combo! Thanks for the incredible inspiration and continued raising of the bar! I need a ride...lol

John

Awesome. Sounds like this car is amazingly well sorted. Which is not a surprise in the slightest.

Thanks for the response.
With JA "finished", is a new project starting any time soon? Care to offer a teaser at what might be next?

Bill

A few photos of JA 2.0 from todays track event at Waterford Raceway. The ambient temperature was a steamy 90 degrees, but JA ran cool (203 F peak) on E85 consuming a tank full each 15 minute session. We will definitely need to bring more E85 for the next track event!

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/...2/928A3522.jpg

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/...2/928A3460.jpg

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/...2/928A3490.jpg

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/...2/928A3499.jpg

Thanks for posting Gordon. :thumbsup:

:thumbsup: Car has a beautiful stances too..

We had a good test at Waterford. I had some good data and some not so good data.

The cooling system worked great.

The ambient air temp was 87 F. On a 15 minute session the oil temp stabilized at 207 F and the oil temp was 231 F.

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/q...psikmgi5mp.png

Now the bad news the fuel pressure is still falling off with high load.

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/q...psqaj3kuxz.png

All this data is off my built in Race Technologies dash. It is nice to look at data after the test and have to relay on looking at the dash.

That's an excellent output for the track day. Got some decent logging done.

Oil/Water temp look great for the temp and track duty. What is your prediction on the falling fuel pressure?

The car voltage is staying rock solid at 13.4 volts. I think I need to add another boost a pump or go to bigger fuel pumps. I will add two channels to my data logger to look at voltage at the pumps and make sure that is not the issue.

I also need to check the calibration of the sensor. I have chased data before to find out it is a sensor.

The learning curve on the fuel system on the E-85 has been a little rough but the results on track look very good so I’m sticking with it.

On the positive side the C&R cooling stack look like they work well and the bigger intercooler bricks are also keeping the inlet air temps down.

Mark

I had the opportunity to watch the runs on Monday. What a great car to watch on the track.

I really am enjoying getting some knowledge dropped on me before I start my own journey with learning E-85 and the fueling requirements of a big power plant.

Hard to see from the logs on the screen. Was the pressure dropping the entire time during the pull or did it start to catch back up (possible issues of pump reaction being a dead head setup vs a return style fuel setup)?

You said you are using E-85 from the pump correct? Your system using a GM computer so have a flex fuel sensor installed to help the tune correct for variance in the ethanol content? (believe i've seen as low as 70% from other boards on the ethanol content).

William

Is the next Stielow Camaro in the works yet?
Crossing my fingers for twin turbo awd on Z/28 struts since Mark likes to push the engineering envelope :)

All of the calc's should be right for E85 but the pressure is still falling during high-power application. Mark has been steadily increasing the power going to the pumps and doing some diagnostics/datalogging to see where the weakness lies. This has definately been the most challenging project to get sorted. Big power = no Easy Button.

We've had no issues running returnless fuel systems - even with big power / high flow - when you stage secondary pump to come in early enough to maintain stable control as fuel flow rates rise.

In Brian Thomson's Corvette, we have basically the same engine as JA2.0, but are running dual TI 267 pumps with staged Vaporworx PWM controlled system. Same E85 - same flow rate requirements. So far, has performed perfectly with no pressure falloff - although we have not yet tracked the car (coming soon!).

On both cars I integrated the flex fuel sensor to allow seemless transition between pump premium, E85 and everywhere in between. Mark even has the ECM measured ethanol percentage displayed on his dash. Yes, there is variation in ethanol %, but system accommodates all levels without issue.

Like Carl says - big power & high flow rates mean no easy solution - but we will get there!

Carl has been great to work with as development continues on Jackass 2.0 and TA Corvette systems. Having a system that will meet WOT E85 fueling requirements while delivering stable flow rates on gas @ idle WITHOUT fuel heating issues is an incredible demand. All this would not be possible without his support.

Primary reason we went to E85 was not for power, but for cooling. Power gains are just side benefit (6-8% is what we measured).

I think we have reached a practical limit for the Thomson Automotive 7.0L SC package. We've passed point of diminished returns as far as lap time reduction (will still help in 1/4 mile and standing mile events). However, as Mark can also attest - being traction limited to ~80-100 MPH is something you'll never tire of!

Dave

I don't think I've ever owned anything that would spin the tires at 100mph with bald tires on the snow! Yeeehaw!

Carl has been excellent in my dealings with him so far as well. We discussed two CTS-V versus three when I had ordered. As plans always seem to change and the project snowballed even further, I'm going to be pushing the two more than I had originally intended.

I am very aware of the benefits on the sensor, and sadly holley has not made a compatible sensor available yet on their standalone engine management systems, but I am told they are working on it. 6-8% when you're talking 1000+rwhp cars adds up however. I'm hoping to make north of 1000rwhp on pump 93, so the benefit of E-85 with cooling as well as the benefit of resistance to pre-detonation, I'm hoping we can add timing and see more than just the 6-8% gain. I'll find out more when I get to testing and maybe by then holley will have their system of ethanol content working by then!

Looking forward to traction at 100mph issues!

William:drive:

We are adjusting timing based on ethanol % and 6-8% is typical. I've never seen E85 gain more than that without additional airflow (in this case would be boost).

Did find higher percentages of ethanol (up to 85%) to be very knock resistant - when trying to hook the spark curve on dyno, would reach point where additional timing made no more power - but still did not generate knock. On pump gas typically start running into knock issues simultaneously with power gains flattening out - if not before (this on high cylinder pressure engine).

You are correct though that while 6-8% may not sound like much, when added to numbers in the mid 900's, it's quite a bit!

All numbers I quote are engine dyno as well - 1000 RWHP is a staggering number - and nearly impossible to achieve while maintaining the driveability level we have with this package.

Dave

Yea I dont suspect it will have the driveability as that package, but should be ok. Nice thing about turbos vs blowers is I can be more selective of when it makes big power.

I fully suspect that 1000rwhp will be in the neighborhood of 20psi, but time will tell.

William

Thanks for the compliments William.


If anyone is running a Holley Dominator ECU using a VaporWorx controller purchased prior to November 2014, please send the controller back for modification. There is something in the Holley trigger that causes VW controller damage after a short time. It will simply stop working. There does not appear to be any problem with the HP systems.

Thanks Dave. It's been a pleasure working with you and Mark.

Now, if TI would just make a real module with twin 267's both the flowrate and control challenges would be covered. There's likely not enough aftermarket demand to justify the tooling costs.

So, yes, we can do not only dual 267's, but triple setups as well. Be on the lookout for a mean grey TT G8. He ran the Power Tour with the triple setup with barely enough time after the complete build to drive to the start. No problems for a system that can flow enough fuel to power well over 1800hp @ 60amps. These are the same pumps used in the Hellcat, so there is OE reliability + plenty of overhead.

.....and there's new products coming :)

I'm going to the Fore module that will allow me to have 2 TI 267 pumps and I will keep on of the CTS-V modules for primary pump. So when I'm cruising the car will run off the CTS-V pumps then once I hit boost I will have 2 TI 267 pumps plus the CTS-V module.....That should fix it.....:guns:

I would like to thank Carl for all the time on phone calls on sorting out my fuel system. It is fun to talk to a guy that gets it.

On a side note I hurt the yoke on the drive shaft. So out with the cast Spicer part and in with a 4130 part. I pulled the trans and D&D Perf looked over the trans and it was fine. I drove the car this morning and it is dead quiet. We found the issue after the Waterford track testing and the driveline developed a ticking noise.

So the development continues. Test car, break parts, fix, repeat.

No problem Carl!

I'll look at the date on my box and see, but I may have to send it back to you yet again to have it modified if that's the case. I still have a bit of time before the car is running so no big rush.

I like this idea of single CTS- V as primary and secondary being bigger pumps. I'll have to look into the Hellcat pumps and see what can be worked out.

The pump in the Hellcat module is a 267 but the output is reduced to about 318lph due to jet pump needs. Fitting the Hellcat module is tough due to the angled hat.

Yours was April 2014, so it's needs a bit of surgery.

Okay that was funny and I want to Thank you and all of the guys here that are sharing information with us. I have learned so much reading your threads and who I need to go to when I need the right part.

Thank you again for sharing your knowledge

Lets take our discussion to my thread! I'll make a comment there!

Appreciate the help and thanks Mark for letting us hijack your thread with fueling tech.

William

Hi Mark
I'm thinking of buying a new 2015 Z/28 and was just wondering if you guys have something better coming down the pipe next year that would make me regret it?

We always have something better......:relax:

Is the iphone 6 better that the iphone 5...? Depends on what you like or need.

The 2015 Z/28 is a very low production one off car. It is special. It is a pure drivers car. I feel the cars coming in the future will not be as true of a driver's car as the 14/15 Z/28. Will the future have faster cars...maybe. Will they be as raw and fun to drive as a Z/28. That is for the public to tell us. I can say the 2014/15 Z/28 is an iconic car and will have a place in the automotive history books.

On a side note with the goverment required fuel economy ratings coming these type of cars are going to be a lot more expensive in the future. We have to sell a lot of high fuel econmony cars to balance out the high performance cars.

Mark

I love to hear ( read ) the passion when you talk about these cars. That's why your builds are so amazing. Keep Chevy on the cutting edge!

Mark I use the Walbro 460 E85 pumps with the Fore FC3 Triple Pump Staged Controller. Even though I am staging the pumps the biggest issue is the big amperage draw as pressure demand increases. On the Walbro's at say 6bar a pump is pulling 19amps or it pulls just over 15amps at 3bar.

Although my system runs well with the multiple Walbros I just came across the Asnu FP580X (E85) pump. By comparison it is only pulling 12.5amps at 6bar and 7.7amps at 3bar.

Thank you for your insight.
Do you feel the Z/28 is a better track car than a used Zr1 corvette?
Also for race track performance is there a advantage to getting a Z/28 with no air conditioning?
I was leaning towards not getting ac because of weight and possible hp loss but curious to know what the real answer is.
Thanks for your advice. Means a lot coming from the man behind the Z/28 :)

The best bang for your buck right now is a used C-6 Z06 with Carbon Brakes for a track car. You can also pick up a used ZR-1 for less than a Z/28. Which one is "better", if you want to be real fast get the ZR-1 if you want to just do lapping days and have fun the Z06 or Z/28 are better track cars.

If you want a new car our best track car value is a 1LE Camaro. Great cars very durable.

On the A/C question, if you are only going to track a Z and you want the rarest one get no A/C. If you ever want to drive it on the street get A/C and the other 5 speakers. It makes a much nicer car.

Mark

I will just place this here.
e85 locator page, with option for a mobile app

The 1LE really surprised me, great value without a doubt. Very adequate track car and somewhat affordable if you happen to wad it up.

I'm guessing the Camaros might be easier to service than the Vettes???

Thanks Mark
Still debating what to do.
My wife gave me permission to buy a new Z/28 but said I have to sell all my other cars which includes my 67 Firebird that I have owned since I was 13.
Wish I could test drive one. Then I would probably for sure would do it.
My local track is Laguna Seca so a few track days a year would be fun :)
Never would have thought this would be such a hard decision.

Are you allowed to say that there are no Z/28's in GM's future?
I like the look of the 2015 Camaro better than the new one.
Thanks for helping me with your insight on things

Nice pump, but it may be difficult to find a replacement. The Walbro's are everywhere.

VaporWorx can PWM the Walbro 450's as well, dual and triple setups. That limits the power to the pumps to only what's needed, so if the engine does not need all that fuel, the controller will throttle the power to the pumps to only what's needed.

We had a good test day at Waterford Raceway. It was a bit cold but we still got to run 3 15 minute sessions. We finally have enough fuel flow. Now we are refining the system.

The event Sunday was the Shelby Club. Great group to run with. The advance group is one of the best groups I have ever ran with. I would like to go to a few more of their events next year.

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/q...psqnhyrogb.jpg

Now that I know it will stay together we are taking it to Gingerman this Sunday for the true test.

On our test at Waterford the car is working great. I know it was a cool day but on a 60 degree day the water was 180 F and the oil got up to 195 F after 15 minutes. All the systems on the car work great.

Off the data trace the car is cornering at 1.15 G and braking at 1.3 G so once I get the chassis dialed in we should be doing better.

Mark