Hate to say it but you need to buy shocks on par with that motor big boy. You're not exactly playing in the little league anymore.

It's only money. :bang:

The motor sounds sooo good, you'll be under 1:30's in know time once you acclimate to the "new" car. :thumbsup:

Thanks Sieg... now I have my next winter project lined up... get rid of the leaf springs and do some kind of 4 link set up and new shocks... time to do more research.

Hope to visit with you at PIR in August or September possibly...

Here are the track days currently on my calendar:

July 26-27 Oregon Raceway Park (Oregon Porsche Club of America)
August 5 PIR (marquecarsusa.com)
August 17 Ridge Motorsports Park (BMW club)

Might add something in September as well. The Porsche and BMW clubs run very good track days, and have a group of strong instructors who tend to cross over between clubs. A good instructor is very valuable, I've found, especially when learning tracks. And they're more than happy to have cars of other makes sign up - they need a significant number of attendees just to break even on those events.

The ORP events usually require you to be signed off at least as an intermediate, solo driver to be able to run. ORP is a pretty technical track, a total blast to drive but not easy to learn on.

The Marque Cars event is associated with the annual Rose City Corvette Club get together the weekend before, so most of the cars are obviously Vettes of various kinds. There's usually a low-key Autocross event the day before (Sunday).

The Marque Cars club, and the BMW club, have allowed passengers to ride along in the past. The other clubs don't.

When it comes to suspension mods on your car, I wouldn't be too quick to go multi-link rear. My previous 2nd gen used Global West CAT5 leaf springs in the rear, and I think it was pretty much as stable as my current car with DSE Quadralink. The front end on the first gens is where to focus first - the stock suspension geometry is an all-purpose disaster, with terrible camber curves and wildly unstable roll center. Longer spindles and/or lower upper control arm mounting are first order of business.

I think some of that bouncy feel you're attributing to shocks might just be the track itself. In particular, there's a section of the back straight at PIR, just past turn 9, that is bumpy and uneven. It makes any car feel spooky and unstable, and it's worse in cars like ours where you sit up higher. The turn 2-3 area is a bit that way as well.

Scott… thanks for the info on the tracks days... I’ve been wanting to try someplace other than PIR. I will research those tracks you metioned and then make plans to attend one of the events. I remember seeing your car outside the main entrance at SEMA a few years ago and it looked great! Look forward to meeting you, and seeing your car run :thumbsup:

I have done quite a bit of work on the front of my car so far, including... Global West tubular upper and lower A-arms, ½” taller than stock upper ball joints, Global West solid aluminum body bushings, Hotchkis 1-1/8” diameter front sway bar, 600 LB front coil springs, Bilstein tuned shocks, and recently changed to the Fox tuned shocks.

In the back I have Hotchkis drop multi-leaf springs, rear sway bar, sub-frame connectors and a DSE 4 pt roll bar. I do like the way the car handles with my current set up. The car handles good, feels stable, and is nicely balanced since I put in the lighter weight LS engine.

The only problem now is with the extra HP of the new engine the leaf springs seem to be wrapping a little under hard acceleration. I had to reposition the rear axle down 3 degrees to compensate. I will look into the CAT5 leafs you mentioned… maybe that is the solution. I just don't want to have any driveline issues out on the track.

I’m really not sure what to think of the Hotchkis Fox shocks… I have driven out at PIR lots of times with the Bilsteins and didn’t get near as much bounce. Both shocks feel stable but I just like the feel of the Bilsteins. What kind of shocks are you running?

Dale,

My '71 was originally set up with Hotchkis front and rear springs, Hotchkis/Bilstein shocks, Hotchkis front sway bar. It worked pretty well, but the rear dipped quite a bit on acceleration, and I didn't get the quite the drive off corners I thought I should. The CAT5 springs were quite a transformation - the rear dip was gone, the car really hooked off corners, and the overall feel was more stable and locked down. On the flip side, the ride was significantly harder on the street, but not enough that it bothered me.

The CAT5 springs use solid spherical bushings at the spring eyes, which eliminate twist along the long axis of the spring and thus in theory reduce leaf-to-leaf rubbing and binding. And they're very stiff in the front half of the spring, so the spring acts more like a control arm, doesn't wind up much at all, and has greater anti-squat effect. It all seemed to work very well for me, at least in that application.

As I said, on the 2nd gen I used the Bilsteins to begin with, and later switched to adjustable AFCOs sourced from Global West. The AFCOs were an improvement, but not huge. On my current '69, I use Detroit Speed double adjustables. I set them initially to the baseline that Kyle and Stacy gave me, and I've never had to move them more than one click from that baseline. That's one of the advantages of buying from a premium vendor like DSE - they've done almost all of the testing and experimentation I'd have to do myself.

Just my opinion, if it was me I'd go back to the Bilsteins for now, sort out what you want to do with the rear suspension, then work with a trusted vendor to see what shock package matches your combination and goals.

On the front end, the only thing I'd take a look at is more spindle height - even taller ball joints. The factory geometry is so far gone that even a 1/4 inch more can help a fair amount in stabilizing the roll center. One company that flies below the radar in terms of brand recognition, but really delivers on practical value is: http://www.scandc.com. I used adjustable upper control arms and taller ball joints from them on my '71, to great effect. Mark, the owner, knows what he's doing. I'd give him a ring and let him know your current setup and goals; at the least, you'll be more informed after the call than before :)

Edit:

Oh, when it comes to trying a new track, I'd start with RMP. Beautifully constructed track, both more challenging and more rewarding than PIR, but still wide and safe. Near Olympia - probably less than 2 hours from you - and still plenty of amenities relatively close by. Biggest problem with ORP is that it's in the middle of nowhere. Nearest hotel is 8 miles away and only 10 rooms, for instance, and there's gas at the track, which is good because nearest station with premium is 30+ miles away!

Dale - I have Global West rear leafs, not sure how they compare to the new generation of part numbers. I just emailed them my part number (31-245-1) and asked them to translate my spring rate to their new part #'s. They're relatively stiff, I'd guess they're L2's.

I've been considering the Cat5 bearing/bushing because of this marketing statement:
With my transverse muffler a panhard rod or Watts Link isn't an option.

You're more than welcome to drive my car if the springs end up being what you're considering.

Marc at SC&C is a wealth of knowledge, just be prepared to spend 45-60 minutes on the phone and have a notepad handy. :thumbsup:

You guys all realize that Fox manufactures the shocks for Ridetech right? You know, the "must have" shocks of many of today's pro touring cars?

I believe that JRI's can be upgraded from single to the multi-adjustable with what you already have... can you do that with the Fox/Ridetech/Hotchkis? Just thinking out loud...

The CAT-5 is also an awesome leaf spring setup and about as good as it gets for leafs. Some killer cars run that.

Yes, as an old off-roader I've known Fox for years. But Fox, like with any good shock manufacturer, you're not going to get their best valving with their "entry level" performance line. I've also ran Bilsteins on a car (in the 80's) and there's something magical about the way their valving ramps up as you push the vehicle harder.

The KTM 300 Dale just picked up has exceptional suspension and I'm anticipating he'll expect similar performance from the shocks on his Camaro now that he's taken it to another level with a killer motor and trans combo he's exploited the chassis' weaknesses. IMO - He's ready for serious 3 way valving and another brake upgrade won't be too far off. In no way am I knocking Ridetech/Hotchkis/Fox as their 3-way products appear to perform well as do a few others. It's big money, but I've never regretted an investment in top-notch shocks.

You can make up for a weak motor with good brakes and suspension............with my limited experience it doesn't work the other way around. :headspin:

Good to know regarding the GW Cat5's - Thanks :thumbsup:

Mary Pozzi seemed to do just fine with leaf springs...



Just sayin'



:secret:

Love this build, keep up the great work. We are looking at doing a dry sump set up and also mounting the tank in the trunk. Question for you, how do you fill the tank? It looks like the lid sits under the package tray panel and kinda hard to get at.