Just as a comparison, this is how USCA does it. First off, there are 3 run groups to chose from, novice, advanced and expert...you choose your group and state your case and they decide if you chose correctly.

Then each group goes out and runs one session each. As you are lining up in grid to start the next session, they line you up based on your last session's fastest lap time. Basically putting the faster of the run groups cars up front and the slower of the groups cars towards the rear.

This way one you are on the track the faster cars can take off and run with like kind cars while the slower cars don't hold anyone up.

It worked BRILLIANTLY...

Paying for track time only to be held up by slower cars lap after lap after lap SUCKS...been there, done that. I can count on one hand the number of times I had to wait out a couple of corners behind a slower car for a point by section in a full 5 session day and I think the only time I pointed anyone by me was when I was working on trying some different things that weren't really working well for me and I didn't want to hold anyone else up while trying them.

I found that we'd be lining up with cars that we could run with and have a blast every time out...SO much better than some of the SCCA and NASA track days I've been too.

Really?? I'm pretty sure he owns it.



That's the fun part about track days - and also the challenge. Everybody is running some different weight car - different power - different tire sizes / brands - rear end gears - trannys. It's not like racing with a sanctioning body and rules. Thus it's not really even worth talking about what times someone else did -- or what you're doing. It's just FUN.

I.E., I'd take the Lotus and after the first corner it would be "see ya"... and it's a whopping 252 horse power. Put Stielow in a stock Miata and I probably couldn't stay with him. LOL

or just buy a new Z28

i knew that :catfight:

Hey I saw this guy at Mini Nats....

Not sure if I met you, but I am guessing I dig your car based on your username.

:bigun2:

Yes you did! And the Lotus too!






http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/a...us/file-12.jpg

Hey Charley!! You're friends told me to say HI!







http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/a...r/IMG_6003.jpg

My dad kept bringing up your yellow car, he was like man did you see that thing run? It sounded great!! He has been in the club since like the 4th mini nats... SO he has been around this stuff for a while...

I see a green sticker on your car though, so that would probly explain why I never saw you. I was also in green group so we probably never got bunched together.

I spent the night in Watsonville or near there -- at the Garlic Farm.... LOL


We'll all be at the October Thunderhill event with any luck. Would love to meet you and your Dad.

Green for cash!!

It hasn't been 100% determined yet - but it "appears" the Mustang motor has a valve train geometry issue. That would certainly explain why the valve train issues of tips coming off valves and two broken rocker arms.

Given the fact that it's been out of the car and back to the engine builder 3 times (now on it's fourth) for valve related issues/head issues... Needless to say it's not going back there this time.

So possible contributing factors are?
Rocker arm ratio
Pushrod length
Valve stem length
Valve spring coil bind
Head being surfaced

???

Any of those singly or a combination... it's going to an engine builder to determine the cause and get it corrected. Of course --- ANY really good engine builder is going to do a complete rebuild. And I wouldn't take it to somebody that wouldn't want to go thru it from top to bottom and check everything. That's where these stupid little "mistakes" get expensive. There's no reason for it other than being sloppy with the build.

The heads being surfaced -- and block decking - can create an issue where the manifold starts to not fit. All machining of these surfaces - and which type of rocker used - and the length of the valve - and the spring height - and the retainer choice... and on and on -- all affect the geometry. Its so friggin easy to check that a kindergartner could do it. It's easily corrected with the correct length of valve - or use of lash caps - or the right length push rod etc. But a guy has to check it to know.

What? You mean that same kindergartener that eats glue, can barely poop in the toilet and cries when mommy drops them off?

You would be surprised what a lot of guys miss. Some hard heads I see always have that "what the F do you know? Ive been running this combo for 30 years". attitude. Attention to detail goes to the waste side when dead lines and stress comes into play.

My machinist is lke a surgeon. He digs and digs till he finds a problem, not say "oh, I don't know why must have been a fluke"
Im not saying he is the best but he works hard and it shows.

Everybody's engine builder is the "BEST".....So far - in 40 years of doing this - I've only ever had one guy build me multiple motors that have never had a single issue. I've had motors built by Dale Green... That motor was a complete and utter disaster. I had a motor built by a famous racing stable out of Tacoma Washington... it lasted about 300 miles... first oil change there was so much metal in the pan it looked like I hit a gold mine.... They managed to forget to install spring seat retainers so the springs ate the shims.... I had a big inch small block built where the guy didn't fly cut the pistons so the much larger valves kissed the "factory" cuts... But NEVER have I had a motor back to a builder 3 times for a similar issue and have it summarily overlooked.

So green is for cash.

That's a pisser. Are you limited on motor choices, cubes , etc?

No rules.


If this motor isn't hurt real bad - I'll just have it gone thru - straighten out the issue if any and stick it back in. Next time - it gets replaced.

Thought it was the fuel pressure regulator?

That went first.... and we were able -- should say Ron was able -- to adjust the float levels so I could run (mostly WOT) with the 14 psi of fuel the carb was getting. I'd just go on grid as the last car was leaving so I didn't have to idle... roll out and rip it. Ran fine as long as I was into the throttle.

I was on track when that POS let go.... and I thought maybe that I was low on fuel as that's what it acted like... but the diaphragm had just gone hard and it quit regulating. I'm running an electric pump - so the car needs a FP regulator.

They got the pan off and the intake -- and there's no blued journals or beat up rods... and no big chunks of metal - so at first glance - it appears it's just the valve train issue...

If you don't have an engine guy in mind, I'd recommend Bob Wirth. He's out of Hayward California. He rebuilt the Roush Yates engine for Mike Maier after he hurt it, it built another engine for a friend of ours that's 310cid SBF and over 500hp. He's also really well known on the sprint car/ midget scene so Ron Sutton may know who he is as well.

He was first choice but can't do the motor in time. He's too busy right now. So the motor is going to Borello's

Ahh, to bad.

You mean Borrelli's in San Jose? Let me know.....I should be heading that way on Friday.

No that's not who I mean.

Tony Borello Race Engines
Garden Valley, CA


++++++++++

Do you find it tough to lead.... when you don't know where you're going???


LOL

You guys pulled the pan before pulling a valve cover ? Anyone cut open the oil filter ? Seems to me if you drop the float level you run the risk of leaning it out.

It shouldn't be suffering a valve train failure every other event unless Weld can't adjust valves. I could build something in my garage that would survive longer than this POS. The engine has to run how long? 60 minutes a weekend?

I agree with having it completely gone through. One lack of discipline effects the rest.

Greg, did you ever talk to Tony about adjust the valves since they are titanium and this is a mechanical?

Try to keep up --- a valve cover was the first thing pulled.





No - they're messy and our hands would get all oily. There was metal on the magnetic oil pan plug... good enough clue for me.







Never broke a rocker arm in a motor while adjusting floats before.... YOU? LOL

It won't lean out when you have 14psi of fuel pushing past the seats - lowering the floats just kept it from flooding out. When you crack the throttle WOT -- there was PLENTY of fuel. The problem was TOO MUCH fuel not too little.

In all the years I've been messing with stuff -- I've never suffered valve train issues. That would include when I campaigned a D/Gas car. Adjusting valves is a skill that school girls are taught. This isn't an adjustment issue. It's a geometry issue.

Titanium is about weight... not about how they're adjusted. They have hardened steel tips just like any other valve. In fact - that was the first issue way back - a tip "fell" off... Tony said "it happens".

I'll know what the story is in a few weeks and will post up what we find out.

A majority of the valve is titanium which means it could expand at a different rate effecting the adjustment. I doubt it's adjustment but I can tell you that there is a major difference between the lash adjustment on an all aluminum engine vs. a steel block with a mechanical, cold.

Oddo's numbers were used. .018 and .014 if I remember right

In FAIRNESS to Charley.....

He lives a much more interesting life than some of the rest of us do... Kinda like the Dos Exquis beer guy... So while we sat and discussed the poor little Mustang HE was off at the Monterey Historics doing actual REAL fun car stuff.

Another lat-g member was there too...
 

@hotrodmagazine: #Can-Am at #pebblebeach @MazdaRaceway http://t.co/KQSgmYkBEd

tight or a dry guide can cause a cap to pop. or it floated valves? was it an exhaust valve?

that's what we all strive to grow up to be right? problem is doing before our expiration date.

The high cost of racin'..... I'm now into motor rebuilds - more than I paid for the car. Let's hope I get more than one or two events out of it this time around... Three would set a new record.

LOL


My instructions to the builder (Tony Borello).... "I don't care what it costs as long as I can pull away from Gaetano".... His response... "that's childs play".



EEEEEEEHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAA

I'm thinking you should buy a Spec Miata and go thrash on that. Heck if you get them to last a couple races you would be way ahead on the game.

Funny...Conversation kinda went like that for me to my builder...."Weld pulled me to turn 7. Lets not let that happen again." :lol:

No need for a Miata --- I have a Lotus 2 Eleven... it just runs and runs and runs and doesn't use any gas - is easy on tires and brakes...

Maybe I'll use the Lotus as #1 car and the Mustang will just sit and wait it's turn as a back up car!?!?!?! LOL





LOL --- funny!

This motor is being completely rebuilt... new rods - new pistons - cam - rockers - valves... bored and balanced of course.... All new from the ground up. I'm so over the other build. When it ran it ran real well -- but lasting more than 3 or 4 hours would be a novel idea.

A more street friendly build? Perhaps a USCA event could be in its future?