Just had to slip that one in there eh

Amps make the starter turn over not volts. Volts can be a good indication but not a certainty. So if everything checks out, take the battery into a parts store. I believe most have a tester that can put a load on the battery. If not, grab the battery out of the wife's minivan and use it. If the car stops having problems, you found the culprit most likely.

With that said, use the multimeter at the alternator and the battery itself. No sense in trusting a gauge when you can measure with amultimeter right at the source. Don't measure at cable ground points. Instead, measure at bare metal spots that should also be grounded. That way you check the ground circuit as well as the output of the alternator.

Check your battery cables.

Ohm your power cables and the ground cables. Also ohm the connection points. By that I mean measure the at the cable clamp and the post or measure the cable and the frame on the ground side. You want it to be less than 1 ohm. Otherwise, the connection isn't as good at it could be.

Before you spend hours and hours --- swap in a different battery and see if there's any improvement. If it improves you've found your problem - if not - now you can spend hours and hours...

My guess is a bad battery ---- and or a starter that is getting heat soaked -- but it wouldn't be heat soak if you can't start it 3 or 4 times COLD... right in a row. ANY good battery should be able to start a car several times without fail.

Thanks Trey :thumbsup:

Sure that isn't an image of me in the garage going hmm, hmm, hmm? :D

Agreed, load test pending..........from an honest source. :D

We're bringing good thoughts your way

Made a little progress today.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-M...-M9W4sTC-M.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-X...-XKDSfnb-M.jpg

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-T...-TjH6nKm-M.jpg

Driver quality at best but an improvement. ;)

..... and surely you used self etching primer for that bare metal....


:cheers: :thumbsup:



Next stop -- SEMA!

Duplicolor :thumbsup:

SEMA :rofl:

Looking at what was there before you made a delete panel

Both look nice But I liked this and the way you kept the knobs

http://sieg.smugmug.com/Cars/69-Cama...IMGP0002-L.jpg

I'll secure some period correct radio knobs and mount magnets on them if that would make you sleep better at night? :D

You're the best Siegla :thumbsup:

Load test performed, 685 amps cranking..........."there's nothing wrong with this battery."

So is it a wiring issue as in insufficient ground or could I have abused the new Powermaster mini-starters solenoid during my attempting to fire the motor circus? :_paranoid

You're guess is as good as anyones.... Grounds are critical - and if you think you have that done properly... then I'd pull the starter and take it and get it tested. Doesn't take long to pull one... Oh wait... that's at my house with the lift! Well... jack 'er up and get busy!

:faint: :unibrow:

http://www.desmonorthwest.com/forums.../bitchslap.gif

I'll check the voltage drops in the leads and go from there. :unibrow:

FWIW - Your guesses appear to be better edumakated than mine on the average. http://www.desmonorthwest.com/forums...es/happy57.gif

You'll need to check voltage drop --- AND resistance (Ohms). High resistance would lead me to check connections for corrosion... tight secured terminals... etc. Then if that all looked good then I'd be yarding the starter for a load test on it.

Now --- you may also have an issue at the ignition switch / wiring to it/to starter. So after you've cranked it 3 times or so --- I'd be feeling for heat in any of the wires out of that switch. Just gently put your hand around the bundle and see if there's a hot one... 'Cause the switch could be breaking down --- or a corrosion issue or connector that's loose etc. Might carry the load once -- then heat up and go apoplectic.

:question: :question: :question: :question: :question: :question:

Christmas break........chill dawgy

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :hail:

I must have missed how the sifter leak got fixed. Can you go over that again?

Not sure what Sieg's ultimate solution was but

I spoke to American Powertrain at SEMA and they now make their own seal for the white lightning shifter to eliminate the problem.:thumbsup:

Good to know... since I didn't let Sieg disuade me from the White Lightning despite the troubles he had and all the in depth research and videos he did.

Maybe a silly question, but do both Modern Driveline and American Powertrain market the White Lightning? Who actually makes it? I bought mine from AP but to date it resides in a box for Someday.

Brain fart on my part I meant American Powertrain. I've decided to use Bruce for my purchase so I had MD on the mind.:willy: :willy:

Ah, right on. It happens! Thanks for the clarification and the lead on the existence of a seal should I need one. They said they would stand behind the part, because I grilled them about Siegs issue and he and I were both talking to them at the time he was posting those vids.

Not really an official threadjack, you know how formal this thread has been:rolleyes:
Quick, post a random picture of a dog, or better yet any picture of nice boobies and nobody will be any the wiser!

As you were.:lol:

:_paranoid :_paranoid :_paranoid :_paranoid

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/l...psf256580b.jpg

:cheers:

Short story - The Hurst Blackjack and the White Lightning shifters were designed by the engineers to be used in the rear mounting position. They must have over-looked the fact that if mounted in the forward position the shifter pivot is directly over the top of one of the larger gears in the case which slings a lot of fluid. In the rear position the Hurst shifter was fine (a little residual around the ball, the White Lightning leaked enough that fluid was on the cover and after probably 2K miles would leave drips on the ground.

Shift action on both was good, there was pro and con (very nit-picky) differences with both with shifter location, throw length, gate width, spring tension, feel, etc. Overall fit and finish of the Hurst piece was better.

I worked closely with Jim Goodlad at Hurst Drivelines submitting internal and external photo's, external video showing the leaking, I also made a plate with gauge to pressurized the case to show it wasn't building excess pressure. Thanks to the input from others and myself Hurst took action and has re-engineered the shifter to incorporate a seal. It's not a fast process but the new shifters should be ready the first of February.

Regarding the White Lightning shifter I was told on the phone by two American Powertrain key people that they personally designed the shifter and there was no was it would leak like the "inferior" Hurst shifter. Identical situation and tests.......the White Lightning leaked twice the amount. Their resolution was poor communication (ignoring) and finally sending me a used Tremec shifter with their adjustable shifter pivot for my $300 investment and inconvenience. Not surprised since American was started by ex-Keisler employees. FWIW - I had ordered and paid a deposit on the Keisler RS600 but it started smelling fishy and canceled.

Hurst on the other hand has went above and beyond the call of fair customer service, they've exceeded expectation and then some. ;)

Good for Hurst.

I also was not overly impressed with Keisler's operation when I did some inquiries with them.

Now we're getting somewhere :thumbsup:

Those puppies look like the ferocious kind that require lots of attention. :D

OK, back to nipples, crap! I meant electrical. :rofl:

Actually had weather that allowed a test drive. Checked the battery voltage after it was off the tender for an hour and had 13.17v, then went on a 20 minute drive with minimal stops only running the heater on low and no other lights or accessories. Shut it down and it restarted with no noticeable starter laboring. Checked the voltage again and it was 13.07.

Check it in the morning and see what it reads.

Also, if your multimeter can read amps, remove the positive lead off the batter and read between the cable and the battery. You should have little to no amperage depending on what stays on while the car is off ie clock or security system. You'll need to make sure the interior lights are off before you do this.

I found a bad relay on a 76 vette that was killing the battery. It was part of the factory alarm system so there was no outward indication that anything was staying on when the car was off. Just had to follow the draw on the power source to its end.

Just checked the battery and it was 12.87v. I'll check again in the morning.When checking for amp draw between battery and positive lead the alarm started chirping real soft at 200u with each increase on the scale it got louder.

This is interesting as I noticed the last time I disconnected and reconnected the battery the alarm didn't trigger as it normally would. So I could have a bad relay in the alarm......possibly one that's the ignition kill circuit? Could this test possibly have reset the system? I doubt I could get that lucky...........but I'd take the win. :D Or a poor alarm ground?

FWIW - It's an older Viper system with shock, motion, ignition kill, and door locks. Time to dig for the alarm manual from twenty plus years ago.........

It's not easy being dump as a stump when it comes to electrical systems. :(

Hmmmm, I'm not sure about the alarm chirping. Were you maxing out the scale as you increased from micro, u, ie did the reading go higher than the scale would allow and that's why you increased the scale?

If nothing else, I'd disconnect the alarm and see if that stops the voltage drop. To me, a 20 year old alarm is nothing but a noise maker. It won't even come close to stopping a thief that wants the car.

Trey, I wasn't focused on the reading when I noticed the alarm, I was listening. I'm guessing I can replicate the condition.

Agree on the alarm system value, but the car thief's we have in our area aren't very sophisticated. The power door locks are the best part of the system. I'll be re-evaluating the system in the near future as I was never impressed with the attention to detail of the original install. The NGR steering wheel quick-release I just installed is a better theft deterrent IMO.

Just check the battery after sitting over night and most of the day without the tender or alarm on and it's reading 12.66v. I'm running the car in to town so I'll check for draw after the trip.

Thanks for the input. :thumbsup:

No starting issues with two restarts on the trip. Checked battery on return 13.44v and after an hour down to 13.08. Watched the volt gauge while driving with heater on low 15.1v, with parking lights or headlights 14.2v. It appears the charging system is OK.

Also checked the battery leads, .6 ohms resistance. Exploration and testing to be continued.............

Okay -- I'll just keep SCUBA diving since you don't seem to need my .02 worth of expertise.


:D

Still waiting for pics. :unibrow:

I haven't forgot........
Holiday stuff was getting in the way of my gear-heading tasks list.

Dawgis - Shouldn't you be tinkering on your friction generators? :D