Sounds like fun. Count me in. :thumbsup:

These rednecks held an event out at El Toro a few weeks ago, and for some reason they decided to pick a '69 Camaro to go to Optima this year. I really need to thank Bill, Yancy and Brian for giving me the opportunity to go out and play the day after SEMA, but now I have to get my pile ready. I'm totally ready to be crushed the resident hot shoes, i.e. Stielow, Hobaugh, or Popp, etc. However, the last thing I want to do is to get embarrassed by something like a Volkswagen Golf.

After El Toro I came away with a couple things I wanted to change to get the car a little more dialed in. This got me thinking about how much I've changed since day one. When it was first done, my end goal was to have a car that was fun to drive with my skill level behind the wheel where I didn't feel like the car was the limiting factor. While I've gotten a bit better at driving the car has come a real long way from what it first was.

While I am nowhere near as detail oriented as Brett Campbell, I figured I might as well keep everyone updated on the evolution of the car's suspension, and discuss a little bit about why I'm making the changes to the car. Hopefully it will be a learning process for all of us. If any of you guys have good suggestions I'll give them a shot. I'm start to amass a collection of springs and bars.

Oh and because you guys all like pictures, here is picture of the newest engine being assembled up at RPM in Santa Clarita.

http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/o...ps472a7d02.jpg

Sweet !

:G-Dub: :G-Dub: ....beautiful!!

Matt, awesome job getting the invite, couldn't go to a better guy, thanks for the ride at RTTC4, I think you have the skills and the car to give em a good show at Optima!

hey matt,

Sorry I couldnt BS with you at work today. But I was busy. Hope everything you bought works out!

Thanks Tom. And, thanks for the laps in the Barracuda, that thing is a blast and you definitely drove the wheels off of it. I was a little scared we might capsize on the back turn around though. :lol:

Yeah, the store was packed with people like me who get lost and distracted and then have a hard time finding what they're looking for. We'll find out today if everything works!


Now for a little carnage from El Toro. Here is the driver side front tire. Not pretty at all.
http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/o...psb18c7ceb.jpg
I need more negative camber. Currently running about a degree, which works well until you really start pushing the car hard. I've done a couple autocrosses with those tires and the tire wear was about where I wanted it.The El Toro autocross exposed a couple of shortcomings with the car though. Rather than just adding more negative camber I'm going to try adding a little more front spring as well. My car transitions into corners and turns in pretty quickly, but the more familiar you become with the car, the more you start to notice that its weight seems to move a little too slowly after you get the wheels pointed, and takes a little too long to set. When you force it into quick transitions you can sometimes feel the front jump or "hop" once before biting. It doesn't push very hard, but it feels like it is having a difficult time handling the weight transfer.

The car also has a little bit of steady state understeer and I will get to that next.

Matt

Ha! You are not the first to fear capsization... and the Cuda often feels as if it IS actually going to have a wheel fall off ...:confused59:

Details on the new rpm motor

RPM has been great to deal with!

It is a 454LS that used to be in Bad Penny except only the crank and rods are the same. :lol:
LS3 block with Darton dry sleeves bored to 4.185" by Steve Demerjian of R.E.D
Wiseco/K1 crank and rods, with custom Ross pistons (the machine shop did the machine work based off of a single old piston the original would be builder sent over so I had to have 4.182" pistons made)
reused the old cam from the 454 LS2, which is 243/259, 114 LSA
RHS LS7 heads, Comp valvetrain, springs, and SS valves
FAST 102 intake and throttle body.

On the loaded chassis dyno at RPM it made 585/565 at 6800rpm. This was a safe break in tune and really the only number we have from a full pull so far. I told them I'd bring it back after putting a few miles on it, I've gotten the miles, just haven't taken the car back. Since it makes enough power right now it hasn't been a priority. I think the motor has been a bit choked down with the old headers on it which are 1-3/4." I just replaced the header gaskets because one had burned through and found they were round 1-1/2" ones. Now I'm curious what it will do with a set of DSE 1-7/8" headers. :G-Dub:

Fixed it for you Matt. Don't want Cole sittin up all night dreaming about a new $40k motor...:D

DSE headers (artwork) will uncork that bad boy :thumbsup:

Thanks Ron. I just went back and fixed that too. Not even 40k could build a 4.85" bore LS


The DSE headers are nice, but 2k could probably be used better elsewhere, like on the Mustang, or for more tires, etc. etc. I am planning on getting rid of the electric cutouts and doing oval exhaust up to the X or mufflers, so I might just cave and get them... I should, but...

Matt, that sounds like a killer setup. Out of curiously, why are you getting rid of the cutouts?

By the way, get the DSE headers, it's only :G-Dub: , LOL. I've been wanting to use the little money guy on a post since I first saw him.

Matt,

What other alternatives (if any yet), are you considering to the DSE's?

Charley has been waiting for a BIG money guy so he can use it in a post....




Nice stuff going on here Mister Matt!

Thanks Greg! I'm trying to get this car to drive as good as it looks.

Al, I'm ditching the cutouts because I never use them. They're heavy, clunky, take up space and even closed I think they leak a little.

Skip, I think the other alternative to the Hooker Super Comps would be a set of Lemons headers. I would spring for the DSE ones right away if I knew they fit with my motor mounts.

So, a couple weeks ago when we were all out at Adams, the lower corner of my brake caliper started hitting the inside flange on the front driver side wheel. I noticed it under hard cornering. I was a little confused at first as to why this would happen now after never having problems in the past. I pulled a couple shims out of the bottom caliper bolt since the wheel hub seemed tight. The fix worked for the weekend, but I figured I should go ahead and replace the hub assembly since the car has seen a few hard miles on it. Today I went out to Adams again, had the same exact problem. Now I'm even more stumped. I changed the brake rotors and pads out over the weekend. I got the rotor and caliper lined up and centered and on the new hub. I figured problem solved, but apparently not. I was running about as little caliper to wheel clearance as possible and never had a problem until now, on just the driver side. What gives? I'm going to swap front wheels side to side, but I doubt that one is bent since I just had tires mounted and balanced two weeks ago. It is possible that there are small differences between the wheels since they were made at different times (one had to be replaced following "the accident") but I doubt it.

That's my rambling for today. Probably doesn't make much sense without pictures. Thinking about what might be wrong is driving me crazy and writing it down seemed like a good idea at the time...

Did the caliper leave a witness mark in the wheel??


It might be helpful to know the clearance when just sitting... and then at least you'd know "something" is moving "X" amount in order to close that gap.

Yes, it left a mark.

I just figured out the problem though. The stud that mounts through the caliper body and onto the adapter started backing out of the adapter. Now to fix it. I tried just tightening it up and it stripped the nut before it, as opposed to working at it should have. I even tried tightening both down evenly so the caliper wasn't skewed. :bang:

Check the other side to make sure it's not close to suffering the same fate. That's one of those deals that happens in pairs.

Will do. Already have a pair of studs on order from Wilwood in case something similar happens in the future. The one I pulled out was toast with the caliper bolt stripped and stuck on. I'm still not sure why the stud started backing out of the bracket. It looked like it had red loctite on it. I suppose lots of heat, vibration and general abuse might have had something to do with it.

Weekly excitement!

The quickest way for me to get onto the freeway in the morning is to go up over a big hill and down the backside to a little known onramp. Right as I get to the top of the hill I downshifted from third to second to keep the car from lugging at around 20mph. After doing so the car just dropped revs like it was in neutral, so I made sure it was in second gear, and it did the exact same thing. Then I tried third. Same issue. None of the gears worked. For those who have never been in a situation like this, it is not a great feeling. At. All. Luckily I was able to coast to the bottom of the hill and call AAA for a tow truck. Even with the car off and in gear, it wanted to roll downhill. I was looking for any visual sign of damage and couldn't see anything. After an hour the tow truck had arrived and loaded up the car. Off to Best of Show we went. When we got there Dick was cool enough to throw the car up on the lift right away to have a look. We were both a bit puzzled as to what the issue was. Nothing seemed to indicate a clutch or transmission failure. No, clunks, leaks, or crunching noises were ever heard. With the car in gear and up on the lift we were able to spin the rear wheels freely. Not a good sign right?

Here is what we found after taking the center section out of the car...
http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/o...psa1202209.jpg

Yes, those are all of the bolts that are supposed to hold the ring gear in place. Over the last two years they slowly managed to all "fall out." My apologies for the poor photo quality from my aging cell phone, but I think you can all see those mangled and pinched bolts. Apparently the last bolt worked its way out right at the top of the hill. I'm not sure I have ever been so lucky in my life! It could have happened at speed while I was at the track, or it could have happened in stop and go traffic during morning rush hour if I had gone the other way.

I understand that these cars need a nut and bolt check on them periodically, and I always go over suspension and other critical parts of the car before driving on a track, but I'm betting none of you guys take your 9" assemblies apart to check over. I wouldn't be that upset about it, but I purchased this part from DSE who uses a Moser Assembly. I think the idea here is that both myself and DSE are putting our trust in Moser. Maybe it is just me, but I don't think something like this should ever happen. Those bolts were a little on the short side, but most of all, they had zero evidence of any type of thread locker, nor did they have washers. It would be one thing if I pulled the housing apart one day and one bolt fell out, but all ten? What if one of the bolts had fallen out and been kicked up into the gears while I was driving? This could have been disastrous. I haven't even called Moser up. Anyone thing it is worth while? I'm sure all I will get is a typical, "we've never seen that happen before," response...

chances are that Moser will not do anything, or at lease require you to ship everything back for inspection. I don't want to say anything negative, but I will tell you that we no longer use Moser, but have had great success with Strange.

Jason

Never ever in all my life around quite a few cars and car guys have I ever heard of anything like that happening. Dead serious. Never.


Matt FTW!!!

Do a little name droppin' on 'em...

O U S C I



:lol:

Since you purchased it from DSE I would call them first. It is there responsibility to warranty their products. Let then handle the claim, replacement and all cost associated. It is clearly poor quality control.

Thanks for the recommendation on Strange. I have slowly been losing faith in Moser. I was a little bugged by my experience with their 9" with Torino big bearing ends. But that was really due to my actual use versus their intended use. I had a friend with one of their full floaters, which he described as a piece of junk that fell apart. In all seriousness I never really considered calling them, because I figured it wouldn't be worth my while, I figured I'd ask in case anyone had an overwhelmingly positive experience.

Greg, I'm not sure it is a good thing or a bad thing that you've never seen anything like this. I seem to have the best luck for having the best outcome from some of the worst luck. :lol:

Skip, I'm not sure name dropping OUSCI would work when they asked what my name was and I said Matt Alcala, spelled M-a-r-k S-t-i-e-l-o-w. :lol:

Marty, I was going to let the DSE folks know about it when they made their way down for Good Guys Del Mar. However they choose to deal with it is fine by me. I did purchase the part back in '08, so I don't expect anything from them, especially if Moser were to just blow them off.

First off - You're very fortunate it went down like it did. Thinking of all the possible worse case scenarios.........this is nothing but pure luck! How would the car react if it happened while you were hard on the throttle through a 3rd or 4th gear sweeper?

You need to address this with Detroit Speed and they apply the leverage on Moser.

I'm no consumer rights or law suit advocate but the negligence and potential liability associated with the components and assembly needs to be addressed by both the supplier and manufacturer IMO.

All said, I'm glad you're able to post your findings and your repair costs are insignificant to other scenarios. :thumbsup:

If it had been a big block, they would have sheared, not fell out. Just thought I'd point that out. :walkingdog:

Never say never :mock:

http://www.elitestangs.com/forum/sho...p-Warning-LONG!

From the photos, it appears the threads failed, no?

:lmao:

And...........the reason they make Magnum condoms. :mock:

Maybe. Or, maybe they would have just rattled loose from the vibrations.

It is unclear to me how exactly the bolts came out. Most are pinched and look like there might not have been enough thread engagement to make the bolts as secure as they could have been, which would have allowed them to "wiggle," and wear away where they did. When we replaced the bolts we bought F9s that were .25" longer, and we put red loctite and AN washers on them.

Rob, I read that link you posted. Sometimes I think you are one of a handful of intelligent Ford guys, and that is mostly because you have a Corvette. :peepwall:

I'm still dumb struck that a relatively big manufacturer like Moser would have a product like this that appears, at least to me, to have more than just a quality control issue.

Had the same thing happen to me last year but I made it home. I looked down my driveway and followed the leak down my street. Then I went to look at my car to see where it was leaking from. The rear gear kicked the only ring gear bolt that completely dropped out through my rear cover.

That sucks, sorry that happen. I use ARP ring gear bolts and always TQ and loctite them in with any kind of performance deal

In all my years I have never seen all of them fall out like that

Dude I am glad you are okay. That is not cool. Wow.

Oh man that is just too good. And likely too true. :lmao: :trophy-1302:

In the end you got lucky it was just hardware that was damaged. However if it was greater I a certain you will feel differently. Just think if you were on the highway and you car broke down and you were rear end. There are so any different scenario's that could have played out. But in the end it was poor workmanship and incorrect hardware and that is something that DSE should be made aware of. How any others are out there with the same problem.

DSE is known for the quality and there quality control procedures and it looks like they might need to update/modify the QC procedures for their vendors. Especially when it could have caused catastrophic damage to your rear end.

Case in point many years ago I had a ring gear swap on my lifted Toyota and the tolerances were set to tight. Which caused the differential to overheat on my drive from Chicago to St Louis. Which smoke the center section, ring & pinion, all bearings and axles. In the end it cost me about $2,000 to repair the damage and a day in court ( yes I won ). So like I said you got lucky.

what issues did you have with the torino big bearing ends and now you are scaring me alittle about my dse moser 9"

I just don't think those bearings are cut out to take the kind of abuse they're given if you have wide wheels and drive the car hard. At the first several events I thought the brakes really sucked. Hell, I had I hard time stopping in the provided area on a Good Guys autocross. With those bearings, fixed calipers and a manual 7/8" master cylinder it was less than ideal for an idiot like me to do, especially if I had to do a panic stop for some reason. Literally every gradual turn would push the pistons back into the rear brake calipers.

If you are worried about youre Moser 9" just check it out before you get the car running and if you feel uncomfortable about it change the bolts out like I had to do.

Matt

Matt,

After giving you so much crap about painting your car purple while we were doing the build, I figured it would only be fair to paint my car in similar fashion. Lets hope we don't start a trend!

-brotourer