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- - 1968 Camaro "Badmotorfinger" v2.2 (https://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php?t=28515)

I'm diggin those lifters! Intake, heads and block aren't bad either...:D

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregWeld (Post 407077)

I only back the best.

It's the way we roll.

:rofl:

I see the builder knows how to do a REAL BBC.....

Close Greg. The saying is, 'cause that's how we (I) roll' :lol:

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregWeld (Post 407077)

I only back the best.

It's the way we roll.

:rofl:

I see the builder knows how to do a REAL BBC.....

No hard feelings man, I'll give you another shot at me once my contract with Mt. Dew and Burger King expires.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron in SoCal (Post 407079)

Close greg. The saying is, 'cause that's how we (I) roll' :lol:

Uh actually Ron, Greg purchased "It's the way we roll."

'cuz that's how we(I) roll' ... is so played!

I think GW also bought 'cuz that's the way we were.'

:woot:

Did Barbara Striesand come w the purchase? :rofl:

Congrats Dave this is awesome, such a hardcore build. Let me know the next time you stop in at Watson, I drive through Concord M-F.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron in SoCal (Post 407090)

Did Barbara Striesand come w the purchase? :rofl:

Perhaps a certain lat-g member might arrange for Babs (as we call her in the biz) to sing at a couple of lat-g members' weddings.

Not sure if she ever sang out the window of a toter....

:lateral:

All this suspence and you're going with Mike @ Watson racing? I for sure was waiting to see a Summit crate eng pic HA HA

In all seriousness you are in great hands, Mike builds some great stuff (as you have seen).. My boss "Lambeck" raced against Mark for years.

At one time Mark and Bob teamed up and Bob drove Marks' white SS/BM National Record Holder 1998 OLDSMOBILE ACHIEVA and set some records with it too. (we have pics with Blackstone/Lambeck on the door) Then Bob bought the car as a roller from Mark. The racing world sure is small one.. Congrats Dave. And if you've never been... make sure you're there for "Dyno day" it's a blast!! I still get excited everytime we dyno one

BTW If you're still looking for used SBC parts let me know what you need.... we got shelves of new and used stuff and maybe we can help. Rons seen it lol

Geeze Dave, thats going to be a killer engine! I'm all kinds of jealous now...:hail:

I'm gunna need to upgrade to keep up with you guys now! Maybe its time to ditch these iron heads on my 388?? haha

Keep us posted!

Quote:

Originally Posted by intocarss (Post 407103)

Yep. 1998 Super Stock World Champ. I believe that car also got 'Best Engineered' Award. I could not stop staring at it. My favorite part? The lightened crank. Man I want that for the centerpiece on my kitchen table...:cool:

BTW Dr. Renner - there was not a single purple anno part on that car :lol:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flash68 (Post 407049)

You guys are frickin hilarious.... thanks for helping make this thread the polar opposite of the tech-heavy and tuning-heavy thread of Todd's. :D

HEY we do what we can, from highjacking threads to talking smack or just completely going off topic... WE'RE HERE TO HELP!!

Maybe Buttonwillow will turn out to be an Oddo vs Pettis vs Blackstone vs Lambeck vs NYES
vs QMP (HELL we'll let the LXs guys play too) grudge fest. ,

Yes Ron that car did win Best Engineered when Big Bob had it

LOL Ron
How bad you want one of them light weight cranks? We got spares!! ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flash68 (Post 407049)

You guys are frickin hilarious.... thanks for helping make this thread the polar opposite of the tech-heavy and tuning-heavy thread of Todd's. :D

Dropped off some more parts today and solidified most of the build plan today. The builder/shop is Mike Blackstone @ Watson Racing & Engineering in Concord, CA. An awesome facility to say the least. 26,000 sq ft full of top shelf parts and machines, yet is a small mom and pop type shop with only 3 employees including Ben Watson the owner. Pete is the general machinist. Not sure how they crank out so much killer stuff but they do. 10, 12, 15, and 18 degree heads on the shelf, blocks of all kinds, and they do Pro Stock, Stock Eliminator, circle track, road race motors... not much they don't do.

Mike has already spent a few hours with me schooling me on 18 degree stuff and engine building in general. He's a super nice guy and already treats me like I've already spent $20k with him before.

Mike is a big fan of Keith Dorton (as am I) and is a big proponent of the 394 SBC, so that's what we are going with after telling him what parts I already have and what my intentions are. Here's my parts list, most of which has been acquired over past couple months:

-PBM iron race block, 350 mains, 4.155 bore, .903 bushed lifter bores, splayed caps on all 5 mains, bore cam tunnel to BBC cam size of 50mm
-3.625 stroke crank (looking for one)
-6" rods (have a set - may use, may not)
-Dished piston to achieve no more than 11:1 (Mike will spec and order)
-GM Bowtie 18 degree heads (being checked and flowed by Mike soon to verify 373cfm flow sheet provided by seller :unibrow:) (ebay)
-GM Bowtie 18 degree intake (ebay)
-Jesel shaft rockers 1.6/1.6 ratio (ebay)
-Morel/Roush Yates .903 roller lifters w/ .180 offset intake (ebay)
-Stainless 18 degree 1-3/4" stepped to 1-7/8" headers w/ merge collectors (they're a tad rough, but scored these on Craigslist in Nascar country for $350!)
-Holley 830HP (I bought awhile ago off Yellowbullet but not sure if will be used)
-Solid Roller spec'd by Mike

I am leaning toward dry sump, but Mike suggested and also likes a wet sump with an external oil pump for what I have and on a budget, so I need to look into that.

When it's all said and done we are shooting for near 700 hp at no more than 7000 rpm on 91 octane. Mike says the 18 degree heads are so damn efficient that they don't need the cubes the 23 degree stuff does, but they can be a little more tuning sensitive, another reason it will be dialed in correctly. And they like a lot less timing than a 23 degree I guess - like 32 degrees. I plan on him dyno tuning it in his shop after assembly. You get the dyno room for the whole day whether it takes 3 hours or 8 hrs to get her dialed in. :woot:

I gotta thank our resident good samaritan and butt of many jokes, Greg Weld. He offered to sponsor me for some stuff after I blew up at RTTC and I am greatly appreciative. He supports this niche a lot thru his time and money and spreads it around to help many people. Ok enough about that guy. Thanks G-Dub. I'll put your decal on my car now (see below). :D

Ok here's the pics so far. Hope I did not disappoint.

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/f...8/DSCF4005.jpg

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/f...8/DSCF4011.jpg

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/f...8/DSCF4009.jpg

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/f...8/DSCF4016.jpg

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/f...8/DSCF3997.jpg

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/f...68/catrods.jpg

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/f...hoto_008-2.jpg

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/f...500_AA300_.jpg

That's awesome Dave,
Looks like you are definitely taking things to the next level. Can't wait to see this one dyno:thumbsup:

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixnina (Post 407145)

That's awesome Dave,
Looks like you are definitely taking things to the next level. Can't wait to see this one dyno:thumbsup:

X2 :thumbsup:

X3 +1 I can't wait to hear on-board audio from the track! :thumbsup:

Dave --

If you want better rods -- go for it! I'll be happy to spring for them.

If you don't use the 6" - just toss them on flea bay or here - and use the dough for something else.

We don't want any excuses for not beating anything and everyone!

:rofl:

Dave - Whats the debate on the rods?

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregWeld (Post 407162)

Dave --

We don't want any excuses for not beating anything and everyone!

:rofl:

Mr. Greg.....Are you throwing down the gauntlet? :woot:

Those Crowers - assuming undamaged - should hold the power just fine...:thumbsup:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sieg (Post 407060)

and you missed the deadline by 1:08.............NICKEL TITS

That motor is so you and your car!

I imagine you've thoroughly enjoyed the quest researching and acquiring parts and getting to know the builder.

Looking forward to this one.

I started that post before midnight but I get distracted looking for my next Nascar part on various sites. :D

Thanks... and you're dead on -- I love the part of researching and educating myself on what's out there and looking for good deals. Others spend their hours in the garage - I spend mine online learning and finding cheap stuff. :thumbsup:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vegas69 (Post 407073)

So this is nascar. :unibrow: Sounds like a solid plan for your Winston Cup car. I'm surprised you couldn't find a wealthier sponsor with your crew chief and driving skill. :lol:

That baby should be all you need to have some fun.

No, if I went Nascar on your ass I'd be 850 hp like Mikey Maier. :unibrow: This is my "street" version. Pump gas and a milder cam so it actually makes good power below 6k rpm.

And I think I did find the right sponsor at the right time... you have seen his whopper of a Toter Home thread haven't you? That wasn't a coincidence! :lol:

Quote:

Originally Posted by sik68 (Post 407099)

Congrats Dave this is awesome, such a hardcore build. Let me know the next time you stop in at Watson, I drive through Concord M-F.

Thanks dude. It really is meant to be a budget 18 degree build, and I am getting most of these parts for incredible prices. Dimes on the dollar. :thumbsup:

I'll let you know next time I go and see Mike... probably a few weeks or when some new parts come in.

Quote:

Originally Posted by intocarss (Post 407103)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nessumsar (Post 407116)

Geeze Dave, thats going to be a killer engine! I'm all kinds of jealous now...

I'm gunna need to upgrade to keep up with you guys now! Maybe its time to ditch these iron heads on my 388?? haha

Keep us posted!

Thanks Jon. I have been and am still all kinds of jealous of your 315 squared deal.... I want to get there someday. It's on the list. :thumbsup:

Quote:

Originally Posted by intocarss (Post 407123)

I like the sound of that. That is shaping up to be a helluva weekend.

Depends on how lightweight and cost.... Mike has a 3.625 light crank in stock but it's $1500. That's too rich for my blood and overkill for my app. Looking for something cheaper and doesn't have to be feather weight. Might go with a Callies Compstar. Mike likes those for the price.

He likes all the obvious good brands of stuff -- Bryant, Carrillo, Oliver, and Callies -- hates Eagle stuff... he will not install it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregWeld (Post 407162)

They should be fine but I am just thinking is it worth it on this motor to save just a few hundred bucks. I need to call Mike back and discuss it with him.

Thanks for the offer Greg. I need to cut you off before you own 51% share of this motor. :rofl:

No excuses... and no mercy. Kobra Kai Dojo. :thumbsup:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sieg (Post 407167)

Dave - Whats the debate on the rods?

They are CAT rods. My early research shows not a lot of love for them. I need to have Mike weigh them too. Again, I don't need feather weight here, but I don't want a boat anchor like Todd's car and motor either.

To be continued..... :lateral:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron in SoCal (Post 407175)

Those Crowers - assuming undamaged - should hold the power just fine...:thumbsup:

They are I-beams (prefer H-beams) and they are only 5.7 inch. :mad:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flash68 (Post 407177)

They are I-beams (prefer H-beams) and they are only 5.7 inch. :mad:

My Bad. Thought they were the right combo for your stroke...:thumbsup:

Weld - Ur up :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flash68 (Post 407176)

Thanks Jerry. Good to know Mike and Watson are well known in the racing community. I know Todd talks about how professional and well run the Pettis shop is, and I don't doubt it, but I think any of you would get that same feeling walking into this shop and seeing the parts, machines, and motors laying around. Best of the best parts in there. I am the el cheapo guy in there now. Surprised my application was accepted

Depends on how lightweight and cost.... Mike has a 3.625 light crank in stock but it's $1500. That's too rich for my blood and overkill for my app. Looking for something cheaper and doesn't have to be feather weight. Might go with a Callies Compstar. Mike likes those for the price.

He likes all the obvious good brands of stuff -- Bryant, Carrillo, Oliver, and Callies -- hates Eagle stuff... he will not install it.

I know the feeling I am blessd to be able to be around this racing stuff all day long and have a hand in it and on it

Just to clarify... The spare cranks I was posting to Ron about is our 28 -35# Comp eng stuff. Won't work in your app. I did PM you about a crank Bob has for sale. Remember there is nothing wrong with going 'over kill' with the rotating assembly (think longevity). Build the bottom end as light & strong as you can and make the Horse power with the top end ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron in SoCal (Post 407178)

My Bad. Thought they were the right combo for your stroke...:thumbsup:

Leave yours and his personal life out of this Bubba!!:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Quote:

Originally Posted by intocarss (Post 407180)

Dang those are light. I just want a crank 50# or less!

I'll check my PM now.:thumbsup:

Yeah --- The Cat in the Hat left some SCAT....

He's a dumbass -- but we love the unclean.

:rofl:

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregWeld (Post 407193)

Yeah --- The Cat in the Hat left some SCAT....

He's a dumbass -- but we love the unclean.

:rofl:

LOL

Sorry Dave didn't intend to set you up for the multi-dog-pile. :D

Might look into Pankl: http://www.pankl.com/Engine.395.0.html
They own the Carrillo brand. My take on Pankl is American V8's are childs play for their engineering. KTM has a stake in the company and uses their rods and pistons in some very high-stressed high reving single cylinder 4-strokes.

Very awesome Dave. That should be a killer engine for Badmotorfinger!:thumbsup:

Dave, Joo need a dry sump?

There a couple Auto verdi's on ebay.. FYI.

and yes i still havent scanned the dyno sheets yet.

Matt

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vegas69 (Post 407190)

CAT rods? :lol:

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregWeld (Post 407193)

Yeah --- The Cat in the Hat left some SCAT....

He's a dumbass -- but we love the unclean.

:rofl:

I have no idea what you're talking about... :_paranoid

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sieg (Post 407195)

The dog pile is what I have come to expect. :unibrow:

I have seen some of the Pankl stuff -- def looks up the task. Talked to Mike again today and he said it's my call on the rods... so I in the meantime I am looking for some 6 inchers with the 2.0" rod journal (said Honda was a little too small here - would prefer 2.0" for this setup). Will be on the lookout.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tones2SS (Post 407204)

Very awesome Dave. That should be a killer engine for Badmotorfinger!:thumbsup:

Thanks Tony!

Quote:

Originally Posted by badmatt (Post 407225)

Dave, Joo need a dry sump?

There a couple Auto verdi's on ebay.. FYI.

and yes i still havent scanned the dyno sheets yet.

Matt

I have a couple sources for good used dry sump setups. Once I get mine, I will share with you said source. :lol:

Send that dyno sheet! :thumbsup:

SCAT rods.....

Not Cat rods

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregWeld (Post 407289)

SCAT rods.....

Not Cat rods

Shoot, almost had a good ole fashioned (S)CAT fight!

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregWeld (Post 407289)

SCAT rods.....

Not Cat rods

Watson's guys think they might be these. The rod bolts say "C.A.T." on them.

http://www.rpmmachine.com/cat-cr-4340-hbeam.shtml

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vegas69 (Post 407304)

http://www.manleyperformance.com/dl/2012/rods.pdf

Yeah yeah... I know where to find good rods. Thanks Pettis, Jr. :lol:

The "Watson approved rod list" does include Manley. :thumbsup:

Yes --- that's them...

Sorry -- they've been laying around awhile.... so forgot the source!

They're out of my old 427 SBC Dart motor.... but they're probably stretched a few thousandths now... oh -- and out of round on the big end... and rusted up too.

:rofl:

I still have the COLA 4" forged crank they were hung on....

This might be new news for you young guys -- but choosing your rod is critical, unlike choosing which bimbo you're going to notch your belt with (pre engagement days). :unibrow:

WTF.... It's my wallet -- go for the best!

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregWeld (Post 407328)

:hail: Very cool!

I can think of some expensive rods...Crower stuff can get pretty astronomical. They are, per the analogy, the Megan Fox of belt notches.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregWeld (Post 407327)

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregWeld (Post 407328)

Ha, don't be sorry. Mike says they are usable with $150 of machine work and the 2000 rod bolt upgrade (they have the 8740 now). They don't look that bad but like you said, rods are pretty critical.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sik68 (Post 407333)

:hail: Very cool!

I can think of some expensive rods...Crower stuff can get pretty astronomical. They are, per the analogy, the Megan Fox of belt notches.

Crower's high end stuff is damn expensive... but their Sportsman stuff is pretty reasonable.

Megan Fox... not a bad choice there. :lateral:

One regret I have on my engine was building it with Eagle/SCAT rods and crank. Not that they haven't performed, I've had no problems. But I want to support American manufacturing and companies as much as I can (used a DART block and AFR heads at least).

There was the cost of course. I don't know what other people's experiences are,and maybe this was more with the crank then the rods as I already had the rods for this buildup, it seemed like it was going to be a nominal 6 week lead time to get a crank (which means 10 weeks in the real world). Whereas SCAT and Eagle both had the crank in every configuration ready to ship (ie juggling main and rod sizes and balance options).

Some people seem like they spend years buying parts and putting together an engine. I tend to pull a damaged engine and want to get it back in the car asap. My machinist already takes long enough to get it out the door as it is, and he will barely glance at your engine after teardown until all the parts are sitting on the build table. I just couldn't take spending MORE THAN TWICE as much for a crank and then also having to wait who knows how long (BTW this was for a 427 Windsor with small 2.5" mains and chevy rod journals, zero balance).

That was my experience anyway. Next time I replace rods I will go USA and name brand - If I can get them! Maybe I just didn't talk to the right people or try hard enough but seems like they all had a long lead time.

Greg since you are on this thread (well, you are on every thread), do you have an engine builder you like in the NW ? Who do you plan on taking your Mustang engine too ? PM if you want to avoid thread jacking.

Quote:

Originally Posted by preston (Post 407344)

Greg since you are on this thread (well, you are on every thread), do you have an engine builder you like in the NW ? Who do you plan on taking your Mustang engine too ? PM if you want to avoid thread jacking.

I have special jacking privileges grandfathered in.... granted to me by Todd back in the day.

Dale Green Performance - Auburn

And Tony Odo on the Mustang engine since he built it and I got a lifetime of engine rebuilds from Charley when I bought the car. That covers basically bumper to bumper including wreck repair.