I put the .45 in the gun safe and now have the 12 gauge loaded up with 00 buck for home defense. Found a nifty place to conceal it too. :D
http://www.outdoorlife.com/blogs/gun...t-home-defense
http://www.chuckhawks.com/home_defense_shotgun_ammo.htm

The effectiveness of a shotgun is hard to argue.

The layout of our home puts the kids at the end of the main/central 30' hallway so over-penetration is an issue. We have heavy plaster walls which helps but it's not stopping buckshot. I'm guessing the wife would probably frown upon one of them getting wounded by over-penetrating buckshot.

I tested T, 1, 2, 4, 6, 7 & 8 shot some in steel, buffered copper, and 3" and decided on 2-3/4" magnum #6 lead. It's pretty vicious at 5-7 yards and reduces the penetration factor. FWIW - The Remington load I use kicks like a mad mule. If penetration wasn't an issue #1 Buck would be my preference.

.45/.410

Taurus Public Defender POlymer?

I'm sort of partial to my Sub 2000 .40 S&W. Takes Glock magazines.

http://www.survival-spot.com/surviva...kel_su2000.jpg

http://cdn2.armslist.com/sites/armsl...00_9mm_640.jpg

Under penetration is a bigger issue in my opinion. If the bad guy can still operate and kill you, your kids are a gonner whether lead flys through the walls or not. I agree that 00 is to heavy for kids in the house, but 6 shot is for pheasant. With a good shot I may add.

Cop buddies tell me -- average firefight distance -- 21 FEET.....


Ever see the videos of 2 or 3 people in a firefight at close range and NOBODY gets shot.... Lots of lead flying around - close range... leads going somewhere!


My buddy asked me why the .45? I just said - because If I hit an intruder he IS going to be hurt regardless of where I hit him...That would be my intention. Separately - shoot a .45 at someone - THEY WILL BE SCARED... so even if I miss... they may stop what they're doing. Mission accomplished.

John and Meryl have been showing me lots of techniques for accuracy... THAT to me is the most important part of all of this -- be accurate under pressure - under duress.... Know your weapon. Practice practice practice.

I have to say that's where I feel the shotgun really shines for me. I've been hunting with a shotgun since about 10 years old. I feel very comfortable with it in my hands. In fact, my home defense shotgun is my old standby Remington 1100 that I bought with my own money on my 12th birthday. I've cycled 1000's of rounds through it. Startled, out car windows, off balance, you name it.... At 21 feet, done deal...:guns:

Greg it's nice to see that you are learning and starting to think more and more. As I have said in previous posts, this is a mental game. Twenty one feet isn't much and even a fat, middle aged guy like me can cover that distance in the blink of an eye. Think you (or anyone) can deploy their firearm before a bad guy would be on you? How do you get the distance you need to get to your firearm and use it?

Like you, I love my 1911 .45! It seems I can't miss the "X" when using mine at the range. HOWEVER.....As you mentioned a gun fight can take place at very close range and no one get's shot. This brings to mind the old saying that the loudest sound in a gun fight is the "click" when the hammer falls on an empty gun. Capacity VS stopping power is a big part of the equation. (and there is a lot that goes into the dynamics of a gun fight) I carry Wilson Combat Mags, so 8 rounds, with one in the chamber. Nine rounds of Speer Gold Dot is a lot of stopping power. Compare that to my SIG P226 (9mm) with the same type of ammo, but now 15 to 20 rounds (depending on which magazine). Which one would give you a better chance of hitting your target or a better chance at a successful out come? In my mind it's a balancing act and one needs the best bang for the buck so to speak.

I'd like to reinforce what you said about practice, practice, practice and knowing your weapon. Additionally, I highly recommend going through part of the mental game and rehearsing (if only in your mind) different situations that you may be forced to use your firearm. What if and how are the two biggest questions. Doesn't matter if you are using a shotgun, handgun or rifle. Truth is you can never be prepared enough for this type of situation.

The good news for ME -- is that I have access and have and continue to use the training simulator. I can tell you that NONE of you have any friggin' clue how fast someone can "close" 21 feet... and what your reaction time is. And when presented with shoot no shoot scenarios - you'll have even a better idea of just how weak your supposed "skills" are.

I'm not saying this to challenge anyone -- I'm saying this because it's not only true - but it's SHOCKINGLY true!

In the simulators - I've been sliced... shot... tackled... charged by unarmed little drunk women... Dude?!?! Do you shoot a drunk 5'2" 110 pound woman because she's charging you?? Does she have a knife? That last guy that was just breaking into a car did! And he sliced my throat! I shot him but he still sliced me up!

It's these eye opening experiences which have made me decide not to just buy a gun (the easy part) -- but to practice - to talk to professionals to learn - and to also acknowledge just how friggin' dangerous any seemingly harmless situation can go down. I'm taking the In-Sight tactical training course... and have taken a couple other local training courses. Not only are they kinda fun... it's just nice to be able to trust yourself... learn something... and frankly - when I do something - I like to be "decent" at it.

I thought of something else (while driving to Portland today) us "mere mortals" don't think about -- that I've been told now repeatedly by my cop friends... is finding cover. I think most of us have this idea that we're going to wake up in the middle of the night by someone making noises in, or attempting to get in, our houses. So half awake you get up - grab your weapon of choice and go to see what the matter (clatter?) is all about... that is when you're confronted with the element of surprise.

The trained would seek concealment/cover while they investigate the unknown..... while we'd (the untrained) just walk down the hall/stairs... and head for where we thought we heard the noise come from.

The training simulator has all these life size scenarios playing on the screen - AND they can shoot you with pellets! If you're not covered/concealed - prepare to get shot! You took cover but your knee exposed? Prepare to have a bruise there! :bitchslap:

It's that element of surprise - coupled with the total exposure that is going to be your worst nightmare. At least that's what I've been shown.