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-   -   1968 Camaro "Badmotorfinger" v2.2 (https://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php?t=28515)

skatinjay27 04-26-2012 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flash68 (Post 410287)
I'm not sure where you'll be, but come find me... I'll be in the area called the WINNERS CIRCLE. :unibrow:


man dave did you get your spelling lessons from rodger!:lol:
the word you were looking for is spelled WIENERS :lol:

Flash68 04-26-2012 07:11 PM

Dropped off new rods and talked to Mike about heads, intake, and cam plans...

The good news.... heads flowed right at what I was told they flowed.

Lift / Intake / Exhaust
.100 75 53
.200 149 106
.300 226 158
.400 264 212
.500 326 234
.600 358 247
.700 369 255
.800 373 258
.900 366 260
.975 366 262

The bad news... I need new springs, retainers and keepers, but I was kinda factoring that possibility in when I got the top end so damn cheap. He likes PAC springs and the titanium stuff.

Mike will run some more numbers and plug into his Cam Doctor but he's thinking about 266ish intake and low 270's exhaust duration @ .050 and peak net life in the .675 range. He is most concerned with the mid lift area of .200 to .600 and these heads do pretty well there for 20+ year old Nascar crap.

He also specs his cams with the Ford Cleveland firing order (again, Nascar) and apparently it's a 4 cylinder swap deal. First I have heard of that, but he's the boss here.

He said the weak link in my parts is the intake and he'll have to do a little work with it so it isn't such a restrictor it's hurting the combo. He'll put the heads with the intake back on later toward the end he said.

I'm having a lot of fun showing up at the shop and talking and learning from these guys. It's a lot of info to take in and retain for me but I learn some things each time I talk to or meet with him. The uber technical workings are not my strong suit. :D

I may pony up for some valve covers from them. Not sure yet. :thumbsup:

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/f...hoto_005-6.jpg

badmatt 04-26-2012 07:47 PM

Get the springs ISF , cryogenicly treated or REM'd it does make them live longer.

intocarss 04-26-2012 07:53 PM

:thumbsup: :willy: Sounds like you'll be Snappin' Necks, and Cashin' Checks in no time PAH!!!!

Splurge and get the VC's you owe it to yourself and those look nice!!

BTW I have a set of used low runs Ti retainers for double springs, If they'll work for your app you can have them. What size valve stem are you running?

Flash68 04-26-2012 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badmatt (Post 410404)
Get the springs ISF , cryogenicly treated or REM'd it does make them live longer.

Didn't know that was done to springs. The gears in my trans have the REM treatment though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by intocarss (Post 410405)
:thumbsup: :willy: Sounds like you'll be Snappin' Necks, and Cashin' Checks in no time PAH!!!!

Splurge and get the VC's you owe it to yourself and those look nice!!

BTW I have a set of used low runs Ti retainers for double springs, If they'll work for your app you can have them. What size valve stem are you running?

Thanks Jer. Not sure whose checks I'll be cashin tho. :lol:

And thanks for the offer on the retainers. I do not know the specs yet but I'll get some numbers from Mike next time I'm there. You're a good man Charlie Brown. :cheers: :thumbsup:

intocarss 04-26-2012 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flash68 (Post 410416)

And thanks for the offer on the retainers.

BTW I will also have to know the ID and OD of your springs too

Sieg 04-26-2012 08:53 PM

Quote:

I may pony up for some valve covers from them. Not sure yet.
Considering the amount of time you'll be spending in the weiners circle you should probably negotiate a sponsorship agreement with the builder. :unibrow:

Ron in SoCal 04-26-2012 08:53 PM

Really like those flow rates. Beefy in the middle and keep flowing all the way to the top....:cheers:

Get the Ti locks and keepers. It's better on your valve train! Jerr Dog's our resident motor expert and goodwill stand, so PM him if you ever need a little backdoor tech. (easy Jerr, I'm talking about motors here :D )

Track Junky 04-26-2012 09:02 PM

Blah, Blah, Blah...........just hurry up and finish this thing so we can go out and play :unibrow:

intocarss 04-26-2012 09:03 PM

DAMN Seig is talking about weiners and Rons talking about back dooring. Your all a bunch of teases!! I don't know how much of an expert I am but I try to help

It's all about Racers Helping Racers. BTW Ron... did you see that 2000Hp+ twin turbo eng over at QMP the other day HOLY S**T and that was with only 18 # of boost

DAMN NICE STEERING WHEEL DAVE



see no high jacking going on here :_paranoid

Ron in SoCal 04-26-2012 09:11 PM

I did not see it run, but remember the build. Jerr. How about we meet for lunch there tomorrow?

intocarss 04-26-2012 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron in SoCal (Post 410430)
I did not see it run, but remember the build. Jerr. How about we meet for lunch there tomorrow?

QUIT HIGH JACKING THE THREAD!!!

SOUNDS GOOD THOUGH I TAKE LUNCH AROUND 11:30

I LOVE THE NEW SPOILER DAVE!!

Ron in SoCal 04-26-2012 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by intocarss (Post 410431)
QUIT HIGH JACKING THE THREAD!!!

SOUNDS GOOD THOUGH I TAKE LUNCH AROUND 11:30

I LOVE THE NEW SPOILER DAVE!!

Meet you at Bob's or QMP?

QUIT HIGH JACKING DAVE'S THREAD!!!

intocarss 04-26-2012 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron in SoCal (Post 410435)
Meet you at Bob's or QMP?

QUIT HIGH JACKING DAVE'S THREAD!!!

Which ever works is fine by me you decide If we meet at Bob's he may want to go too

As long as you mention something about Dave's car. Then technically it ain't highjacking

Damn cool headers Dave :thumbsup:

Ron in SoCal 04-26-2012 09:45 PM

See you @ Bob's @ 11:30. Oh, and Dave...

:ttiwop:

Track Junky 04-26-2012 09:52 PM

Headers and spoiler? WTF Dave......you holding out!!??

Flash68 04-26-2012 10:11 PM

I'm gonna have more pages than Todd here in a minute at this high jack rate. :lol:

Nothing new, G, just the same ole leaf spring stock subbed car with a little more power soon.

I better get used to this heat cuz I am about to start an engine build thread on YellowBullet. Help me God.... you ready over there Jer? :lateral:

intocarss 04-26-2012 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Track Junky (Post 410444)
Headers and spoiler? WTF Dave......you holding out!!??

OH Tracky see page 1, pics 3 & 4

intocarss 04-26-2012 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flash68 (Post 410448)
I'm gonna have more pages than Todd here in a minute at this high jack rate. :lol:

Nothing new, G, just the same ole leaf spring stock subbed car with a little more power soon.

I better get used to this heat cuz I am about to start an engine build thread on YellowBullet. Help me God.... you ready over there Jer? :lateral:

Get your thick skin on or at least stay out of the TOBTS LOL YB has some really good people willing to help out ;)

And "Project Payback" is 5 laps/pages down!! But he'll be making a pit stop soon SO hammmer down Dave AND LETS GO RACEN BOYZZZZZZZZZ

Vegas69 04-26-2012 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flash68 (Post 410448)

I better get used to this heat cuz I am about to start an engine build thread on YellowBullet. Help me God.... you ready over there Jer? :lateral:

Why in the world would you want to do such a thing. :lol: Most of those guys are 3rd generation inbreds. I do enjoy a few threads over there though.:unibrow: Do they talk about cars?

intocarss 04-26-2012 10:59 PM

YB Threads: 426,692, YB Posts: 8,417,303, YB Members: 60,666

Out of all that I'd say a couple of them talk cars :woot:

Flash68 04-26-2012 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by intocarss (Post 410451)
Get your thick skin on or at least stay out of the TOBTS LOL YB has some really good people willing to help out ;)

And "Project Payback" is 5 laps/pages down!! But he'll be making a pit stop soon SO hammmer down Dave AND LETS GO RACEN BOYZZZZZZZZZ

Oh I know... I've actually started one of 2 threads over there and it wasn't too bad... yet.... def some helpful people. And a few thousand know it alls. Kinda like I am over here on Lat G. :lol:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vegas69 (Post 410454)
Why in the world would you want to do such a thing. :lol: Most of those guys are 3rd generation inbreds. I do enjoy a few threads over there though.:unibrow: Do they talk about cars?

Because it will be fun. And harsh. And possibly insightful. I'm actually most interested in them telling me we're doing it all wrong and we should be using $5000 15 degree heads and such, etc. etc. etc. :thumbsup:

They definitely know their old school motors over there.

Vegas69 04-26-2012 11:20 PM

The self shot girls thread is fun.:D

Flash68 04-26-2012 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vegas69 (Post 410461)
The self shot girls thread is fun.:D

I'm a subscriber. :lol:

intocarss 04-26-2012 11:34 PM

This thread has gone so far South, we might as well

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y3/...e-In-A-Keg.jpg

badmatt 04-27-2012 03:59 PM

I'll drink to that and go peruse the self shot thread as well.

coolwelder62 04-27-2012 04:04 PM

What has yellowbullet have to do W/car's.Sound's like a cheap phonebook.:willy: :willy: :willy:

Flash68 04-27-2012 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badmatt (Post 410573)
I'll drink to that and go peruse the self shot thread as well.

I might've spent some time on that thread today. :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by coolwelder62 (Post 410575)
What has yellowbullet have to do W/car's.Sound's like a cheap phonebook.:willy: :willy: :willy:

:lol: :cheers:

badmatt 04-28-2012 04:58 PM

armature self shot thread ...........

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...e-notbad-1.jpg

intocarss 04-28-2012 06:41 PM

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y3/...untitled-1.png

Chad-1stGen 04-28-2012 09:44 PM

Man I don't look at this post for 24 hours and it grows by 5 pages lol!

intocarss 04-28-2012 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chad-1stGen (Post 410809)
Man I don't look at this post for 24 hours and it grows by 5 pages lol!

We're on a mission!!

FETorino 04-28-2012 11:26 PM

Hmm where were we .........
 
Yea we were talking about an old school 18 deg resurrection build. I'm into it.:D

We can compare dyno numbers in June. :thumbsup:


Quote:

Originally Posted by Flash68 (Post 407049)
You guys are frickin hilarious.... thanks for helping make this thread the polar opposite of the tech-heavy and tuning-heavy thread of Todd's. :D

Dropped off some more parts today and solidified most of the build plan today. The builder/shop is Mike Blackstone @ Watson Racing & Engineering in Concord, CA. An awesome facility to say the least. 26,000 sq ft full of top shelf parts and machines, yet is a small mom and pop type shop with only 3 employees including Ben Watson the owner. Pete is the general machinist. Not sure how they crank out so much killer stuff but they do. 10, 12, 15, and 18 degree heads on the shelf, blocks of all kinds, and they do Pro Stock, Stock Eliminator, circle track, road race motors... not much they don't do.

Mike has already spent a few hours with me schooling me on 18 degree stuff and engine building in general. He's a super nice guy and already treats me like I've already spent $20k with him before.

Mike is a big fan of Keith Dorton (as am I) and is a big proponent of the 394 SBC, so that's what we are going with after telling him what parts I already have and what my intentions are. Here's my parts list, most of which has been acquired over past couple months:

-PBM iron race block, 350 mains, 4.155 bore, .903 bushed lifter bores, splayed caps on all 5 mains, bore cam tunnel to BBC cam size of 50mm
-3.625 stroke crank (looking for one)
-6" rods (have a set - may use, may not)
-Dished piston to achieve no more than 11:1 (Mike will spec and order)
-GM Bowtie 18 degree heads (being checked and flowed by Mike soon to verify 373cfm flow sheet provided by seller :unibrow:) (ebay)
-GM Bowtie 18 degree intake (ebay)
-Jesel shaft rockers 1.6/1.6 ratio (ebay)
-Morel/Roush Yates .903 roller lifters w/ .180 offset intake (ebay)
-Stainless 18 degree 1-3/4" stepped to 1-7/8" headers w/ merge collectors (they're a tad rough, but scored these on Craigslist in Nascar country for $350!)
-Holley 830HP (I bought awhile ago off Yellowbullet but not sure if will be used)
-Solid Roller spec'd by Mike

I am leaning toward dry sump, but Mike suggested and also likes a wet sump with an external oil pump for what I have and on a budget, so I need to look into that.

When it's all said and done we are shooting for near 700 hp at no more than 7000 rpm on 91 octane. Mike says the 18 degree heads are so damn efficient that they don't need the cubes the 23 degree stuff does, but they can be a little more tuning sensitive, another reason it will be dialed in correctly. And they like a lot less timing than a 23 degree I guess - like 32 degrees. I plan on him dyno tuning it in his shop after assembly. You get the dyno room for the whole day whether it takes 3 hours or 8 hrs to get her dialed in. :woot:

I gotta thank our resident good samaritan and butt of many jokes, Greg Weld. He offered to sponsor me for some stuff after I blew up at RTTC and I am greatly appreciative. He supports this niche a lot thru his time and money and spreads it around to help many people. Ok enough about that guy. Thanks G-Dub. I'll put your decal on my car now (see below). :D

Ok here's the pics so far. Hope I did not disappoint.

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/f...8/DSCF4005.jpg

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/f...8/DSCF4011.jpg

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/f...8/DSCF4009.jpg

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/f...8/DSCF4016.jpg

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/f...8/DSCF3997.jpg

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/f...68/catrods.jpg

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/f...hoto_008-2.jpg

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/f...500_AA300_.jpg


Flash68 04-29-2012 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by intocarss (Post 410785)

:lol: I'm pretty sure I just saw that posted on the Bullet recently.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FETorino (Post 410825)
Yea we were talking about an old school 18 deg resurrection build. I'm into it.:D

We can compare dyno numbers in June. :thumbsup:

Thanks dude. I think you probably got me, but I think we'll both be happy with our numbers... and make some nice noise doin it. :thumbsup:

And :cheers: for getting this back on point. :D

After watching Greg's and Charley's Mustangs, as well as a couple stock cars, run today at Thunderhill... I am so itchin to get on track.

A small update on my parts hunt that I am proud of... I scored a "blemish" version Holley billet fuel pump (mechanical) for about $110 off retail. Those kinds of things and even savings make me enjoy the hunt. :lateral:

badmatt 04-29-2012 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flash68 (Post 410835)
:lol: I'm pretty sure I just saw that posted on the Bullet recently.



Thanks dude. I think you probably got me, but I think we'll both be happy with our numbers... and make some nice noise doin it. :thumbsup:

And :cheers: for getting this back on point. :D

After watching Greg's and Charley's Mustangs, as well as a couple stock cars, run today at Thunderhill... I am so itchin to get on track.

A small update on my parts hunt that I am proud of... I scored a "blemish" version Holley billet fuel pump (mechanical) for about $110 off retail. Those kinds of things and even savings make me enjoy the hunt. :lateral:

I have a CV reworked carter if you wanted it.. I shouldve put it out there.

FETorino 04-29-2012 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flash68 (Post 410835)
:lol: I'm pretty sure I just saw that posted on the Bullet recently.



Thanks dude. I think you probably got me, but I think we'll both be happy with our numbers... and make some nice noise doin it. :thumbsup:

And :cheers: for getting this back on point. :D

After watching Greg's and Charley's Mustangs, as well as a couple stock cars, run today at Thunderhill... I am so itchin to get on track.

A small update on my parts hunt that I am proud of... I scored a "blemish" version Holley billet fuel pump (mechanical) for about $110 off retail. Those kinds of things and even savings make me enjoy the hunt. :lateral:

I have 100+ ci on you but you have 20 + years of head development on your side. :D

Funny but our flow #s are pretty similar. You have me on the exhaust side. I knew I should have spent the $$ and filled the exhaust port floors and raised the roofs. That's what I get for going cheap. :lol: I am crutching my exhaust flow with some custom step headers but you have those also. Hmmmm..... good thing I have all those extra CI. :D

I find it hard to believe with the cam specs and ci you have that peak hp will be under 7000. Maybe I need to re read the specs.

Flash68 04-29-2012 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badmatt (Post 410845)
I have a CV reworked carter if you wanted it.. I shouldve put it out there.

I've been looking a CV low pressure pump actually (CV2502). I'll PM you. :thumbsup:

Quote:

Originally Posted by FETorino (Post 410948)
I have 100+ ci on you but you have 20 + years of head development on your side. :D

Funny but our flow #s are pretty similar. You have me on the exhaust side. I knew I should have spent the $$ and filled the exhaust port floors and raised the roofs. That's what I get for going cheap. :lol: I am crutching my exhaust flow with some custom step headers but you have those also. Hmmmm..... good thing I have all those extra CI. :D

I find it hard to believe with the cam specs and ci you have that peak hp will be under 7000. Maybe I need to re read the specs.

Funny. My heads are like the weakest of all the heads sitting in the engine shop I'm at. :D It's like the saying goes -- try to buy the ****tiest house on the nicest block or nicest neighborhood. The rising tide lifts all boats. :lol:

I've learned flow #'s are only a small part of heads, as you know I'm sure. Velocity is just as important or more. Still, for the money my top end cost I am stoked to see the results. I'll put them up against anyone on a dollar per $ basis. I guess I should wait til the dyno in case we don't break 500. :lol:

Your cubes are gonna make incredible torque... and incredibly hard to manage. :D

Yeah we are shooting for peak power at 7000rpm. If it comes in at 7200 I guess that's okay. It'll be built right so I'm good with that. Rods are rates to 7500 rpm and 700hp I believe I read.

I'm more looking for that sweet flat torque curve from 4000 up that Mike says he loves about the 394 combo.

FETorino 04-29-2012 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flash68 (Post 411040)
:

Your cubes are gonna make incredible torque... and incredibly hard to manage. :D

I'm more looking for that sweet flat torque curve from 4000 up that Mike says he loves about the 394 combo.

It's all about matching all the pieces of the build. I'm banking on more of a torque shelf. High and flat. :D

What fun would it be to drive if the power was easy to manage.

Flash68 04-29-2012 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FETorino (Post 411063)
It's all about matching all the pieces of the build. I'm banking on more of a torque shelf. High and flat. :D

What fun would it be to drive if the power was easy to manage.

Absolutely. It is fun (and new) for me to be part of the design process of a motor from A to Z.

High and flat. And a bear to manage. I like it. A LOT. :lol:

intocarss 04-29-2012 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flash68 (Post 411099)
Absolutely. It is fun (and new) for me to be part of the design process of a motor from A to Z.

High and flat. And a bear to manage. I like it. A LOT. :lol:

I'm glad you're enjoying it!!! It's a blast for rookies LOL Just wait until you get to stand next to your eng on the dyno. I get to hear & feel it monthly or sometimes weekly

Here's a taste for ya...

Our dyno, first pulls on my new 540 back in 2005
I was nervous cuz the warranty expires as soon as it fires And I assembled the whole damn thing LOLOL


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