If you drive like I do - you can stretch that out to about 20

Happy shopping: http://www.longacreracing.com/default.aspx

Ron should also be able to hook you up this equipment. :thumbsup:

Even better is that he has a gauge to set it to make certain it's accurate!

Yeah, not happy about dropping another $400 bucks but oh well. Leaving work early(in about 10 minutes), heading to Sonoma(bout a 15 minute drive), picking up the Longacre pyrometer than heading home. :headspin:

Hey GW........I pulled a mini-Charlie!!!

Cheap ass --- just slap the plastic down and let 'er buck!










High Fiving ya right now Dude! Good job on the "hey! You know what you need......"

Think of it as cheap insurance against mucking up those tires too quickly.

Yeah -- and the Durometer might keep you from mucking up the CAR when you run them past their sweet spot and slide off the track into the nearest immovable object!

A6's?

If he doesn't wear them out before they age out he's doing it wrong.

I'm trying out A6's ---- Gaetano is running R6's.... He doesn't run all that often -- in fact -- I think it's been two years since he last paraded around the track... :>)

9 months and 7 days, not that im counting

for future reference
 

done -create mounting and install Woodward collapsible steering shaft
done -install QD steering wheel
done -install and plumb fuel cell
done -install ATL fuel sender unit
done -redo rear fuel supply with line bulk head
done -modify rear sway bar mounting
done -fabricate an easy to see and user friendly instrument panel
done -rewire underdash
done -replace rear shocks
done -lose 50lbs--- 82lbs lost
later -quad brake lights
done -double adjust cockpit shocks with new upper mounts added
later -install tracmate

A6's will last you about 4 laps then they get slick. Most of the serious NASA Time Trial guys would use them to get quicker times and spend less time on the track beating up there cars.
You shouldn't worry though. At your pace you probably wont even reach optimum temps. :lol: :stirthepot:

Ron told me to keep the tires happy.... so that's my new mission in life -- Happy tires!!


HAHAHAHAHA



I've had this tire discussion with 9 million guys... they all have something to say... and I'll 100% guarantee that not one of them has ever checked their tire temperatures - or used a durometer... or have the right air pressure -- it's all hearsay and someone told someone one time about this guy they know. Ron, however, is using all his magic tools to guide me and the car... so I'll go with what HE KNOWS... not what someone else. I'll give the A6's a shot - if they come up to temp too quickly - he'll know it - and we'll do something different.

BTW -- if you think the A6's are soft - you should feel what the Yoko A005's feel like for the Lotus! Chewing gum on a hot sidewalk.... You'd think these wouldn't last 2 laps -- but my buddy that actually IS the Lotus Cup Unlimited Champion says that's what I should be running.... Since he's the US Champion in the same car -- I'll go with it. At $1800 a set... they gotta last more than 2 sessions!

You gotta remember Gaetano doesn't hang around a bunch of Pro Posers... he's been at the track talking to NASA guys... running TT and other classes. They are doers.

Read the NASA forums (these guys run on the track more than post on the internet about wanting to run on a track). Many indeed have been switching to A6 in recent years over the R6.

Wait, did I just give Gaetano a compliment? :twak:

Can't we talk about 200 TW tires again? :underchair:

Here's your new official track day wake up music:



I know.............you can thank me later.

haaa you should have posted the 24 hour video. bet it would have been quiet for about 22 hours. :D

The A6's will come in within half a lap. That's what makes them nice. There also about a second faster than the R6's and typically the 3rd or 4th lap would be there fastest lap. After that they just came in because the tires would get slick and there times wouldn't get any better.
But hey, I'm willing to let you prove me wrong on your dime. :lol:

I'm not saying Big G doesn't know what he's talking about -- or even the guys he may be hanging with...

BUT --- ALWAYS THE BIG BUTT....

Peoples cars are different - different weights - different everything.... this isn't spec racing. So what works for one guy and doesn't work for someone else is really just pure useless information as far as I'm concerned. IT's got to be done on a case by case basis...

What tracks people are running - how hard they're running - and all of that - there's just so many variables. So an A6 on one car is different than on another car depending on so many things. What's the ambient temp? etc.

As usual -- I'm always trying to post knowing that many other people may be reading this stuff... so I'm also throwing things in as food for thought. Some read and never post...

I think you're missing the point.


RON took my tire temps after a full 9 laps -- multiple sessions over a two day period -- he writes them all down every time -- and THOSE ACTUAL TIRE TEMPS lead us to think that the A6 will be a better choice.

It's just real simple. The temps are the tell. Doesn't make ANY difference to me what worked or didn't on someone else's car or run. We're going by what MY car and tires told us. I have to go with a guy that has 468 wins and ran pro car teams... I'm pretty confident he's not just trying to sell tires (since he doesn't sell tires).

yet.....:ups:

The rich bastard has a pro crew chief, what's next, Ron Fellow's in the passenger seat at all the events?:D

I agree Greg, I'll add driving skill and at what level you are pushing the car. Since you are older and more experienced, I see you as a more patient racer that doesn't abuse the tires. I would think you could get by with an A6 more easily than a 10/10ths guy or one with poor chassis balance. For me, it would be what gives me the best consistency over five, twenty minute sessions.

I'm learning patience Todd...

Your statement about the difference of 10/10ths vs the way I'm running is a major factor. I want more, or as much, grip as I can get - without driving at 10/10ths.

The brake rotor temps are another "tell"... he shoots the temps when I come in so we have a basis to tell us where the brakes are - not only the bias front to rear - but the temp overall. I'm not using a lot of brake - because I'm not pushing the car that hard in to the corner - so the temps are rather "cool" relative to what the pad that was on the car wants to see. That pad wants higher temps to work. Well - I don't drive to that pads characteristics --- so we'll put in a pad that operates where I'm at.

Basically - I think I drive more like a Miata... or maybe a Buick.... IDK LOL

The tweaking was the part I enjoyed about my car more than anything except for the using. It's really incremental.

You make a very good point. Getting your car dialed in to where it suits your ability will result in a car that you can drive at 8 or 9/10's and run faster than you used to at full tilt. Being comfortable is a big factor. I'll be interested to see just how much faster you can get with a properly set up car and the same skills behind the wheel.

I just got a reminder that you're never too old.... My little buddy Pierre (77) just called and came over and loaded up my air driven hydraulic transmission jack.. He's working on his '57 Chevy project which is ready to go to upholstery next week.

What Ron was/is helping with is exactly as you describe.... getting the car "right" -- so it's easier and more fun to drive... which resulted - with the same loose nut behind the wheel - in dropping 12 seconds per lap. Same everything else except tire pressures got right - which made the car feel and grip better - raising confidence and consistency in the corners... and getting the brake more balanced (using his ears - and temps - and questioning me).

The CAR is capable of running 2.04's.... The DRIVER might be - but doesn't care. I just want to run 2.10's like Charley does all day long.

What I found -- and the more I watch the one and only video I took during the weekend is -- I can catch the guys at any time... even if I let 'em go I can reel 'em back in within a couple turns.... but what I was noticing is that the brakes just weren't working well... I'd have to pump 'em to get the pedal back... or I'd experience rear wheel hop if I jumped on 'em etc. SO that's what we're working on now for Sonoma.

After that - we'll work on installing a full floater - Race rotors (rears are but the fronts are performance street)... and, for safety - the larger race size bearings. And of course some shocks or shock adjustments. Most likely this will be a replacement upgrade item. Then I'm done. It's just get these few things dialed in and then just keep getting some seat time.

I was talking to DBasher the other day when he came over -- and I said that I'd like to do more track days... BUT -- big BUTT -- I wasn't really comfortable going out on my own without all my "support group" like Charley and Mike and Chet etc around to lean on. Once the car is right - and I know what is what... Then I can become more independent and start running at different tracks etc. So that's the goal.

I didn't TWEAK because I don't - or didn't / still learning - what to tweak and when - and what difference that makes etc. THUS RON SUTTON school of tweaks.

I know we've jacked Gaetano's thread.... but as long as he doesn't care (hasn't texted me that I'm a butthead YET!) I'll post one more.... Besides that - he's out at Thunderhill running Time Trials today... So doesn't even know yet!! LOL


Part of MY GOAL is to help others learn from what I'm doing. Yes - what Todd said is true... I now have a professional in my crew... OKAY -- So what! Yeah I can afford to do that.

Here's what OTHERS can learn from this... which is mostly why I'm pursuing the discussion in the way that I am. HAVING THAT EXPERT ADVICE is so friggin' beneficial for so many GREAT REASONS.... like NOT WRECKING... HAVING MORE FUN.... KEEPING UP WITH THE PACK -- WHILE NOT DRIVING HARD...

This is why I've said many times -- that this is the BEST MONEY I'VE EVER SPENT ON A CAR. I had most all the parts.... what was missing was all the parts working well together. That takes (as I've now learned) a lot of info!

What RON SUTTON has brought to the track is the expertise to be able to read - and discuss - and diagnose QUICKLY what is going on... and how to fix it. In one stinking weekend HE knocked off 12 SECONDS per lap!

How much money do you guys want to piss away buying this or trying that or upgrading this or that -- only to find out you didn't gain much. AND YOU'RE DRIVING YOUR ASS OFF OVER YOUR HEAD...

Some measurements - a little discussing - some THOUGHT PROCESS to the driver before going out... so I could actually think about what Ron had asked of me... and BINGO! Car is more fun - faster - easier... less abusive to parts. WTF is not to like about that scenario?

Is it "expensive"?? Yeah - I guess - relatively.... But where I'm going with this is -- the sport is "expensive" doing nothing! Tires - brakes - wheels - motors - transmissions... shocks... ALL THAT STUFF is expensive... YET we don't think twice about it because it's all the cool stuff! AND WE WANT IT.

So where I went was --- bring in a PRO that's going to make my time and expense WORTH IT. Worth it - is MORE FUN - EASIER - Less abuse... OVER A VERY LONG TIME... so I "budgeted" this year to bring Ron in -- get squared away quickly and efficiently and be able to then move on. What I'm learning will transfer to any car - any track - any time - hot day - cold day - light car - heavy car... big motor or 1.8 liter Toyota.

I look at it as how much more fun and dialed in my car will be -- so I can go to the track and concentrate on my line and enjoyment

This is some of the best advice that's ever been written on this forum. What's the old saying, "Make the best of what you've got".

It's all in the details. Plus, it will be more fun to out run guys with MORE car. Like Dave and Gaetano. :D

Considering the amount of time energy and money spent vs the actual number of "hot" laps you get in two days, being properly prepared can significantly increase your percentage of hot laps. Having the right tire for your car and driving style may deliver the largest increase of all.

Being a newb at T-Hill to auto events and only having motorcycle events to compare against, what I observed was:

• Cars require significantly more equipment, size of trailers, tools and accessories, spare parts, etc.
  
• Fuel and tire expenses are at least 5x's
  
• Higher maintenance due to wearing out parts such as brake pads, bearings, and oil change volume.
  
• Percentage of good laps is significantly less due to traffic and passing restrictions.
  
• The actual number of laps on track in a session is less due to staging time. Bikes pack up tight and get out fast. When you only have 20 minutes per session every one counts. For comparison bike events usually get 7 sessions per day at T-Hill.

Anything you can do to increase your hot laps adds to the enjoyment factor per dollar.

FWIW - I estimate the two meatball flags reduced my total laps by 15%.

A properly prepared car with happy tires equal a happy driver come Sunday afternoon!

The plan is to have the car be capable of 2.05's -- and run 2.09's.... on cruise mode... Then pass those two fat tired big motor'd pigs like they're chained to the K wall.

They'll spend all afternoon under a hot car dialing two clicks here and letting out half piss of air... while I sit in my chair drinking tonics.


HA!!

I just hope you get the chance....:D

I know he don't give a crap about that but next time post a vid of something to distract him.

He is having fun....4 sessions and no breakage. YEAH FOR ME!!!

Hasn't got the time from session 4 but so far he's @ 2:06 on crappy brakes. Something we will address before Sonoma.

Taa Dah! Go Vince! :thumbsup:

All this hoopla and we neglected to address the brakes? :sieg:

:bitchslap:

Whats up fellas. Great time today. Car handled flawlessly. The shocks Ron Sutton hooked me up with are the bomb!! They were set and forget. The 295's up front never rubbed but one of the rear 315's very slightly rubbing quarter panel. Not even enough to cause any tire damage or have any effect on air pressures.
This was my first time on Hoosiers and this is what I learned.......Do not go by Hoosiers recommended air pressure settings. Also, the veteran Hoosier users told me not to be concerned with heat cycling them.
First session out I went with Hoosiers recommended air pressure setting and the car was way free. Checked tire temps, dropped pressures a bit, and went out the second session. Not much difference so before I went out 3rd session I talked to Karl Chicca and Kevin Smith among a few others that consistently run Hoosiers . Karl even brought his log book for his '69 Camaro so that I could see the numbers for myself. The consensus was 30 lbs hot with everyone I talked to running the same size tire. Keep in mind these pressures may be different for smaller sized tires. Everyone I talked to ran from 275's to 315's.
I was only able to manage 2:06's today all due to not having enough front brake. Had to start braking way before my typical braking zone but I ran all four sessions anyways just to work on my line.
Also, props to Vince for the great work. Next on the list....pads and rotors. Need to do homework on the rotors but Karl advised that I use the Hawk DTC70's.

Those are what I'm TAKING OFF.....



HAHAHAHAHAHA -- but I've watch Karl's video's and he drives "just a bit" differently Than I do.

So what is it you don't like about them Greg?

Sounds like a decent "maiden" voyage. :thumbsup:

They didn't work worth a damn.... and they could only be a part of the problem -- but that pad's working temp is far higher than where I was driving..

The DTC70 has a heat range of 800 to 1200 degrees -- That was higher than where my brakes were coming in at. Which means the 70's weren't working that well. So Ron has a different pad coming -- The Wilwood A's for front and B's for rear.