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Interesting, Lance. Will you now have to box your frame and add more support for the third link or will this bolt in under the floor? The upper bracket template looks a lot shorter than most "racecar" 3-links.
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3 link parts are in, install has begun. I'm so stoked about this, for sure the biggest upgrade I've made to the car since probably the Big Brake kit 4.5 years ago. I guess the big front sway bar was a big upgrade also, but this install will take care of a need this car has wanted for over 10 years. So happy to finally be making it happen.
First pics of the parts... https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Mont..._081528-X2.jpg Upper link frame and axle mounts https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Mont..._081536-X2.jpg Where the upper link bolts to the frame crossmember. https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Mont..._074812-X2.jpg There is an included backing plate with locknuts welded to it that slides up between frame and body that the link bracket through bolts too. https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Mont..._120217-X2.jpg Axle side gets welded to the housing. https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Mont..._115635-X2.jpg Frame side Pan Hard Bar mount bolts to frame in several locations with load spread all over the frame on both sides. Uses some existing holes to line up and some new holes had to be drilled. Here it is almost in it's spot during mock up. https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Mont..._124650-X2.jpg https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Mont..._124723-X2.jpg https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Mont..._124742-X2.jpg https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Mont..._125117-X2.jpg Today's tasks involve drilling the holes and getting the frame side upper link bracket installed, then cleaning up and painting all the frame areas before attaching the PHB bracket for the last time. Then the plan is to take it to a friends place to weld the bracket to the housing and fab up some extra support for the axle side PHB mount then install it. I've got a local race on January 16th and really want to finish this up and get some street time on it tuning before then. It'll be tight, wish me luck. |
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Bernie Duplan that designed this setup has been running it on his MCSS for a year, including several autocross events and has had no issues. The short answer is "we'll see" but I do not anticipate the need for any further reinforcement. The car needed to get the axle side upper link mount lower to correct the horrible Instant Center and Rear Roll Center height. IC was 35" in front of axle centerline with 100% Anti Squat as it was, looking to get AS in the 70-75% range and RCH somewhere below axle centerline to start out. |
That link looks to be about a similar length vs. the GNX piece.
I'm liking the way everything looks! Let Bernie know there's interest. |
Looks good Lance.
I really like the fine adjustment on the panhard bar instead of just several holes. We ran a similar adjustment setup on our stock car some years ago. It sure makes it easier to creep up on your adjustments. |
Looks great Lance! Have you measured the pinion angle change with travel with the short third link? Where are you racing in January?
Pappy |
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We are at AMP on the skid pad January 16 with SCCA. |
More progress made today. All fab work finished up, all parts freshly painted and shop cleaned up. Tomorrow final install, then road test!!! The turn downs on the mufflers really quieted it down a lot, I think it'll pass sound like this.
https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Mont..._162412-X2.jpg https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Mont..._103047-X4.jpg |
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Looking at it today after getting the axle mount in place, the new link will actually be longer than the OEM links are now, front to back wise, by a couple inches at least. Axle upper link mount is about 2" behind and 2" lower than old axle side link mounts.
I'll get exact measurements tomorrow as I'll need to plot pivot points for initial setup. |
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As always with this car, packaging is TIGHT. It's all in there though, and it all fits. Bernie did an EXCELLENT job designing this setup. I'm impressed.
https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Mont..._195205-X2.jpg https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Mont..._195233-X2.jpg https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Mont..._195129-X2.jpg https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Mont..._195057-X2.jpg I hope I don't have to do much work on upper link at track as it's a bit hard to get too, but I shouldn't have too once I find it's happy spot. https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Mont..._192558-X2.jpg https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Mont..._192510-X2.jpg https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Mont..._192401-X2.jpg Tomorrow morning I need to swap out the rear springs, then it's off for it's first test drive. Wish me luck... |
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Looks awesome. Can’t wait for the review. I thought about this while mine was torn apart but I have to stop the steady outflow of cash. Starting to not be fun anymore.
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So I did a bunch of flexing while the springs were out this morning. First I have to say, a 4 post drive on lift makes stuff like this SO much easier than a 2 post.
https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Mont..._091820-X2.jpg So, springs out, driver side full stuff to bumpstop, pass side full droop. Here is tire with roll center at lowest point, 6.75" https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Mont..._091837-X2.jpg And here is that same except roll center is at the highest point 11.25" https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Mont..._093612-X2.jpg You can clearly see the difference in how the axle\tire rotate in roll by how the tire ends up in the fender. Pretty cool... In static form, neither tire ever touches the frame or inner fender. They both come pretty close to the outer fender lip at full stuff though. https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Mont..._093625-X2.jpg In dynamic form, I was able to get the passenger side to rub just a bit, on the outer fender lip I believe. I set the RCH at 9" for my initial test drive, right in the middle of adjustment range. https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Mont..._101055-X2.jpg https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Mont..._101108-X2.jpg Upper link frame mount in middle hole, sway bar in middle holes, rebound in shocks in middle of adjustment range, RCH in middle of adjustment range...time for a test drive. Right away I could feel a huge difference in how the rear end reacted. In hard transitions back and forth at 45 mph the back felt stuck like I've NEVER felt it before. I had a HUGE grin on my face right away. When being a bit more aggressive swerving back and forth I was able to get it to slide the inside front tire just a bit when on the gas...hinting that it's a touch on the tight side like this. Certainly drivable though. I'd race it like this...if I had too. I did have a wheel hop problem though. It hops hard, from a dead stop, from a roll, even during a hard 1-2 shift. This is discerning and I need to adjust to correct this. First thing will be raising the front upper link up to the top hole. I also want the rear to roll just a bit less so I think I'll put the rear sway bar on stiffest hole and might put 185# springs in place of the 162# springs in it now. The stiffer springs and more rebound in the shocks may help tame the rear axle down as well. Hopefully not too many changes at once and it'll be enough to let me feel like I can beat on it a bit harder next time out. I'm also not sure if it's just the extra noise, or if the tailpipe delete option really opened up the exhaust, but it sure feels peppier when on the loud pedal!! Could just be the car forcing itself forward faster instead of just spinning the tires too. |
Nice upgrade! Interested to hear how it goes once you get to race it for the first time.
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So, I've driven the car around the streets a few times and have made some adjustments from my initial settings.
First off, the way the rear suspension reacts to inputs now is COMPLETELY different than before and in a great way. I'm so excited about it's possibilities now. I have not been able to get the rear to step out in the somewhat aggressive street driving I have attempted so far, not once. Nor have I been able to get the rear to get the front tires to push...so far, it's pretty dang neutral. I have had some interference issues I'm working through and a wheel hop issue. I had the inner fender sheet metal on the passenger side rubbing the inside of the RR tire under hard left turns...the sheet metal was sticking out past the frame rail and a few selectively placed blows with a 5# sledge and some fresh black paint seem to have cured that. First time out, it would wheel hop just about any time I got on the gas hard. I raised the upper link frame side mount to the top hole, went from 162# to 185# rear springs, put rear sway bar on full stiff (was in middle), added 7 clicks of rear rebound to shocks and raised PHB from 9" to 10" and drove again. Wheel hop is MUCH better, now it'll only hop if I try to make it hop...by being real aggressive on the throttle. My other interference issue is the Pinion\U-joint contacting the body under full compression. Some of this happened during the wheel hop issues, but it'll also bottom out by just hitting a hard bump at cruising speed. I'm running a 3.5" diameter driveshaft (full inch larger than stock) and a 9" which is much larger than the OEM 10 bolt. It was better after putting the bit stiffer springs in, so I think I'll bump up to the 200# springs I have sitting here and maybe I'll shorten the upper link just a bit as well to try to gain a bit more room. Technically I haven't even measured the pinion angle yet, I initially set the upper link length by putting it exactly where the housing sat with the old links still in place. Moving the frame side upper link to top hole probably added a bit of static pinion rise, so this needs to be addressed. I think I'll leave the spring adjusters where they are when I put the 200# springs in as well which will raise the rear ride height another 1/4" or so I believe. I think the wheel rate is pretty close to what I'll need, I LOVE the way the rear squats under hard acceleration and you can tell it throws the car forward vs blowing the tires off like it used to do. Lateral load feels decent as well...I haven't tried a hard braking turn yet to see what turn in is like. but from what I can tell corner exit is going to be MILES better than it has ever been before. I need to get the interference issues worked out regardless though before I can really start to throw it around. I'm pretty stoked about how it is going so far though...can't wait to race it this Sunday. Also, I'm pretty sure the engine woke up a bit when I cut the tailpipes off. I'm getting pretty used to the tone and I'm pretty sure it will pass sound at the track...but I'll still try to rework the whole exhaust at some point to get it out from under the back seat. Latest thoughts are a Y pipe into a single 4" muffler\tailpipe on passenger side up and over the axle dumping behind the RR tire. |
So, apparently I'm an idiot... I set my upper link length by the position the axle was in with the old 2 upper links still attached in what I thought was the preferred pinion angle, and then I never measured it to verify it was correct until today.
I had the pinion angle about 3 degrees higher than it should have been. Taking a 1/4" out of the upper link put the pinion angle just under parallel with the trans output and BOOM, just like that my wheel hop and U-Joint interference problems went away. Car is butter smooth at 80-100 MPH and can be driven in full anger with no strange and scary noises. Let's go racing boys!!! |
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Really glad to hear it's performing well for you, Lance! Good luck at the next race.
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Eventually I'll remeasure it all to see where IC and AS ended up to see of it needs further fine tuning. |
Who else is as excited as I am to see what this thing can do tomorrow? :D
Course has a ton of transitions in it along with a couple sweepers, exactly the test bed to see how much the 3 link improved the car's rear grip. https://forum.azsolo.com/index.php?/...nt-1-jan-16th/ Car is washed, full of fuel, have a new case for the GoPro and the weather forecast shows high 60s-low 70s and partly clouds tomorrow. Let's do this!! |
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Good luck Lance. |
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I'd be more excited if you invested the money in a mullet vs. a 3 link, but hey, good luck out there tomorrow. :D
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Lol at you all. :D
Yes, I'm pretty stoked. This was a LONG time coming and the initial reactions show a LOT of promise... |
Looking forward to the update. I'm hoping it's a positive day for you!
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So the day didn't go exactly as planned... :D
First two runs were great, completely different car yet still very responsive and easy to drive. I was about a second or so ahead of Mike in his Chevelle on both runs, then sitting in line to start 3rd run in neutral I pushed the clutch in to shift to 1st and the pedal went to the floor. Pretty sure I have a clutch fork issue but Barney was out. Mike graciously let me slip into his seat for my last 3 runs. It was awesome for him to do that and to feel my setup on course then to go directly to his setup (which is very similar to mine) and feel the difference. Final verdict from today, 3 link is the answer! :D This video is my second run, only adjustment from first run was 3 clicks softer on rear rebound. I took a passenger and felt a slight RR tire rub on one long sweeper so I added some tape to verify where, added some compression to rear shocks and had tools out to raise PHB after 3rd run...but it wasn't to be. Here are the final results for the day. http://solo-timing-api.herokuapp.com...ass-Open_CAM-T It'll be a day or two before I can diagnose the clutch, but pretty sure the trans has to come out first too see what's up...so yeah... |
Well.... I guess that's a 'good news/bad news' thing.
Glad it initially went well but sux to hear about a clutch issue ending further evaluation. |
Bummer about the clutch. That's great that it's performing better with the rear changes though. Good luck, Lance.
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Suspicion confirmed...
https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Mont..._133904-X2.jpg https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Mont..._133712-X2.jpg Now just have to find time to schedule the uninstall\correct\reinstall procedure... |
Good news is you now know what it is. The Bad news is now you have to find the time to actually fix it.
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Pardon my ignorance w/the t56's & the TO bearing pieces..... What is the red shrapnel I'm seeing?
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I think the hardest part might end up being the retrieval of the two broken bolt pieces. Might try to re-engineer the setup a bit while it's out also. |
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Well, this should be fun to get out...
https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Mont..._134903-X2.jpg https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Mont..._134831-X2.jpg Had a very liberal coat of loc-tite on it when it went in the last time about 7 years ago... |
Eak - that does not look like fun
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The nuts we tried to weld to the stud were so small they melted down before the weld would burn into the stud
Turns out, several drill bits and an easy out with assist from blue wrench was the answer. https://photos.smugmug.com/1985-Mont..._122404-X2.jpg New bolt procured and ready to put all back together now. |
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