Lateral-g Forums - DSE vs TCI vs Art Morrison

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- - DSE vs TCI vs Art Morrison (https://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php?t=25745)

Nothing but good advice in this thread... someone should sticky this one.

Im hearing ya Frank... Some great points you make!!
To the OP you cant go wrong either way..

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProdigyCustoms (Post 275090)

Don't know. That senario would be so hard to prove it will never be known.

What I do know is on autocross, Kyle Tucker is probably the most experianced and best driver of the top 5 at RTTHs and while Jason is a good driver, he would be the first to tell you he has WAY less autocross experiance then Kyle who races almost every weekend in the same car, and Jason's car was right there time wise with stock subframe and leaf springs. And Jason had never autocross the car either, it was first time out for the car. Bret from Air Ride is probably as good or a VERY close second in total lap times as Kyle and lead most of the day with a stock subframe and Air Ride, and at the end of the day was witin a 10th.

So yes, on the autocross I believe a modded stock sub can do very well.

As for high speed stabily at Optima or the likes, no one really knows. It only makes sense at higher speeds the "geometry numbers" of the high end after market frames HAVE to come into play. But then on the big track horsepower has proved to be king so far. And driver plays into the equation even more.

Again, I hate up selling and selling stuff to people they do not need or cannot really afford. The Pro Touring movement with all these badd ass builds going on has a tendancy causing us to feel pressured to NEED all the trickest stuff to have a cool car, and it simply is not the case.

But hey, if you got the dough, by all means give me a call and buy a subframe, I would love to sell one, but if you have not got the money for it, you don't need it.

Well said frank. you gotta ask yourself " what are your goals" and go from there. we all like the big dollar parts but in the end if your only building a crusier and occasional auto crosser then stick with stock.

Now if I was building another 69 for myself would I do stock ...? No , DSE's frame is so damn nice !!!hehe .

Quote:

Originally Posted by Datsbad (Post 275130)

I was on your site Yesterday, Love the builds your got going on :thumbsup:

Mary Pozzi throws down pretty well (real frickin well) w/moded stock frame.The George Follier's restored trans am mustang threw down pretty well at optima in nov.I be willing to bet that if Mark Donahue was still here he would make a lot of folks rethink the after market sub frames.Do what you feel comfortable with.A finished car is more fun than a car on jack stands.Good luck.:thumbsup:

Quote:

Originally Posted by coolwelder62 (Post 275158)

amen. im really sick of seeing it in pieces and it will be sitting even longer if i continue with my delusions of grandeur. i need to learn to drive appropriately first before i go blowing all sorts of money on hitech suspension pieces that i really cant even afford anyway but think i need.:thumbsup:

Besides what I said earlier, it occured to me one of the pluses going with an aftermarket subframe, and that's that all of the components were chosen to work together. While you can buy for example a hotchkis kit for the stock subframe that will probably be fine, but to get the best stock subframe possible, you tend to have to do a lot of reading and comparing to pick out parts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Pozzi (Post 275053)

TCI has been building street rod stuff for a long time and their market niche is low buck bread and butter builds. Their sub reflects this in using a Mustang II type spindle they make themselves instead of using an Aluminum Corvette assembly. There is a small weight penalty for using more steel parts but it may only be a few lbs. I drove their Camaro at the test and it was easy and pleasant to drive at an autocross. Their choice of springs was on the stiff side and I suggested they soften the spring rates to help that. The TCI car was just built prior to the Super Chevy test, and as far as tuning goes, they were quite fortunate to do so well in their first test, and should have a better ride compromise as far as springs, bars, and shocks after running the car more, - which they plan on doing.

David

Thanks for the clarification about the spring rates on the TCI Camaro Dave.

The springs rates that were used that day were 50 lbs heavier front and 100 lbs heavier rear than what is in the car now. The reason being is our car was completely untested 24 hours before the event so we had a bit of guess work for spring rates on our hands. We had plans to install the TigerCage and interior before the event so we sprung it a little heavy in preparation. Unfortunately, time did not allow these items to be installed or the springs to be changed before the event. Needless to say the springs that are in the car today are exactly what the customer will receive when they purchase a kit and it rides & handles much better now.

My thinking is if it ran that good untuned just wait til it is dialed in.

See you guys/gals in Vegas this weeked!

:cheers:

-J

Great thread!!
lots of options no question about it, and i think Frank Or Vegas asked the most important ? "What are you using the car for?" that is the first ? that needs to be answered.
then you can formulate a plan that makes sence from there.

All excellent advice and I concur - decide what the goals and budget are and start there. You've started by asking the right questions for sure and I have been through the same process as have others. And I cannot help but watch Mary blast that 2nd gen of hers around the track with a stock sub and Hotchkis kit! Impressive and as someone here suggested, a lot of it is the driver. Not to hijack this great thread but in the spirit of helping another member....I see you are just north of me (I'm in San Diego) so IF you decide to go with modified stock, I have some unused first gen suspension that I'm probably not going to use. PM me if interested.

I have a really clean, welded and fresh powdercoated stock sub, some Del-a-lum bushed, powdercoated UCA & LCA's with QA1 coilovers, Hotchkis front bar and a set of Landrum rear springs and bushings. I also have a complete, brand new, soup-to-nuts Hotchkis TVR setup for a first gen including the UCA's, LCA's, 4 lowered springs, 2 sway bars and their Bilstein shocks for front and rear plus all the bushings, brackets and hardware. I think there's even a late model, rebuilt steering box here somewhere. These were going on other projects that I'm not going to get to anytime soon so I'm sure we could work something out if you decide to go that route. I don't think Frank will mind because I buy all my stuff from him anyway!

But again, check on your goals and make a plan. It will change anyway but start with a plan LOL!

G.