Lateral-g Forums - Which aftermarket Subframe

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- - Which aftermarket Subframe (https://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php?t=46731)

I spent a lot of time researching parts when I built my 68 and ultimately decided on the DSE subframe. I have around 6000 street miles on it and I would buy the DSE again in a heartbeat. Like you one of my requirements was a front steer power rack. I also liked the hydro-formed frame rails.

http://hayes-ent.com/steve/images/Camaro/Camaro1.jpg

http://hayes-ent.com/steve/images/Camaro/CAMARO3.jpg

Awesome car dude. Performance, safety, structural inegrity and ride quality are where DSE shines.

After recent developments I can no longer recommend the Chassisworks product line.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheJDMan (Post 559560)

That is one nice '68. I had a '68 when I was just 19 with a 327 and loved that car. So I definitely can relate to how nice your ride looks. I'm glad that it's been a positive experience with DSE. I've seen some mentions of an issue with turn radius, what's been your experience? What size tires are you running?

Chassisworks front clip

I've been wondering why chassisworks only has a single front cross-member when nearly all other designs have two (thought size varies). Dipped - has your experience been that you haven't noticed any lack of torsional rigidity with your setup. What engine are you running with it? Tire sizes?
Thanks
Rod

Total suspension

I would not just focus solely on the front subframe only. These suspensions perform better and are easier to tune if you have matching front and rear components. It is easier for the suspension manufactures to assist in precise tuning when you are not mixing and matching company A with company B. That being said I would also pay close attention to what subs have the hidden costs such a having to switch from a type 1 to a type 2 steering pump for the rack, transmission mounts, ect... Look at alignment specs, which allow more adjustability with front end geometry such as the static camber, caster, and everything else Ron Sutton discusses in detail in the above threads.

Evan

I have been looking at rear suspensions also, but decided to find out reactions to the front first. Yes, the matching of front and rear will make it easier for the source (DSE, AME, Chassisworks, etc) to help tune the whole vehicle based on feedback from the customer. I feel that looking at the suspension tuning in the way of the alignment specs is something I'm going to start on Monday making phone calls to all the ones that are on my short list. I'm fortunate that all the vendors that I've narrowed it down to have a rear suspension package that dumps leaf springs. Great in their day for cost savings, but modern times has shown us a better way.

Thanks for the advice of all of you,
Rod

Quote:

Originally Posted by HBRod (Post 559840)

I've been wondering why chassisworks only has a single front cross-member when nearly all other designs have two (thought size varies).

Hi Rod,
We only use one front crossmember because that's all it needs. Our frame is super strong. The crossmember is made from mandrel-bent .120 wall thickness 4x2 steel. Our motor mount standoffs are also different from what you typically see and the engine essentially forms a stressed member in this type of mounting. The only car that comes to my mind that had two crossmembers stock was the '67-'69 because GM couldn't figure out how to build it cheap enough AND strong enough to have just one. Apparently they figured it out when they built the '57 Chevy but forgot after designing the Chevelle. Oh, but remembered by the time the '70 came out. :lol:

Most of the stress in the frame during a handling exercise is front to back under braking. Our rails are the strongest on the market partially due to their interlocking plate construction.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HBRod (Post 560070)

I'm going to start on Monday making phone calls to all the ones that are on my short list.

I know that we were absolutely hammered on the phones today. I'm sure most of us were. Middle to later in the week is usually best for in-depth conversations.

I hope that's helpful information.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregWeld (Post 558967)

All of these "choices" are good.... but it really comes down to wallet size... and how much performance (i.e, how competitive do you really want to be) you think you can crank out.

Driver is the bigger factor by a factor of 10 when it comes to "performance". You can buy all the parts you want - and some gal or guy puts the spank on you and they do it with a stock sub frame and monroe shocks and drum brakes.

I've installed the Art Morrison chassis...Art is a friend and it's local here to me. It worked fantastically.

I've installed Art Morrison rear end kits... Stuff worked and performed fantastically,

I've installed TCI front subframe and it works fantastically -- looked correct for the install.. was well built. And they actually do race their cars with their stuff... Sal is at most all of the big events that Lat G'rs follow and he's always right up there in the standings.

SpeedTech's stuff works fantastically - is well built - is now here in the USA... and their performance at events is usually in the top 5 or 10 if not higher.

What you're going to find with these Subs is that it's probably going to be much more about the total of the components you're choosing... headers - steering racks - placement - etc. They all attach to the same factory locations.... so they aren't going to add stiffness to the entire car unless you start to build in cages and down bars etc. which is what I'd do regardless of which sub you choose.

For a street driven car -- there are suspension specs that need to be considered in order to make it drivable... the track is a completely different spec if you really want to be dialed in... so make sure those specs are doable in your sub and how easy are they doable if you're the kind of guy that wants to make changes like that.

Also -- what size tire can you get under the car -- and which sub will accommodate that choice. Some subs are pinched up front to allow a far larger tire choice. You'd be plenty pissed if you chose a sub that won't work with the tire wheel combo you're thinking about.

People mention Scott's sub -- they're talking about Scott Mock.

Don't forget there's also Chris Alston and his race stuff... they don't just build drag race stuff anymore. All of the suspension on my race Mustang is from their TCP division. Here's just one example of a new product they have out. http://www.cachassisworks.com/cac_pr...-69Camaro.html

There's so many choices out there -- and my feeling is you can't go wrong with any of them --- but it's a combo deal. The combo of everything you're going to choose and how it's all put together.... and the combo of your wallet size and your desire to go how far with the build.

If you just want a better handling car up front - you could just do the Guldstrand mod.. but you want rack and pinion... and to me - that's a good choice. Rack and pinion isn't just the handling it's about the clearance issue of not having the steering box cranked up against the driver side header.

This "best sub" argument (discussion) is like asking which tire is best... best for what... can you drive to the tires limits? More importantly - can you catch the car if you drive over the tires limits! Whats the trade offs - noisy - wears out quickly - costs a fortune - won't work in the wet... size for the wheel you want to run.... There's so many good choices.... but there's so many tradeoffs that have to be considered. For my Lotus 2 Eleven - I have three sets of wheels with three different sets of tires mounted up... People aren't going to do that for a "street car" and one or two auto X events per year... And there are people that can blow thru a complete set of tires at one event... so are you prepared to buy another $1500 or $2000 set of tires a year? Depends on which tire you choose and how competitive you want to be.

So think about the sub -- the motor choice - header availability - oil pans - tire and wheel combo - sub frame connectors - bolt in or weld in? There's all these things to consider that are probably every bit as important to the overall choice.

Great post Greg, next question...blonde or brunette ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by cluxford (Post 560490)

Great post Greg, next question...blonde or brunette ?

Dude -- That's so F'n' easy to make that decision.....

BOTH!!

LOL